Replies: 32 Unseemly Comments
It's interesting to note that the work in progress is not really a work in progress. According to the second audio track that the first part of the film was completed that they actually took out some of the scenes and put in the pencil drawings and storyboards to make it look more like a work in progress. But it is still interesting.
There is some overlapping and repeating of documentary footage in the extra material. Some of the same stories are heard on the commentary track that are heard on in documenatries.
The Be Our Guest sequence as it was originally conceived is interesting.
I would have like a little more information on what they had to do to transfer it to IMAX.
There is no real need to see the original version as it is exactly like the special edition without The Human Again song and the extended end credits that they play an instrumental after the song finishes.
Found it interestng that Celine Dion did not record the French version of the end title verison of the title song.
One of the options that you have when watching the documentary you have the option to watch the individual segments or the whole thing. If you choose the play all choice there are blank moments inbetween each segment. A little annoying. It would have been nicer if it was seemless.
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it and this is what DVD are meant for!
Posted by Michael Shayne @ 10/13/2002 11:13 AM PST
PS. I forgot to say I was talking about the DVD of Beauty and the Beast
Posted by Michael Shayne @ 10/13/2002 11:14 AM PST
Well, Mr. BK, let me assure you that I read all your notes from beginning to end every day (including weekends) and I'm sure the majority of us, if not all, do too. Your musings are always amusing and upbeat and start (or end) my day on the right track. Thank you!
REGARDING BIRDS:
Does anybody know of any bird people who save birds nests from trees that are about to be cut down? We have an Italian Poplar tree that is over 50 years old and has been the birthing place for countless sparrows, mockingbirds and crows (brayers one and all!). Sadly, it needs to be cut down because the roots are uprooting the patio. We've had tree trimmers come to look at it and they all say "tough luck" to the birds nests that are in it. They just come down with the rest of the tree (which is about three stories high!) We can't personally retrieve the nests so we're hoping some bird lovers might do it for us and then replace the nests nearby in another tree. Anyone have any suggestions or experience with this sort of thing?
Posted by Donna - Cabaret West @ 10/13/2002 11:26 AM PST
To me the problem with "Saturday Night Fever" is that the supporting characters are all a lot more interesting than the Travolta character. It's not Travolta's performance... it's the script. Of course it can't compare to Travolta's performance opposite Lily Tomlin in "Moment By Moment". that film more than anything shows Lily's true love for Jane Wagner blinds her to the fact that Wagner can't write and she is always much better than the material Wagner writes for her.
A month or two ago someone mentioned on this here site that the Eisner Company was coming out with a deluxe DVD of SLEEPING BEAUTY. Was this person confusing his beauties with BEAUTY AND THE BEAST or is SLEEPING BEAUTY still in the works. I do know there will be three more Archive DVDs in December to go with the four from last year: Mickey Mouse in Black & White; Goofy; and a second "Behind the Scenes" volume. I suppose they are saving Donald for next year.
Can someone please tell me the exact title and author of the book about the witches of Oz that Stephen Schwartz is turning into a Kristen Chenowith vehicle? E-Mail me the inof or post it here. Thanks.
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 10/13/2002 11:38 AM PST
What happened to Disney after Beauty and the Beast?
Seems to me that the most significant event was the death of Howard Ashman. After all, who was it who revitalized the animated feature in the first place? And he did it with a Broadway sensibility. Unfortunately, since then, Disney has opted for more of a pop sensibility.
But the most perfect version of the title song is still Angela Landsbury's.
And returning to yesterday's discussion of Alan Mencken's "Her Pilgrim Soul" segment of Weird Romance: here's a trivia question a bit less convoluted than Bruce's. Where does the title "Her Pilgrim Soul" come from?
Posted by William F. Orr @ 10/13/2002 11:39 AM PST
With much admiration of, and tons of credit to, Howard Ashman, did you really mean "he" revitalized the animated feature?
I believe that credit goes to the Disney animators. Menken and Ashman gave these features an extraordinary dimension of sophistication that made them equally enchanting for adults and children. Ashman's lyrics, particularly, gave the characters an unheard-of-in-an-animated-film depth and wit.
Nothing was sadder than Ashman's death. And doesn't it show in "Aladdin's" lyrics -- his are clever and pithy, and the remainder ordinary. But Disney's animation continued apace -- "The Lion King" and "Pocahantas" and, for me, the one with the best "score" of them all, "The Hunchback of Notre Dame."
Ah, well, it's only an opinion, isn't it!
I slept in this morning until I looked at the clock and realized that morning was virtually gone. That'll teach me to stay up past midnight.
My "chat" awakened me at 7:45 a.m. demanding to be fed! You'd think that, after 18 years, I'd be used to this. But I'm NOT!
I have DVDs to watch, and to see what all this fuss is over Werner R. Heymann's music for "The Shop Around the Corner"!
By the way....I don't know how many of you have seen "The Lord of the Rings," but I'm about to watch it for a third time. For some reason, this film resonates with me. Must be because I read the trilogy annually for about 6 years.
Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 10/13/2002 01:04 PM PST
Oh boy! DVD Day at Haineshisway!
IMO, there will not be a better dvd release this year than BEAUTY AND THE BEAST. The execs obviously learned from the online complaints against some of the material on their first Platinum Edition, SNOW WHITE, and took it to heart, for BatB's features, commentaries and everything are all a vast improvement on what I thought could not be improved 9the SNatSD dvd).
"Human Again" is so seemlessly edited into the piece, that one would swear that it had ALWAYS been there.
The digital clean-up is amazing and astonishing - BK, if you still have your laserdisc, run and do an A/B comparison.
As for LotR: well, since August 6th, I have watched it probably ten times - and I'm not even reviewing it! I didn't see it in theaters, but the disc certainly made me regret that choice. LotR hooked me from the get-go, and I'm one of the few who hasn't read the trilogy...yet. But I got involved in a couple of the online Tolkien discussion groups after the initial viewing. The second film looks like it will be every bit as compelling and moving as the first.
Last night, I took in CURSE/NIGHT OF THE DEMON from Columbia. Stunning b & w transfer of a surprisingly Hitchcockian horror/suspense film from 1957. I watched only the British version, since the American release was shortened by about fourteen minutes...I'll find out later what those fourteen minutes entail.
In the mail this week, I received THE X FILES SEASON SIX, M*A*S*H's first two seasons screeners (sorry, BK, you're episode is NOT there for reviewing(!)), CURSE/NIGHT, THE RETURN OF THE VAMPIRE, BROTHERHOOD OF SATAN, GREASE, THE OBLONG BOX/SCREAM AND SCREAM AGAIN. So, if I'm reticent here at Haines...., you'll all know why.
Posted by td @ 10/13/2002 01:39 PM PST
Ron:
Well, maybe I used a bit of hyperbole, but yeah, I think he was a major part of the direction that "The Little Mermaid" took.
I had the pleasure to meet the man when God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater was being written and offer him some totally useless advice on a lyric. He had worse problems to deal with at the time, like Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Posted by William F. Orr @ 10/13/2002 01:39 PM PST
William - Her Pilgrim Soul comes from the W B Yeats' poem which is quoted in the musical - that's one of the points where I start to blubber. I can't remember exactly how it goes, but it's something like: But no one loved the pilgrim soul in you and loved the sorrow of your changing face.
Please correct me if I've got it wrong.
Posted by Allan @ 10/13/2002 02:44 PM PST
The name of the book is:
Wicked The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West
and it's written by
Gregory Maguire
He also wrote
Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister
Posted by Ben @ 10/13/2002 02:48 PM PST
At last Bk's bird gets around to singing something by Udell and Geld. They did have two very successful Broadway musicals and rarely get mentioned. Great pop writers. Quite a few songs for Brian Hyland and Gene Pitney plus R & B for Jackie Wilson and Country for Skeeter Davis. The Carpenters also sang one of their songs - "Hurting Each Other".
I have never seen "Purlie" or "Shenandoah" but the OBC records are interesting and have some gems.
My favourite Dr Who was Tom Baker
and yes William, Allan and I at least get to read the late posts.
Ron. I have watched Lord Of The Rings a few times and saw it twice at the movies - that is more than unusual for me. Cab't wait for the next film.
Posted by Tom Guest @ 10/13/2002 03:24 PM PST
To Tom:
Thanks for the e-mail. When I tried to reply it was returned marked "unsecured server" but at least I now have the info. Beside Ben's answer above I only got one other reply.
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 10/13/2002 04:18 PM PST
Hello All,
I just discovered the "joys" of ammonia. I moved into my new place about three months, and, lo and behold, I actually get to spend FOUR nights in a row here this week! Up until now, I've only had the luxury of two nights in a row. So... It's an "old" place, and for those of you familiar with the Fan District in Richmond, you know what I mean. Well, the kitchen floor has been driving me nuts - it just never seemed to get clean enough for me after mopping and Spic & Span-ing it. So, I went ahead and got out the bottle of ammonia and Voila! (I can't remember if the "a" should have an accent aigu or accent grave - sorry Francois - and pardon the lack of cedille). The floor practically changed colors. Needless to say, I'm very pleased with myself, and am about to head out to treat myself to dinner.
What am I, Heloise all of the sudden? Or Mary Ellen?
-Oh, I did have a flashback of sorts during my cleaning odyssey. Upon pouring the ammonia into the bucket, the vapors(!) brought back a child memory of once going through a first aid kit and wondering what an ammonia inhalant was... Well.. you can figure out the rest.
Weird Romance: One of my favorites too, and the second act also caught me off guard on first listen. I was so glad they released the vocal selections for it. *I will say I prefer the vocal selections that Warner Bros. releases since the piano parts are usually the real ones, and not some simplified "hard/standard" version. And they tend not be "scared" of songs in keys with more than four sharps or flats.
-Oh, and I had the chance to work with Sal Viviano (and his wife, Liz Larsen) when they did Sunday in the Park with George about five or six years ago. Sal had some great stories about getting that show on it's feet. *And they talked fondly of you, bk, and when they received their "early" copy of Lost in Boston IV - or was it III - they were kind enough to let me have a sneak preview of sorts.
Well, I'm off to dinner..
Oh, and, bk, I always read the notes.
Posted by Jose C. Simbulan @ 10/13/2002 05:05 PM PST
William Orr: Just finished watching "Beauty and the Beast" and found myself "astonished" to learn that Howard Ashman was Executive Producer.
I had NO idea the level of his involvement in the actual production of the feature beyond lyrics!!!
At any rate, I tip my hat. You wasted no hyperbole as I'm sure he contributed much more than I previously suspected to all the features with which he was involved!
LOTR: I'm so anticipating The Two Towers -- and I have not read a thing about what Jackson has done -- but as everyone who's read the books/seen the films know, Merry and Pippin abducted by Saruman's creatures and Frodo and Samwise are off to Mordor. I'm sure the latter two's exploits will be well realized, but I worry that we won't see a single Ent! I worry that the entire Ent section will be cut, as it was in the Bakshi travesty.
Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 10/13/2002 05:16 PM PST
Back to the B&tB DVD: In my silly rush to explore the second disc, I punched the "all" selection for the "Cogsworth and Lumiere" making-of bits. Well, it turns out this presents just the introductions to the various sections, each working in more detail on how the film was made. The introductions then appear elsewhere as another documentary, which is totally redundant, if quick. I live and learn.
A totally different area of life: yesterday der Brucer and I went to a presentation at the Long Beach Boarders store, where director Michael Michetti gave an overview of Stephen Sondheim's career. Michetti will be directing the International City Theater's production of Putting It Together, running from Nov. 5 to Dec. 8, and he appears to know what he's doing.
Well, the additional news is that Michetti will also be directing the West Coast Ensemble's production of Anyone Can Whistle early next year, opening February 21st. This alone sounds good, but the ADDITIONAL additional news is that Arthur Laurents and Stephen Sondheim have agreed to Michetti's proposed reworking of the book. Not only that, the reworked book will also be performed next year in London. So, any fans of ACW, we now have reason to celebrate world-wide! Break out the pointy hats and cheese slices! Toss those ham chunks in the air and catch them in your happy mouths! (But don't try to whistle with ham chunks in your mouth, the sound is terrible and the people nearby get sprayed with strange pink pieces, very embarrasing.)
Posted by S. Woody White @ 10/13/2002 05:25 PM PST
To all the Lord of the Ring lovers I would like to remind you that next month a special edition of the film will be released. The film will be a little more grittier and will be rated R instead of PG-13. I heard it will be 30 minutes of new footage.
Knowing that this one was coming out I waited for it instead of rushing to buy the earlier DVD release
These are the following additions to the film:
More time with the Hobbits including a musical number.
Extra scene further underscores the Hobbits sense of isolation and the growing realization that they can't ignore the outside world for much longer.
Frodo and Sam POV watching the elves going to the "Undying Land".
When the Hobbits are sleeping, Frodo is awakened by Aragorn's singing of an elvish tune that foreshadow's his relationship with Arwen.
More at Rivendell with Aragorn.
More on the departure of the Fellowship from Rivendel.
More in the Mines before the cave troll fight.
As the Fellowship leaves, Galadriel gives them each a personalized gift that will end up being critical to their future. Legolas gets a special bow, Sam gets some elvin rope that comes in handy when he faces a giant spider in The Two Towers.
Touching moment between Gimli and Galadriel.
More violence in the ending battle
Thefore based on the 30 minute additional material the running time will be 208 minutes
There willl be two releases:
The regular one as a 4 DVD set:
Four-disc Platinum Series Special Extended DVD Edition of The Lord of Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
New version of National Geographic Beyond the Movie: The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring DVD, with additional featurettes (Which actually makes it 5 DVDs)
Exclusive Argonath bookends sculpted by the film's visual effects artists
Exclusive Decipher trading cards
Special edition of the Lord of the Rings Fan Club official movie magazine
Packaging illustrated by famed artist Alan Lee
Special Extended DVD Edition of The Lord of Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring Discs 1-2: The Feature:
Unique version of the epic adventure with over 30 minutes of never-before-seen footage incorporated into the film and new music scored by Academy Award®-winning composer Howard Shore (approx. 208 minutes)
Four audio commentaries by director and writers, the design team, the production team, and the cast featuring more than 30 participants including Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, Elijah Wood, Ian McKellen, and Academy Award® winners Richard Taylor, Andrew Lesnie, Howard Shore, Jim Rygiel, Randy Cook, and many more
Special Extended DVD Edition of The Lord of Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring Discs 3-4: The Appendices:
Two discs with hours of original content including multiple documentaries and design/photo galleries with thousands of images to give viewers an in-depth behind-the-scenes look at The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
DISC 3: "From Book to Vision":
Adapting the book into a screenplay & planning the film
Designing and building Middle-earth
Storyboards to pre-visualization
Weta Workshop visit: An up-close look at the weapons, armor, creatures, and miniatures from the film
An interactive map of Middle-earth tracing the journey of the Fellowship
An interactive map of New Zealand highlighting the location scouting process
Galleries of art and slideshows with commentaries by the artists
Guided tour of the wardrobe department
Footage from early meetings, moving storyboards, and pre-visualization reels
DISC 4: "From Vision to Reality":
Bringing the characters to life
A day in the life of a hobbit
Principal photography: Stories from the set
Scale: Creating the illusion of size
Galleries of behind-the-scenes photographs and personal cast photos
Editorial and visual effects multi-angle progressions
Sound design demonstration
DVD-ROM Content: Includes access to exclusive online features
Widescreen anamorphic format
This one lists at $39.99
A Special Gift Edition:
This will be in a special packaging with some extras as well.
Four-disc Platinum Series Special Extended DVD Edition of The Lord of Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
• New version of National Geographic Beyond the Movie: The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring DVD, with additional featurettes
• Exclusive Argonath bookends sculpted by the film's visual effects artists
• Exclusive Decipher trading cards
• Special edition of the Lord of the Rings Fan Club official movie magazine
• Packaging illustrated by famed artist Alan Lee
List price is $79.99
Posted by Michael Shayne @ 10/13/2002 05:54 PM PST
It will take more than a little reworking of ANYONE CAN WHISTLE to make it watchable. Although through the years there have been many musicals with scores far superior to their books (AMOUR is the latest example) WHISTLE is perhaps the prime example. The book makes no sense at all while the songs are among Sondheim's best. I wish them luck.
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 10/13/2002 06:40 PM PST
What's this "Argonath bookends" bit?
Am I reading it correctly as a pair of bookends that comes with the set? Or does it mean something else entirely?
Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 10/13/2002 07:37 PM PST
It is a replica of those two huge Argo like statues they sail past.
Posted by Michael Shayne @ 10/13/2002 07:51 PM PST
Ron,
When we saw the Bashki Travesty on television, it did have a bit with Treebeard. It was incredibly embarrassing, and looked like a Saturday morning cartoon of a talking, running tree.
I think the ents may be the hardest thing to do visually, without making them look like the trees in The Wizard of Oz.
Posted by William F. Orr @ 10/13/2002 09:32 PM PST
Allan,
I do own the CD of Weird Romance, but haven't heard it for some time, and--do you know?--I didn't remember that the Yeats poem was quoted in the lyrics.
It begins "When you are old and grey and sitting by the fire," and appears to have been inspired by Ronsard's "Quand vous serez bien veille".
The line is, "But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you." And the kooky part is that I know this because years ago I translated both poems into Esperanto. 8-/>
Posted by William F. Orr @ 10/13/2002 09:37 PM PST
Thanks for the update on LOTR Michael. As much as I love the movie I will not be spending the money to buy the extended special edition. I am not impressed with that sort of marketing. They could have just as well released it that way first as an alternative rather than months apart. Alternatively they could have just released most of the extras later (not the movie) - I am sure the real fans would have bought them without another copy of the movie. We retirees have to watch our dollars.
Open question. Did the events in Bali get any coverage in the American press? We often have the feeling that our American friends are kept in splendid isolation from the world unless events effect you directly. Just asking.
Posted by Tom Guest @ 10/13/2002 10:31 PM PST
Tom: Yes, the events in Bali did receive coverage. Actually, led off most of the news broadcasts today, and NPR had some pretty good on-the-scene reporting. Of course, due to the time lag and the time it happened, some of the newspapers this morning had very "optimistic" death tolls. And since it looks like the bombing may be connected to Al-Qaeda, there is great interest in the events over here. What a horrific event. Just the description of the crater the bomb left over the radio was chilling. On the bright side - if there can be one in this situation - some reporters pointed out that there could have been many more people in the club at the time (including full sports teams due to the tournament going on).
-I can't really think of a good way to finish this post... My thoughts are with everyone.
Posted by Jose C. Simbulan @ 10/13/2002 10:40 PM PST
I'll echo Jose's comments that the story led off the news both yesterday and today. Now we are getting the news that all Americans are urged to leave Indonesia. Apparently, this call is open to Australians, Brits and Canadians, too.
"...loved the pilgrim soul in you..." is SO familiar and in a movie context...I can "hear" a character in a movie saying this to someone but cannot for the life of me recall the actor or movie.
re: "Sleeping Beauty" -- there is a promo on my DVD of "Beauty and the Beast" that indicates a special edition is forthcoming.
Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 10/14/2002 01:02 AM PST
For those of you in the NYC area w/Time-Warner Cable or RCN, interested in seeing a piece on the late Dolores Gray, see the article below taken from Playbill On-line yesterday.
""Jamie deRoy Spotlights Dolores Gray With Oct. 22 Cable Show
Dolores Gray, the late star of film and the New York and London stage, will be saluted during an upcoming broadcast of "Jamie deRoy & friends," the New York City cable television program dedicated to broadening the cabaret audience.
The Oct. 22 airing will feature a March 1992 interview with the late star; comic Mario Cantone also joins in. The interview is a lively half-hour of talk and repartee with the multi-talented Gray.
Directed by Barry Kleinbort, "Jamie deRoy & friends" will air in the metropolitan area on Time Warner Cable channel 67 and RCN channel 110. Broadcast time is 8 PM.
On Broadway, Dolores Gray starred in Seven Lively Arts (1944), Are You With It? (1945), Two on the Aisle (1951), Carnival in Flanders (1953), Destry Rides Again (1959), Sherry! (1967) and 42nd Street (1980). However, she scored her greatest stage successes in the London mountings of Annie Get Your Gun and Gypsy as well as the West End production of Stephen Sondheim's Follies, where Gray stopped the show nightly with her rendition of "I'm Still Here." Ms. Gray died June 26, 2002, at the age of 78.
Jamie deRoy, a stand-up comic, singer and hostess, has been a longtime fixture on the New York cabaret scene. Her most recent CD, "Jamie deRoy & Friends
Volume 3: 'Tis the Season," was released in 2001 by Harbinger Records.
—By Andrew Gans""
Posted by Ben @ 10/14/2002 03:54 AM PST
At the office this morning, listening to "Her Pilgrim Soul".
Has anyone remarked that the story is curiously remeniscent of "Portrait of Jenny"? And for further discussion, views on Robert Nathan's novel and/or the film?
Posted by William F. Orr @ 10/14/2002 05:13 AM PST
Oh, you rotten, rotten, rotten people!
I just heard "Someone Else Is Waiting", and here I am, tears in my eyes, sitting in my office grading papers. I'm such a sucker for a beautiful song. Now what if a student knocks on the door and wants help with the homework? What then?
Oh, you rotten, rotten people!
Posted by William F. Orr @ 10/14/2002 05:49 AM PST
When you are old and gray and full of sleep
And nodding by the fire, take down this book,
And slowly read, and dream of the soft look
Your eyes had once, and of their shadows deep;
How many loved your moments of glad grace,
And loved your beauty with love false or true;
But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you,
And loved the sorrows of your changing face.
And bending down beside the glowing bars,
Murmur, a little sadly, how love fled
And paced upon the mountains overhead,
And hid his face amid a crowd of stars.
-- me
Posted by William Butler Yeats @ 10/14/2002 06:23 AM PST
Kiam, Maljuna
William Butler Yeats
elangligis William F. Orr
Kiam, maljuna, griza, dormabunda,
Vi revos apud fajro, tiun libron
Tralegu lante, memorante l'vibron
Iaman de l'okul' ombroprofunda;
Ja multaj amis en moment' de beno
Viajn belecon, ghojon, kaj intimon,
Sed unu amis la pilgrimanimon,
Kaj triston kaj shanghighojn de l' mieno;
Klinighu antau arda la kradego
Kun murmuret', ke fughis Am' kaj pashis
Sur superkapaj montoj, kaj li kashis
Sian vizaghon inter stelogrego.
Posted by William F. Orr @ 10/14/2002 07:16 AM PST
Quand vous serez bien vieille, au soir, à la chandelle,
Assise auprès du feu, dévidant et filant,
Direr, chantant mes vers, en vous émerveillant :
"Ronsard me célébrait du temps que j'étais belle."
Lors vous n'aurez servante oyant telle nouvelle,
Déjà sous le labeur à demi sommeillant,
Qui au bruit de Ronsard ne s'aille réveillant,
Bénissant votre nom de louange immortelle.
Je serai sous la terre, et fantôme sans os,
Par les ombres myrteux je prendrai mon repos ;
Vous serez au foyer une vieille accroupie,
Regrettant mon amour et votre fier dédain.
Vivez, si m'en croyez, n'attendez à demain ;
Cueillez dès aujourd'hui les rose de la vie.
Pierre de Ronsard
Posted by Pierre de Ronsard @ 10/14/2002 07:24 AM PST
Post kiam vi maljuunos
Pierre de Ronsard
elfrancigis William F. Orr
Post kiam vi maljunos, vespere, kun kandelo
Sidante che la fajro, kantante, dum vi shpinos,
Versajhojn miajn, diru, char ili vin fascinos:
"Ronsardo min celebris, je l' tag' de mia belo."
Neniun servistinon, je tiu chi fabelo,
Jam kiun laborado al duondormo klinos,
Je l' sono de Ronsardo ne viglo iluminos.
Shi vian nomon benos per laudo al chielo.
Mi estos sub la tero, senosta kaj fantoma,
Kaj prenos mi ripozon en ombro mirtaroma;
Vi kauros che l' fajrejo, maljuna, sen aktivo;
Vi sentos pro maldegno de mia am' bedauron.
Se vi min kredas, vivu, atendu ne morgauon.
Hodiau ekrikoltu la rozojn de la vivo.
Posted by William F. Orr @ 10/14/2002 07:30 AM PST
Pas "les rose", mais "les roses".
Posted by Ronsard @ 10/14/2002 07:38 AM PST
