Posted by td @ 07/12/2002 11:37 AM PST

I purpously asked for five movies because I knew it would be hard to come up with five in the last two years. In the seventies (we ALL sound like old cockers now) you could come up with five excellent movies in a six-month period for most any year. Even in the eighties one had a shot at five excellent movies in a two-year period. You can see it on the Internet - see the problem instantly - all they talk about are film grosses. That's become the most important topic of discussion on film newsgroups. WHO CARES? It used to be that only people who got the trades knew what films were grossing - people in the industry. Now, every twelve year old is ONLY concerned about what a film's opening weekend gross is - it's just disgusting. How can art flourish in such an atmosphere. Obviously art and commerce in the film business can co-exist - because studios thrived and survived by turning out wonderful films from wonderful and interesting filmmakers in every decade and they did it without the aid of the Internet and without every pimple-faced little pre-pubescent know-it-all worrying about box-office grosses. I just dread going to the movies today - because the fact is, with rare exceptions, they all sound the same, they all look the same, they all feel the same, and the actors are interchangable. One movie with a "twist" comes out, and then EVERY movie that follows it has to have six MORE twists. Just telling the simplest story seems beyond most filmmakers today, and sadly that includes some of our golden oldie filmmakers, who seem to be floundering, trying to be "with it" (only here at haineshisway.com can you be with it), trying to pander to an audience whose likes change from minute to minute. It's all flavor of the minute stuff and it's disheartening. I would HATE to be a child in this new millenium - where they don't have a chance to be CHILDREN. Where their brains are force-fed everything and they don't have a chance to discover and explore. A world of toilet-locks and over-protection and the lowest common demonitor. A world, forgive me, where parents buy their ten-year-old daughters THONG underwear. I don't blame the kids - I blame the adults who have allowed this to happen. It's shameful and it's pitiful and what in tarnation am I doing on this high horse? I am on a soap box sitting on a high horse, just blathering away like some old fuddy-duddy ("Why when I was your age" "When you was my age? You was never my age!" West Side Story) - next thing you know, drool will be pouring out of my mouth. I shall go back to the quietude of my sofa now.

Posted by bk @ 07/12/2002 11:45 AM PST

Memento, Gosford Park, A Beautiful Mind, Jimmy Neutron and Lilo & Stitch (the latter two in honor of my kids). All of them refused to follow the rote of any given genre. Rote-following is the problem with most films these days.

Posted by JMK @ 07/12/2002 11:50 AM PST

My top 5 over the past 2 years was really hard to come up with (not only because so few movies deserve that honor, but also because my memory of films I saw over the past 2 years has faded).

Offhand:
Kissing Jessica Stein
Men of Honor
Blow
Shrek
Memento

As for Steven Spielberg and movies that are underrated - I would have to say one of my all-time favorite films of his (and in general) is Empire of the Sun (which also features one of my favorite movie scores of all time)

BK -- any opinions of Empire or it's score?

Posted by Craig @ 07/12/2002 12:58 PM PST

td
A challenging question: what
is a PERFECT movie ??

I believe perfection, like
beauty, is in the eye of the
beholder.....in some ways....

BK, I agree with you; "good"
movies are hard to come
these days ! I don't go to
movies like I used to do, but
some of my favorites are
GOSFORD PARK
definitely LA CONFIDENTIAL
BILLY ELLIOTT -- i know, that
is a British production, but the
kid actor was excellent, and
the story would make a great
musical, I think....
and some Woody Allen
comedies !!!!! I know, I know,
we French have a fondness for
Woody, and you Americans
have to despise him !!! Go
figure why ?
But a man who has Goldie
Hawn float into the air along
the river Seine ( so unexpected
and so moving ! "Everybody
Says "I Love You" ") can't be
that bad !....
And NO, not all French people
go gaga over Jerry Lewis ; I
guess we always thought he
is a human Bugs Bunny, and
we love bunnies.....

Posted by francois @ 07/12/2002 01:07 PM PST

"Gosford Park"
"Moulin Rouge" (! Just for its sheer audacity, not to mention I outright loved it)!
"A.I."
"The Sixth Sense" (I loved this one, but found "Unbreakable" unimpressive)
"Lord of the Rings"

(and I'm exceedingly hard-pressed to think of a second five)

Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 07/12/2002 01:13 PM PST

It's funny that when pressed to come up with five films in the last two years--most posters are mentioning films that fall out of the timeframe--LA Confidential (5 years ago!) for example. As for Lilo And Stitch, which I found repellent, my daughter's review was "Why did they steal the stories from The Iron Giant and ET?" A good question, and we know the answer don't we? As for Elvis, what does he have to do with the price of fish?

Posted by Nick Redman @ 07/12/2002 01:20 PM PST

Our friends at The Sondheim Review have sent me an announcement:

Playbill Online reports that Stephen Sondheim will be profiled on the "CBS
News Sunday Morning" program this Sunday morning, July 14.

The program is scheduled to run from 9:00 am to 10:30 am New York time, but
check your local listings.

Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 07/12/2002 01:23 PM PST

Our friend Nick Redman asks an excellent question.

In my case, although I tried to cite films of the past two years, the truth is I do not "go" to the movies any longer. It's the rare film treat (like "Lord of the Rings") that I will go to see, usually in a late performance (11 p.m. showing or something like it where there are few kids and oldsters).

It is not the event it used to be. Not the friendly escape. I attract every soul which burrows down to the bottom of his popcorn, the spirit which "slowly" unwraps the candy they've bought as though a slow tear is less noise than a quick rip, or the individual who either must repeat everything that was said for his deaf wife or who repeats everything one of the characted said as a question.

Then, there's the individual who sees the back of my chair as his or her personal knee rest even when the seat is rocker style, or who has to grab the back of my seat, along with part of my shoulder, to pull their carcass up out of their seat. This also happens on airplanes!

Those personal fribbles, plus the inordinately bad sound levels that plague theaters today make me into a crazy person.

I am much happier sitting at home watching my DVDs. I never have to abandon my chair in search of one away from a talker, sniffler, burrower, wrapper peeler or chair molester.

Thus, if our DVD collection hasn't been updated with the truly recent films, we don't have much to offer when it comes to listing even as few as five excellent films for such a short period of time.

Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 07/12/2002 01:33 PM PST

Very interesting posts today. What's most interesting is that while I enjoyed some of the films on your "great" lists, I wouldn't say that any of them stack up against the real greats, the masterpieces. I mean, I thoroughly enjoyed Memento, and I liked The Sixth Sense, but I just don't know if they stack up against what I consider to be truly great films. So, that is what's intriguing to me - that they may be great NOW because they are so far above all the rest of the crap that's being made.

Now, you must all hie your various and sundried selves over to www.dvdlaunch.com, where you will find a rave review of Nudie Musical, as well as an interview with my very own self. The interview is a lot of fun, so check it out. When you're through there, then hie your various and sundried selves over to www.dvdfile.com and read their interesting review, which I enjoyed.

Posted by bk @ 07/12/2002 02:24 PM PST

Re: Nick Redman's daughter's comment about "Lilo and Stitch": Truth be known, Stitch (the character) was in development long before the film of "Iron Giant" was released. Personally, I found "Lilo and Stitch" wonderfully fun and original. But our grandson didn't relate to any of the film, because he doesn't know anyone from a broken family. (Lucky guy.)

Re: Vin Diesel. His best performance on film to date is the aforementioned "Iron Giant," as same. Something about that low gravelly voice of his. Physically...well, who needs Albert Schweitzer when the lights 'r low? (Something about that low gravelly voice of his.)

I'll agree with most of the above on the excelence of "Sixth Sense," and am looking forward to Shyamalan's next feature, "Signs." I'm hard-pressed to come up with any kind of list of films from the last five years, however. Burton's "Sleepy Hollow" struck me as well-done. "The Matrix" had originality in spades. But I'm having trouble including "Toy Story 2" without the original "Toy Story," which falls outside our five-year-plan.

No, wait, I forgot, it's five films in the last TWO years. Well, that's just impossible.

That having been said, my nominee for what is wrong with films today is: THE CRITICS! You know the guys I mean, the self-important ones who get all jaded and say "It's not as good as..." or "It's exactly like (fill in the blank)" or "He passed his prime when he was toilet trained." Unfortunately, when new films get made, just to play things safe, they're carbon copies of what's been done before, in order to appease these critics, because if the criticisms are so blatantly obvious, then the critics themselves are the ones who aren't being original, right?

Posted by S. Woody White @ 07/12/2002 02:40 PM PST

I guess I have to respectfully disagree with Bruce's contention that there aren't many "good" or "excellent" movies being made today (both terms are so subjective)....I can think of plenty of films that I found "excellent" or "good" in the past couple of years (many have already been mentioned -- although, IMHO, how anyone could place Shrek or A.I. on that list is baffling). If you look at percentages, I would venture to say that there are probably a higher percentage of "excellent/good" movies being made now than in the past. Let's not forget that in 1941, for every Citizen Kane or How Green Was My Valley, there were probably hundreds of A and B list films being released by the major Hollywood studios that would never be considered "excellent" or "good."

Posted by Donald @ 07/12/2002 02:41 PM PST

Well, our very own Donald Feltham must be one of those "cockeyed optimists" I keep hearing about. Donald of course has a point about the year 1941 throwing up a few clunkers--in fact 1,728 movies were produced by the studios in that twelve month period. Among them were: Sergeant York, Ball Of Fire, The Little Foxes, The Lady Eve, The Maltese Falcon, Suspicion, All That Money Can Buy,
Here Comes Mr Jordan, Dr Jekyll And Mr Hyde, Sun Valley Serenade, That Hamilton Woman, Dumbo, Lady Be Good, The Sea Wolf, A Yank In The RAF, Louisiana Purchase, The Chocolate Soldier, Blues In The Night, Buck Privates, You'll Never Get Rich, The Strawberry Blonde,
The Great Lie and Hold back The Dawn. No movie made in 2002 will be as memorable in 2063 as any one of those pictures, and in fact Donald will probably be the only person watching movies in 2063.

Oh, and to S. Woody White: Wasn't The Iron Giant based on a book by ted Hughes published a couple of decades ago?

Posted by Nick Redman @ 07/12/2002 03:11 PM PST

Just leaving the office, so I can't go into details, but a list of movies I could watch over and over again include:

1. The Insider
2. Happiness
3. State and Main
4. Return to Paradise (almost exclusively for Anne Heche's Oscar-worthy performance)
5. Shrek

Posted by Robert Armin @ 07/12/2002 03:17 PM PST

I happen to be a huge fan of classic films and have seen every single one of the 1941 films mentioned by Mr Redman, but he simply proves my point....including the two films I named, we have 25 films from 1941 out of 1,728 released by Hollywood that year....not a great percentage (and I would argue that you would be hard pressed to find many film buffs or historians that would include the '41 version of Jekyll & Hyde, That Hamilton Woman or The Chocolate Soldier as examples of an excellent or good film) and I again would venture a guess that the percentage of good or excellent films released in recent years is probably higher. Will any of the films released in 2002 be as memorable as those released in 1941 as asserted by Mr Redman? I have no idea, but I would ask...does it really matter? I bet if you took our list of 25 1941 films to any multiplex across the country and asked your typical American moviegoer (not people who post on websites like this one) to name the movies he or she had seen, you would probably find that the overwhelming majority had never seen any of then and could really care less. Movies are made for contemporary audiences to make money for big corporations -- plain and simple. Personally, I enjoy going to the movies and find plenty of films (both big studio releases and small independents) to satisfy me. I also love classic films and have hundreds in my video collection, but I do get so tired of classic film lovers who consistently moan and groan about the current state of movies -- blah, blah, blah -- I say, if you don't like what's playing, then don't go.

Posted by Donald @ 07/12/2002 03:42 PM PST

Lord Of The Rings
The Shipping News
Billy Elliot
Gosford Park
Chocolat

I thought all the above worthy and I did enjoy Minority Report.

Perhaps I need to look back after another five years and see if the above mentioned really stand up. I certainly could not include the Star Wars episodes.

I too think there is little attempt to assume the audience had any intelligence left at all. So many films are out there with the assumption that we can't think at all. At least the UK can still turn out their Billy Elliots, Brassed Off and Full Monty etc. No wonder "Moulin Rouge" was so well received by many - at least we were challenged. Tastes are certainly individual with Spielberg - I thought Empire Of the Sun was the most disappointing of his films - I have blocked it out - I disliked the child character. I can't understand why "The Others" get any support - Did these people not see Deborah Kerr in "The Innocents"?

I may be missing for the next two weeks - I am returning to work after retiring for 18 months. Suspect my students and teaching colleagues will not provide the same level of comedy and stimulation as the daily posts here. (I still hope to "tune in" often and at least I got to read BK's novel "BK" this week).

Posted by Tom from OZ @ 07/12/2002 03:45 PM PST

We love such spirited discourse, and of course we understand that everyone's opinions are their own and that opinions can differ wildly. I don't much care for movies these days and I do take Donald's advice - I simply don't go. As I've said, I certainly have enjoyed films in the last few years - I just find the majority of what I see to be awful moviemaking with awful writing and mediocre acting. Part of the problem today is that everything must be an event (not talking about indies here - although even those seem bloated to me), everything must make a new record, everything must be bigger and better than the last bigger and better film. It was different when the major studios released over a thousand films a year - there were not only the "event" films, there were films that played only a week but were still terrific, still excellent. There were b-movies which were sometimes better than tha a-movies. But today everything has to be BIG and IMPORTANT. And I'm sorry, but the majority of the films I've seen in the last two years (at least American films) have been inane, poorly written, filled with style over content, filled with excess, predictable and worst of all, every emotion and thought underlined with sound effects, cgi and music in a way that leaves no room for a person to have their own reactions - do you think it conceivable that a masterpiece like Rosemary's Baby or Chinatown could be made now? No. They would both be overblown obvious thrillers. Chinatown, for example, has about 22 minutes of music in it. If that same film were made today, it would have over an hour or more. I don't even remember my point anymore - but I certainly do understand all viewpoints on this subject, which is why I thought it would be an interesting topic of discussion. No one is right (except me) and no one is wrong - it's just all interesting.

Posted by bk @ 07/12/2002 03:58 PM PST

This was a lot harder than I thought. I went to IMDB just to job my memory and had to wade through a lot of crap and couldn't find anything to add to the list below.

Shrek
Best In Show
Chicken Run
Sordid Lives

and other favorites fall out of the 2 year range and they are

Sixth Sense
The Matrix
Trick

Posted by Michael Shayne @ 07/12/2002 04:13 PM PST

I can't think of any great films from the last few years. There are films I enjoyed, but I don't know if they were great.
I found "Memento" riveting (although I wouldn't say it was enjoyable. But extremely well done.)
I thought "Sixth Sense" was very good, and I fell for it all the way.
I found "Amelie" and "Object of My Affection" to be charming.

The closest I've come to great were rereleases of things like "E.T." and "Citizen Kane."

I thought "Moulin Rouge" was nothing more than an extended music video. Frothy and pretty to look at for a few minutes, but nopthing more. (sorry to disagree). Granted there are quite a few films I have not seen and hope to. I've heard "Iris" was brilliant but haven't seen it. Was "Gods and Monsters" within the last 5 years? Brilliantly done and some finally executed performances-- but great? I don't know.

Posted by Kerry @ 07/12/2002 04:14 PM PST

Dear Mr. Kimmel,

Kindly do NOT kick me in the shins!
Miss Katharine Hepburn didn't kick me in the shins!
Many other celebrities have not kicked me in the shins, I mean, really, Mrs. James Brolin certainly didn't, nor did Tom Cruise or his paramour du jour, Penelope Cruz.
If I ask a question, I do not expect to be kicked in the shins. That would be quite unseemly, and I might have the gals from THE VIEW come over a bitch-slap you!
A fan of interviews, and THE FIRST NUDIE MUSICAL,

bw

Posted by Barbara Walters @ 07/12/2002 04:48 PM PST

Nick: The film "The Iron Giant" is indeed based on the book "The Iron Giant," by Ted Hughes, but loosely. Hughes' book came out in '68, and ended with a battle between the Iron Giant and a space bat/dragon metphor for the whole Cold War. There is no evidence that Chris Sanders was influenced by Hughes' creation when Sanders created Stitch. They just happen to be two creatures from other worlds who come to ours.

Which, in a way, brings us back to my complaint about critics, where if there is any comparison to be made, even coincidentally, they drive it in like a stake through the heart. It's rather like saying that any fantasy world is a rip-off on "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz." Or that Lilo's parents having died prior to the story's beginning is an homage to Sylvia Plath.

Posted by S. Woody White @ 07/12/2002 04:52 PM PST

BK - thanks for the plug for the site (www.dvdlaunch.com) and the review which may be found at http://www.dvdlaunch.com/firstnudiemusicalse.html

Yes, it is a rave! And upon re-reading, I find it to be a very honest review.
Thanks again for the interview, too!

Posted by td @ 07/12/2002 05:40 PM PST

I could list more films I liked, but I would still hesitate to call them great:

Shrek
Kissing Jessica Stein
Best of Show
Waiting for Guffman (was this in the last five years?)
Chicken Run
First Wives Club (predictable but still fun)
No more lists for now.

Posted by Kerry @ 07/12/2002 08:21 PM PST

I initially wanted to excuse myself from this discussion, when I saw that BK called "AI" excellent. Not only did I find "AI" to be one of the worst films I saw in the past two years, but one of the worst in the past twenty years. I believe that Spielberg is one of Hollywood's most gifted directors, but this was a serious misstep.

Likewise, how could anyone have included "Shrek" (Shrek!!) as an excellent film??!!

I generally don't venture into the theatre (i.e. cineplex), as I don't enjoy the experience. I prefer to watch films at home, and I am selective about which films I will rent. I rarely find any that I would rate as 'excellent', though there are many that I enjoy.

I agree that "Memento" was genuinely enjoyable film, with plenty of clever twists, told in a unique style. Probably the best film I saw last year.

"Sixth Sense" was a gimmick film, and if you figure out the gimmick in the first ten minutes (as I did), I suppose it isn't nearly as enjoyable.

"Lord of the Rings" had incredible special effects, and ran about an hour too long.

As for 1941, I would suggest that those who fondly recall the great films of yesteryear have never actually seen those films. While there are some excellent 'classic' films, there are far more that we pretend to fondly remember, but are disappointed when we actually take a moment to sit down and watch. Have a look at the list posted by Nick Redman, and ask yourself how many of those films you have seen, and of those how many would you seriously rate as 'excellent'? I would wager not many.

This type of selective nostalgia is even more prevalent on Broadway. How often do we hear about the 'good ole days' of the Great White Way, when all the great musicals opened? Now try this: take any given year in the 1950s and see what musicals were playing, and compare against any year in the 1990s. Is there really that significant a difference? (Maybe this could be a topic for discussion tomorrow...?)

Posted by Dave @ 07/12/2002 10:38 PM PST

I have purposefully (or however you spell it) not read anyone else's list yet, but I love this topic.

However, I really can't think in terms of the past two years, so I think I may have to expand the time frame a bit...

The Others
You've Got Mail (it's a romantic comedy. if it had been made in black and white and had two old stars in it instead of two new stars, it would be hailed as a classic)
Remains of the Day (okay, going a bit far back, but it is a classic...)
Vanilla Sky (I haven't seen Open Your Eyes, so if it's a rip off, I wouldn't know. But I thought it intriguing and I liked the direction...)
Wide Awake (the unknown M. Night Shyamalan -or however you spell it- movie)

Okay. Why is the quality going down? Money, probably, and because, as with all art, you deviate and deviate away from what it was when it began, you make allowances and the standards get lower, just like everything else. Still, as I sort of said with You've Got Mail, there is a lot of hostility toward movies now from the snobby set (myself included in that). The real point of movies is entertainment and story telling. Most of the time it is infected with toilet humor or whatever other gimmick which has just gotten old and/or disgusting. However, there are movies that come along that are really good, fun, light, enjoyable films. However, if every time we see a movie we are comparing it to Spencer Tracy or Alfred Hitchcock or whoever, of course we aren't going to like it. Spence and Al are both dead and not making films anymore. Different people are doing it, so they're going to be different. Of course not always as good, but sometimes not as bad as we try to make them out to be.

If any of that made sense, I will be happy. Sorry if it was ranting, I have been packing and editing things all day for the Young Playwrighting Camp, where I will frolic with the Young Playwrights...

Ta ta (possibly for the week, because I have no clue about internet access...)

Posted by Lolita @ 07/12/2002 10:46 PM PST

Dave, it's fine for you to not like AI just as it's fine for me to think it quite good. That's what makes horse racing. As to selective nostalgia - I don't think I suffer from that malady at all - I most certainly can pick quite a few films off Nick's list which I feel are excellent and which hold up as well as any. I can do that for practically any year in any decade, up through 1989, when it starts to get tough. I have no selective nostalgia when it comes to musicals. The nineties were not a great time for musicals - there were some good and there were lots bad. Same with most decades, but because there were many many more new musicals opening every season the chances of winners was much higher. It's all subjective, of course, and what makes topics of discussion interesting - only difference being that unlike Usenet, the discussions here are fun and civil.

Posted by bk @ 07/12/2002 11:05 PM PST

I always thought that 1939 was supposed to be the best year for films. Below is a list of films released in 1939 that I've seen over the years. Many are considered classics and I am not sure if they all hold up.

Babes in Arms
Bachelor Mother
Beau Geste
Broadway Serenade
Congessions of a Nazi Spy
Dark Victory
Destry Rides Again
Each Dawn I Die
Five Came BAck
Flying Deuces
Four Feathers
Gone With the Wind
Goodbye Mr. Chips
Hounds of the BAskerville
Hunchback of Notre Dame
Juarez
Little Princess
Man In the Iron Mask
Ninotchka
Only Angels Have Wings
Private Lives of Elizabeth & Essex
Rose of Washington*
Stagecoach
Stanley and Livingston
Story of Alexander Graham Bell
Story of Vernon and Irene Castle
Tevye
Wizard Of Oz
The Women
Wuthering Heights
You Can't Cheat An Honst Man

* really should have been called The Fanny Brice Story, but that's a different story.

and these are not classics but had their place:

Our Gang series of shorts
three Blondie films
Buck Rogers Serial
two Buldof Drummond films
two Doctor Kildare films
three Charlie Chan films
Hardy Family Series
Mr. Moto series
Laurel and Hardy film
cartoons

Posted by Michael Shayne @ 07/13/2002 05:03 AM PST

I knew I would miss some.

Gunga Din
Intemezzo
Love Affair
Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
Of Mice and Men
The Rains Came
Young Mr. Lincoln

Posted by Michael Shayne @ 07/13/2002 05:12 AM PST

I'm coming in under the wire here; it's really Saturday already, but here goes:
GOSFORD PARK
BILLY ELLIOTT
BEFORE NIGHT FALLS
ALMOST FAMOUS
GHOST WORLD
MEMENTO
In addition to fine performances, excellent production values and innovative direction, none of the above assume that their audiences are idiots nor do they appear in hasty reach of that one golden goal --as Donald pointed out-- of making pots of money for a big parent corporation. Runners up would included O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU, BLACK HAWK DOWN, the very disturbing L.I.E., and FOLLOWING.
(And A PS to our host: if I were allowed a few more runners-up, it would be a 3-way tie between PITCH BLACK, THE BOILER ROOM and THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS, all starring the magnificent Vin Diesel. Surely you liked him in SAVING PRIVATE RYAN??)
I also appreciate Tom's comment about THE OTHERS. It provided a nice way so spend a few hours in front of the tv, as the DVD is quite good. And any film that brings us the fine but underrated Christoper Eccleston and marvelous Fionnula Flanagan can't be all that bad. However, the thrills were a bit on the hokey side and its leading lady was a tad too shrill. I must agree with Tom: hasn't anyone seen the great Deborah Kerr in the equally great THE INNOCENTS? One more comment about THE OTHERS: drop the "S" and you have THE OTHER, a nifty little shocker from 1972 featuring Uta Hagen in a rare screen appearance (and Portia Nelso in a supporting role)
And speaking of 972, now THAT was a year for movies: CABARET, THE GODFATHER, SOUNDER, CRIES AND WHISPERS, THE DISCREET CHARM OF THE BOURGEOISIE, THE EMIGRANTS, DELIVERANCE and one of my favorite bad movies all time: THE POSEIDON ADVENTURE.

Posted by Tim H. @ 07/13/2002 06:31 AM PST

First, thanks to td for correcting me yesterday on Eric Blau's name. I wrote Mark Blau. I must have been thinking of Mr. Ely Bakalor.

------------------------------

My Joe and I haven't been in a movie theatre in literally years. Call us cheap, but we neither buy nor rent movies. We wait till they come onto cable and tape the ones we want to see again.

On one viewing, I found Memento more than intriguing, a film that demands repeated viewing for understanding. The backwards-in-time idea gives the viewer a similar experience to that of the protagonist. But my Joe won't be seeing it again. His disease (Eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome, known affectionately to its friends as EMS) has caused partial short-term memory loss, and he found this film not a little disturbing.

Shrek would definitely go on my list.

But many of the movies we watch repeatedly are guilty pleasures that are in no way, shape, or form great or even good.

I mean, I actually enjoy the travesty of The Haunting, although I know it is a bloated perversion of Shirley Jackson's story and the Julie Harris film. In fact, if you watch closely in the final scenes where the house is turning digital and Hugh-Crane-as-devil is sucking up the children's souls or whatever, you will see Shirley Jackson turning in her grave. Also Lili Taylor has one of the classic worst lines in modern filmdom: "It's all about family."

No. I'm not going to answer the question. I don't think you can judge greatness without a few years perspective.

As to BK's rant on the state of film today, I was almost ready to join in.

And television, too. We looked at TV Guide last night, and there were "Best Celebrity Bodies", "Sexiest Hip-Hop Videos", and a new series with hidden cameras including a hospital courier who drops human livers. Blech! And there is American Movie Classics showing Speed (1994). How long to become a classic? TV Guide says come October AMC will shelve their library of "oldies" to become more "contemporary". Aaaargh!

But we are not here to rant. We are here to put on pointy party hats and dance the Pudding Dance and say how absolutely charmed I was by The First Nudie Musical--which will wait for a later post. I'm still working my way through the comentaries and haven't found any Easter eggs yet. That means, of course, that I don't get to eat chopped liver.

Posted by William F. Orr @ 07/13/2002 08:17 AM PST

Bruce,

I totally respect your right to enjoy "AI". As Peter Filichia is fond of saying, 'I'd rather you enjoy yourself than agree with me.'

Certainly any assessment of what makes a great film (book, play, painting,etc.) is bound to be subjective. Which is what makes a discussion such as this one interesting. With no objective standard, we will never all agree on what constitutes a great or excellent film. But that also undermines the argument that the quality of films is deteriorating, doesn't it?

Getting back to the comparison of musicals of the "Golder Era" to those of the Contemporary Era, I think that in fairness we should try to compare apples to apples. The economics of Broadway has radically altered the nature of how and where musicals are produced. If we were to truly compare the musicals produced in a given decade, we should open up the discussion to include off-Broadway and the regional theatres. There are many musicals that only play in regional theatres, or close out of town, that in another era would have played for a full season on the strip, and returned their investment. That just couldn't happen today, and it has nothing to do with the quality of the material.

I agree that the 1990's were a weak decade for *Broadway* (though there were certainly a number of great shows that opened during those years), but what about the musical theatre at large?

Posted by Dave @ 07/13/2002 09:12 AM PST

Happy 250th bk’s notes II.

It would have been difficult enough to name two truly excellent motion pictures from the last five years—even more difficult to name five truly excellent motion pictures from the last two years. The biggest problem with most motion pictures today is that so many are so poorly written and poorly directed. Most motion pictures made today are stupid. Most Hollywood films are like politicians—trying to be all things to all people, but ending up being nothing to anyone. They fear perspective and point of view. Another problem is that audiences collectively seem no longer too think; they allow themselves to be pleased too easily, too often. Sometimes it seems that all a motion picture need do to succeed is to be different from the viewer’s commute to work.

I agree with Ben, at least in terms of preferring live theatre to film, although bad theatre is always unseemly. I agree with Nick Redman that there cannot possibly be five movies made in the last two years that are truly excellent. I agree with S. Woody White that Vin Diesel is hot, but I cannot recall having seen him on film. Vin Diesel may be smarter than White thinks he is. If I were Katharine Hepburn, I would not have kicked Barbara Walters in the shins, but I would have rapped her with my walking stick. Also, I find Penelope Cruz overwhelmingly unappealingly and repulsive. I love Uta Hagen’s work, so I must add The Other (1972) to my list of motion pictures to see.

Excellent motion pictures from recent years: American Psycho; Chocolat; Cruel Intentions; Eyes Wide Shut; Ice Storm, The (1997); Limbo (1999); Saving Private Ryan; Small Time Crooks.

Not recent, but unmistakably excellent: Cabaret (1972); Chinatown (1974); Citizen Kane (1941); Dark Victory (1939); E.T.—The Extra-terrestrial (1982); Godfather, The (1972); Rosemary’s Baby (1968); Story of Alexander Graham Bell, The (1939); Wizard of Oz, The (1939).

[Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Chinatown might make a good double feature.]

I am glad I saw: Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle, The—for purely personal reasons, not because it was good; American Psycho—twisted and funny; Changing Lanes—not at all the movie I thought it would be, a rare surprise; Chocolat—imperfect, not profound, but sweet, yet not too sweet; Cruel Intentions—Les Liaisons Dangereuses told through contemporary Manhattan youth—deliciously mean-spirited; Eyes Wide Shut—under-rated, disturbing—believe it or not, it spoke to my own experiences in New York City; First Wives Club—a guilty pleasure, better than anticipated, with a great cast; Gods and Monsters; Gosford Park—any Robert Altman is better than almost anything else, excellent cast, excellent production design; Hannibal—briefly diverting, no more, should have been better; Happiness—brave and challenging, if disturbing; Hedwig and the Angry Inch—better than the stage show, but still slight—as much as I love Andrea Martin, Phyllis Stein should have remained off-screen; Heist—David Mamet in so-so form, but better than most; Importance of Being Earnest, The—great Wilde, excellent cast; Legally Blonde—loved Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Coolidge and the doggie; Monsters, Inc.—too long, but very cute, adorable, really—how could you not love Boo, Kitty, and Mike Wazowski?; Moulin Rouge—flawed, derivative, featuring an unimpressive central performance, but heart-felt and perhaps trying to break new ground, even if unsuccessfully; My Best Friend’s Wedding—terrible central performance from Julia Roberts, but I enjoyed the rest of the movie—Rupert Everett, Cameron Diaz, and Dermot Mulroney were delightful, if only they had been given a lead actor with whom to work; Of Mice and Men—Gary Sinise’s excellent production; Requiem for a Dream—flawed, disturbing, mostly excellent cast; Saving Private Ryan—excellent; Small Time Crooks—under-rated, great cast, including Tracey Ullman and Elaine Stritch—hysterically funny Elaine May; State and Main—David Mamet in good form—if only he would write better and bigger roles for Patti LuPone.

I would like to see: Amelie; Anniversary Party, The; Best in Show; Billy Elliot; Black Hawk Down; Brassed Off; Dr. T & the Women; Ghost World; Gone With the Wind; Iron Giant, The; Kissing Jessica Stein; Lord of the Rings; Pitch Black; Remains of the Day; Toy Story 2; Waiting for Guffman.

I have not cared to see: Almost Famous; American Pie; Beautiful Mind, A; Before Night Falls; Blow; Boiler Room, The; Bread, My Sweet, The; Chicken Run; Dude, Where’s My Car?; Fast and the Furious, The—I wonder if it will be followed by The Slow and the Spurious; Gladiator; Insider, The; Jimmy Neutron; Joe Dirt; L.A. Confidential; Lilo & Stitch; Men of Honor; O Brother, Where Art Thou?; 102 Dalmatians; Others, The; Ravenous; Return to Paradise; Session 9; Shipping News, The; Shrek; Sleepy Hollow; What Women Want; X Files, The; You’ve Got Mail.

I wish I had not seen: Artificial Intelligence: AI—enormous disappointment, great production design except for the egregious recurrent abuse of the DreamWorksSKG logo over and over and over and over again—starts off strong then waffles and spins down the toilet; Curse of the Jade Scorpion, The—uninspired, bland, boring, unforgivable casting of lead female role; Don’t Say a Word—really wish they hadn’t; Empire of the Sun—great production design, bored the hell out of me when I saw it once in its original release; Full Monty, The—not bad, just not for me; Insomnia—odd title, put me right to sleep—great location, but obvious, dull, plodding; Lost in Space—lost in development; Matrix, The—yuck; Otnemem—yawn; Minority Report—great production design, well-directed—oops, forgot the story; Mission: Impossible and Mission: Impossible II—great television series, dreadful movies; Mothman Prophecies, The—a couple of successful moments of suspense, but otherwise a complete waste of time; Object of My Affection—since seeing it I refer to it as The Object of my Affliction—what a heinous and condescending screenplay—Wendy Wasserstein is a kind, sweet, funny person, but her writing always either annoys or bores; Panic Room—awful gets no worse than this one; Perfect Storm, The; Planet of the Apes—insipid, insulting, terrible; Reindeer Games; Riding in Cars With Boys—should have ridden with someone else; Royal Tenenbaums, The—they were kidding with this one, right? like Bialystock & Bloom?; Traffic—dumbed-down and at least a decade late; Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones: without merit; Trick—even though there were some nice moments between the two central characters, the rest of the movie is crap, especially Tori Spelling; Unbreakable—unbearable; Unfaithful—unnecessary—Olivier Martinez is delicious, and I appreciate Diane Lane continuing to stretch her range, but she needed better direction; Vanilla Sky—torture.

I do not know from: Open Your Eyes; Sordid Lives; Wide Awake.

With a quotation from Peter Filichia, what is next—one from Ken Mandelbaum?

Posted by freedunit @ 07/13/2002 10:08 AM PST