Replies: 53 Unseemly Comments
Oh yes, I liked it the way it was. More chance for a new talent to be discovered and embraced. And I think "back then" there were more people writing specifically for the theatre AND musical theatre.
NOW - composers, playwrights, choreographers, performers, etc. - come in droves from other media. And I don't think television and music video are good "learning" vehicles for the theatre.
And of course stories and vehicles used to go from stage to screen and now it's just as likely to be the other way around.
I honestly think that you can't write theatre (music, lyrics, book OR play) unless you have worked somewhere in theatre and know how it is supposed to work. And while some colleges have great programs - a lot of them gear to film!
I also think that keyboards and computers should be registered like guns. Just because you own one or the other doesn't mean you can write!
And of course, the audience has changed. If I go see a show - I don't want to be in a rock concert audience. Talking, cell phones, latecomers, typical stuff that everyone has complained about here and elsewhere before.
What was the question?
Posted by Jrand55 @ 12/12/2002 07:48 AM PST
first post Huzzah.
BK, have fun in Palm Springs - the city that Vern Albright built.
Posted by Jrand55 @ 12/12/2002 07:48 AM PST
Charley, why can't it be like it was? (a Sondheim reference) ...
Yes, I think the old days produced more and better work. But the economics of Broadway have changed so much that I doubt we will see the like of it again. It's a similar paradigm to the loss of the movie studio system. Some people make a LOT more money. But is the product any better? I am not so sure....
Posted by Philip Crosby @ 12/12/2002 09:07 AM PST
The new Brent Barrett CD just arrived from Amazon. I haven't had a chance to read the liner notes or play it yet, but it's here! Bruce, is this the last of the CD's you produced (at FA)to see the light of day, or are there some still out there on the shelf?
Posted by Kerry @ 12/12/2002 09:53 AM PST
Is the Brent Barrett CD that I will be buying at Footlight Records the same as the one that the label that can't be named is selling on-line or does the on-line version have any bonus tracks (like you initially intended)? If they are the same, is the track planned as the bonus track part of the CD?
Regarding the topic of the day, I would love to see a lot more shows open if prices were brought in line with the 50s. When I started going to theatre on a regular basis in the late 50s, theatre tickets were $10.00 and movie tickets were $2.00 so it cost 5 times as much to go to the theatre than a movie. Today theatre tickets are about $100 (although there are discounts available) and movie tickets about $10, so it is 10 times as costly to go to the theatre. I would be curious to know if anyone took the budget and running costs of a show of the 50s, translated them into today's dollars and compared them to a show of today to see why it is so much more costly to produce a show today and what types of expenses shows now have than they used to.
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 12/12/2002 10:10 AM PST
BK--
Regarding your route to Palm Springs today: the new 210 extension is now open and can save you lots of time! (MapQuest lied and told you it was open when it wasn't that time you went to Vegas and you got stuck in local traffic.) Take the 101 south to the 134 east to the 210 east to the 15 south to the 10 east to the 111. You'll bypass that nasty Kellogg Hill interchange. I went this way to the Springs of Palm last weekend and it was a breeze!
Posted by Jay @ 12/12/2002 10:40 AM PST
Jay - there is a part in THE RELUCTANT DEBUTANTE you would be perfect for. 8-D
Posted by Jrand55 @ 12/12/2002 10:42 AM PST
Dear Reader Jrand55:
I must confess ingnorance of THE RELUCTANT DEBUTANTE. Fill me in!
Posted by Jay @ 12/12/2002 10:47 AM PST
As far as I can tell, the track I had intended as an internet only bonus track, Tell Me, is part of the regular release (it's still being called a bonus track, but I believe that's what Brent told me) - so you're safe to purchase it from wherever you'd like.
Posted by bk @ 12/12/2002 10:50 AM PST
I checked the Footlights Web Site and "Tell Me, Tell Me" is listed on the track list. It's on sale there for $14.95. I'll be near there next week and will save the postage and pick it up in person. By the way, they also now have the Jerry Herman benefit recording which features Angela doing "Dolly" and Channing doing "Mame" (which she claims in her book was written for her but she was advised by her husband to turn it down --- she also thinks DOLLY was written for her when it is common knowledge that it was offered to Merman first).
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 12/12/2002 11:01 AM PST
LOL....Jay...if you like any of the following people:
Rex Harrison
Kay Kendall
Sandra Dee
John Saxon
Angela Lansbury
....run, don't walk, to the video store and find this film. Directed by Vincente Minnelli and filmed in London during Harrison's MY FAIR LADY run there, it is the story of the Season. Harrison now married to the lovely Kendall (in real life as well) is convinced that his American daughter (Dee) must come out as a debutante. She is infatuated with drummer Saxon. Lansbury is hilarious as a distant cousin of Kendall's who also has a daughter coming out. The daughter loves David Fenner -your part. His every conversation is detailed street and driving directions of his arrival and departure....Peter Mayes plays this part to perfection. The whole film is so funny - based on a play of course, from THE THEATRE...but charmingly played and delightful to behold. THE RELUCTANT DEBUTANTE.
Lansbury: You mean you didn't come out before the war?
Kendall: No, dear, I didn't.
Lansbury: (realizing she is telling her age) Oh well, I just barely made it myself. (touching her hair in just the way Mrs. Iselin would years later)
Posted by Jrand55 @ 12/12/2002 11:02 AM PST
Have a safe (and fun) trip to Palm Springs! Hope you sell LOTS of books!
Posted by Laura @ 12/12/2002 11:04 AM PST
Thanks, Jrand55. I will check it out!
Posted by Jay @ 12/12/2002 11:07 AM PST
Let me know what you think. I won't spoil a lovely joke...but there is a telephone exchange or two that are priceless. And John Saxon of course is very handsome!
Posted by Jrand55 @ 12/12/2002 11:12 AM PST
Guess who is typing from his very own new Dell computer system? It's me! It's me!! It just came about an hour ago and I am already up and running. My, oh my, how technology has come along. And look! I have commas again!! YAY!!!
Posted by Jason @ 12/12/2002 11:30 AM PST
Hey, Dude - you got a Dell!
Posted by Jrand55 @ 12/12/2002 11:32 AM PST
Bah-dum-bum! Hehe...
Posted by Jason @ 12/12/2002 12:09 PM PST
I keep looking in the box, but for some reason the Dell Dude isn't in there. I thought he was part of the package...? I'm highly disappointed.
Posted by Jason @ 12/12/2002 12:10 PM PST
Today in my Shakespeare class, the teacher said we were going to watch a very intellectual video version of Hamlet. We all groaned. Then he turned on the video. It was The Simpsons version of Hamlet.
Can you tell this was the last day of classes?
Posted by Sandra @ 12/12/2002 12:25 PM PST
I had forgotten about the Reluctant Debutante. Thanks for the memory. (Shirley & Bob).I had not of course forgotten John Saxon! I could never get to see that many shows when I was but a lad. Not that many made it here to OZ. When the OBC of MFL was finally released here (Christmas 58?)it started a whole new world (Aladdin) of cast albums for me. More shows on Broadway and more cast albums: that would be just dandy.I would happy if they videod/filmed broadway shows as with Passion, Woods etc and released them after the show closed. I don't think it would have any negative effects on touring shows etc. I suspect the effect would be positive. More public knowledge - more tickets sold for regional productions etc.
Posted by Tom Guest (from OZ) @ 12/12/2002 12:36 PM PST
Well, I'm about to head off to the land of Palms and Springs. However, I just paid a visit to an internet chat board I'd never seen and I must say it once again proves that we are happening, cool, man, cool and the nicest place to be. Also, on yet another chat board, someone was discussing our very topic of discussion from three days ago. Now, if THAT person had a single brain in their head they would find their way here, because our posts on that subject were great. Their loss - and before you say how are they supposed to find us - they would merely have to actually exercise their lazy eyes and look up to see our very own handy-dandy banner ad. Once that ad is seen I don't really know how anyone could stay away. Now, we need more posts if we are to achieve the most popular site on all the Internet award. Traffic was WAY down yesterday (it's been through the roof for the last two weeks) - let's not let the holidays preclude us from setting new and greater records. Let's post until the cows come home, and let's get those errant and truant few back here because we do miss them when they are gone. I'll check back in when I get home from the land of the Palms and the Springs.
Posted by bk @ 12/12/2002 01:15 PM PST
Are the cows home yet?
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 12/12/2002 01:28 PM PST
Moo....
Posted by Elsie The Cow @ 12/12/2002 01:33 PM PST
I'll be going home for good December 29.
Posted by Milky White @ 12/12/2002 01:37 PM PST
I'll miss you Milky.
Posted by Jack of Beanstalk fame) @ 12/12/2002 01:41 PM PST
You can take us home now!
Posted by The Whole Herd @ 12/12/2002 01:44 PM PST
Dear Reader Milky White--
Maybe you can find something to do for a few months in New York and join us in GYPSY!
Posted by Baby June @ 12/12/2002 01:57 PM PST
Has anyone ever noticed that the melody of Burl Ives' Christmas standard "Have a Holly Jolly Christmas" is actually
"Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer"
sideways? I just did.
Posted by mark rothman @ 12/12/2002 01:57 PM PST
Dear Reader mark rothman:
Not only that, did you know that "The Alphabet Song" and "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" are the same melody? Shocking!
Posted by Jay @ 12/12/2002 02:01 PM PST
Daddy's stomach is crying!
Posted by Laertes Wiggam @ 12/12/2002 02:14 PM PST
Nobody outcrazies Ophelia!
Posted by Lis(Opheli)a Simpson @ 12/12/2002 02:15 PM PST
Big lull. Anyone up for a game of Worst Cast Scenario?
Posted by Jay @ 12/12/2002 03:34 PM PST
As I wrote yesterday I have the brent barret cd and it is wonderful. No Bruce mentioned in the credits except for his producer credit.
Tell Me Tell Me is on the cd i bought at Borders. It is not listed as a bonus track.
I must have listened to it at least ten times in the past 24 hrs. Just a wonderful cd. A wonderful choice of songs.
Some of BB are now my favorite versions of the song.
As I said yesterday She Wasn't You is the highlight of the album for me. I literally said WOW! when the song finished. His two songs from Lolita, My Love as wonderful finds. (In the Broken Promise Land of Fifteen and Tell Me, Tell Me) His two songs from Dance A Little Closer are not the ones he did in show but are even better. There's Always One You Can't Forget and Anyone Who Loves.
The whole cd is a winner. I hope people will find the time to buy ine as a christmas gift and one for themselves. It erally is that good.
Applause to Christopher Denny (No I Know Who You Are) for the Music arrangements and direction. Lanny Meyers for the orchestrations. and Barry Kleinbort for additional arrangements
Posted by Michael Shayne @ 12/12/2002 03:44 PM PST
As most of you know I am putting together a website about BK music contributions. I finally (by accident) found a Vincent Cirilli picture! I now can include a Vinnie page!
Posted by Michael Shayne @ 12/12/2002 03:46 PM PST
With respect to the topic of the day, I certainly preferred "the way we were" (a Barbra reference). Back in '63 when I started attending college in NYC, I saw a show ever week. While in high school in Queens I would also come in to NYC at least once or twice a month to see a Saturday matinee. In the '63/'64 season alone I saw some that were terrible and quick flops (The Student Gypsy), some that were medicore and had a season run (Here's Love), some were very good (110 in the Shade), and some were great (Hello, Dolly!; Funny Girl). It didn't matter, though, whether they were good, bad, or mediocre. Seeing such a variety of musicals, dramas and comedys gave me the ability to understand was was good and what was bad and why.
The major reason I was able to see so many shows then was that going to the theater was not a pocket-draining expense, even as a college student with little spare $. In the '60s, seeing a Saturday matinee in a balcony seat was $4 or less. I think I paid $3.60 for a balcony seat to see Fiddler back in September '64. (Back in '60 I remember my parents buying tickets for Gypsy for a Saturday matinee for us and my grandparents to attend for $2.50 a ticket). As time went on I eventually began to treat myself to better seats, which for a Saturday matinee orchestra seat I remember paying between $5.50 and $7.00. Even after I got my graduate degree and started working in early '69 at a not princely wage, I could easily afford to take a date to the theater and even go to dinner before hand. Today, attending the theater is a major expense. Sure, I make a lot more $ now than I made then, but when you have to pay $100 per ticket, you really have to think hard and fast before plunking that amount of change down. Matinees are no longer cheaper and cost the same as a Saturday night. The result is that you go to the theater a lot less often, you can't "afford" to see just anything, and you look for discounts wherever you can find them. At least TDF, TKTS, an other discount offers provide some relief, but even at half price at TKTS, it can still be expensive. Several months back we took our kids (in their 20's) to see The Producers, which we ourselves had seen right after it opened. Well, that was a $400 matinee. Sure it was a special treat and we all enjoyed it (even again), but I certainly can't do that often.
I know that costs have skyrocketed, producing a show costs $6 M to $10M as opposed to what I think was $375K to open Fiddler back in '64. As a result, very few shows get produced today, and what does get produced needs to be be presold. Revivals are safe, since they are familiar to the audience, thus so many revivals each year. Producers want to put on shows on that will attract the tourists. It is the tourists that have kept these shows running for 10 years. The shows become tourist attractions, not unlike the rides at Disneyland. If it wasn't for the tourists, Cats, Phantom, LesMis, Saigon, etc., would never had the runs that they did/have. The success of these shows is good for the producing business, but I question whether they have stifled creativity and have inhibited new shows from being produced.
I believe that ticket prices have increased far in excess of the rise in the cost of living. The ordinary middle class person can't afford to go to the theater anymore, and if they do, they can't go as frequently. We can't go back, but I sure enjoyed my theater-going days the way it was!
Posted by steveg @ 12/12/2002 04:19 PM PST
The Brent Barrett CD I got from Amazon had 15 tracks (none designated a bonus). I believe that is the same number of tracks as the "special" one through FA.
Posted by Kerry @ 12/12/2002 04:42 PM PST
Jay,
You know what's even weirder about "The Alphabet Song"? It's in alphabetical order! Spooky!
Posted by Kerry @ 12/12/2002 04:47 PM PST
Dear Reader Kerry:
I never realized! Gosh, I've learned a lot today! And I have HHW to thank for it. You guys are the best!
Posted by Jay @ 12/12/2002 04:52 PM PST
Jay,
Anytime, kiddo.
Posted by Kerry @ 12/12/2002 05:42 PM PST
And if we are getting on songs that are alike, we musn't forget "Make 'Em Laugh" and "Be a Clown" and all that.
And did you know that in movie scores, "Strange Planet/UFO" music is the same as "Big City? music but in a minor key!
Posted by Kerry @ 12/12/2002 05:45 PM PST
This song has been running through my head all day, and I can't get rid of it. So I thought I would share it with all of you in hopes the curse will be lifted, or at least passed on to you poor people. Ready?
Everybody wants to be an art director;
Everybody wants to call the shots.
Everybody wants to be a flag dissector,
Turning all my stars to polka dots.
Everybody wants to have the final word on
What's exactly out and what is in.
How'd you like a flag that features fleur-de-lys on
Ochre corrugated tin?
Posted by William F. Orr @ 12/12/2002 06:21 PM PST
While we are on the topic of songs that sound alike, Cole Porter's "I Wanna Go Home" from LEAVE IT TO ME is almost exactly the same as the Lloyd Weber-Rice "Any Dream Will Do" from JOSEPH.
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 12/12/2002 06:28 PM PST
Imagine! Cole Porter cribbing from ALW!
Posted by William F. Orr @ 12/12/2002 06:33 PM PST
Hey, Gang,
I've been absent for many days. I'm on vacation and it's amazing the difference being in front of a computer every day makes in my posts. I'm volunteering right now during the day at Broadway Cares making gift bags for people with AIDS. We (Anthony and I) get home around 4:30 every day and after dinner and relaxing, we don't get on to the computer much. I'm having a great time away from the office and volunteering. We have another few days (probably the end will be Wednesday of next week) and then it's all free time. Hope the holidays are being kind to everyone (is that possible, holidays being kind? Holidays are not human) and I'll post again when I get a chance.
Posted by Ben @ 12/12/2002 07:26 PM PST
Ben,
You put us to shame ! Bless
your heart, as my best
American friend used to say....
I don't mind your "holidays
being kind".... it's "artistic
licence", so to speak, and I like
to write "hope life is kind to
you".....
Boy, I've read ALL the posts
I've missed in the last 4 days,
and some of them were quite
moving indeed..... like the
ones dealing with "something
you miss from the past". Nice
read.
Posted by François @ 12/12/2002 07:34 PM PST
Anybody see the 1980 movie, A SMALL CIRCLE OF FRIENDS? Brad Davis and Karen Allen? Well, the score is by a certain Jim Steinman, and well, the people at HHW are so smart, I probably don't even have to tell you that quite a few of the songs in DANCE OF THE VAMPIRES were in this little lost movie. I had to check out my ancient vhs copy of the movie after reading this on All That Chat!, but as Ms. Kahn said in BLAZING SADDLES, "It's twue! It's twue!"
Thought that you all might want to know this for future reference: Mr. Steinman has been working on the score for DotV for TWENTY YEARS!!!!!
Posted by td @ 12/12/2002 07:37 PM PST
Jason. All this talk of non-working commas. Were they ill? Were they on unemployment benefit? Did they leave of their own accord. Did they refuse to mind the Ps & Qs? Has there been a "witch hunt" on the evils of commaism? Did the upper case "more than" sign go out in sympathy? Did the new commas need to audition?
Sound alikes: I have always thought there was some of Candide hiding in Aspects Of Love. Isn't there a song in "The Grand Tour" with the same melody as one of the songs in "The Happy Time".
Isn't there a Rachmaninov tune borrowed from ALW's Sunset B?
I remember when "All I ask Of You" was "I Don't Talk to Strangers". It is on album by Placido D. I guess you are allowed to recycle your old melodies for a second try. "Blue Moon" had a few beginnings didn't it.
I do hope those cows are in their barn by now. Any news?
To another topic. I lived in London for a year (1973) and saw every show possible. I was not working but could afford to pay 50p to sit in the cheap seats. Even halfprice seats are too expensive for the tourist on their trip of a lifetime.
Posted by Tom from OZ @ 12/12/2002 08:31 PM PST
I have been very errant and truant from this site for several weeks. I have been very busy with a production I am in and the Holidays tend to creep up quickly.
I want to wish Bruce a very belated happy birthday. May you have many more.
It would be nice to have many more original musicals and plays. For whatever reason, there seems to be a creative stagnation that started in the 80's. I think some of it has to do with technology. We love our computers, palm pilots, internet, DVD's,etc. I'm not putting these things down, but I think society as a whole tend to amuse themselves at home. This does not lead to creative stimulation.
Economics also rears its ugly head.I remember going to touring companies in the '60's when an orchestra seat to "Bye Bye Birdie" was $5.00. That was probably the equivalent of $30 now. And if I'm going to plunk down $100 for a ticket (as I did in NY with "The Producers") I want to make sure I get good value for my money.
It's too bad that there isn't room on Broadway for the modest show. One that ran for one season and made a small profit. A lot of good shows were spawned in that era. "She Loves Me" is a good case in point. In this day of megahits would a show like "Drat the Cat" ever have found the backing to get into rehearsal let alone Philadelphia. I think not and that is too bad.The run was short but what a wonderful score! I guess that's why they call it "show business".
Posted by Dennis Clancy @ 12/12/2002 09:15 PM PST
Bruce
I forgot to add something. Last night I was going through my large CD collection and ran across "No Way to Treat A Lady." I bought it when it first came out but had never listened to it. It is wonderful!!! It sat for 5 years unplayed. I can't believe I never played it. Just wanted you to know how much I enjoyed it.
Posted by Dennis Clancy @ 12/12/2002 09:20 PM PST
Hello my dear hainses. Here I am, desperately trying to summon the energy to get this last paper finished. Dear reader Sandra will probably understand my woes. I'm very glad indeed that I can come to this happy little corner of the world and read cheerful posts to brighten my otherwise lousy day.
Perhaps some of you remember a children's book entitled "Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day." One of my very favorite books from my childhood...and somehow this particular day is bringing that story to mind.
*sigh* back to work I go
Posted by Ann @ 12/12/2002 10:00 PM PST
Ann: There is actually a pretty nice stage version of "Alexander..." The Kennedy Center produced it a few years ago, and toured it around the country for a few months. It has been made available for production by other companies now, and may be worth looking into if you're looking for something to fill out your season.
As for longing for the "way it was" in regards to shows... As many people have mentioned, it's a matter of economics. I was not yet born in "the glory days", but even for me, when I started to trying to get up to New York as often as possible to catch new shows in the mid-80s, I could afford a cheap seat every once and a while - and that was on my "high school" budget. -Sorry for that run-on sentence.
Now, an impulse trip up to New York has to be planned out - it can't be an impulse. There are too many costs involved, and, with some of the hotels deals you can get now, there are times when the theatre ticket can cost more than the hotel room for the night.
I will say, one of the perks of being "in the biz", is that I can usually swing a comp or can be walked in to standing room. But even those perks are harder to come by lately.
On the flip side of the subject, I remember the opening night of the Hal Prince revival of Show Boat. Mr. Prince brought all the personnel involved out on the stage at the curtain call - and it was to "prove" why the ticket prices for the show had set a new "record". It was a big cast, a big technical staff, all the office staff, etc... It kind of put in perspective.
Well... I finally get a nice day of rest tomorrow before the opening tomorrow night - no day rehearsal! At the end of our final rehearsal this afternoon, the director, Molly Smith, went around the room, one by one, and gave a bit a praise to every one in the room - actors, staff, technicians,... including myself. A very wonderful gesture. And for the actors, she also gave them one "piece" to work on, something for them to keep exploring throughout the run. And it turned out to be a very appropriate and unexpectedly emotional send-off for our opening weekend.
I'm gonna try to check in tomorrow, but I'll most likely check in Saturday morning. See you then.
Posted by Jose C. Simbulan @ 12/12/2002 11:15 PM PST
Before I forget (and someone remind me to post this on tomorrow's notes so everyone will see it):
Last night I finished reading one of the most amazing books I've ever picked up. No, I'm not talking about "Benjamin Kritzer," which is, of course, a fantastic novel. No, I'm speaking of Michael Chabon's book "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay." Never, EVER has a book moved me like this one did. I was in tears as I finished the last few pages because I was sad to be finishing the book and leaving the characters. It is a truly beautiful novel (and it won the 2001 Pulitzer Prize for Fiction) and I highly recommend it to all of you. Cheers to Mr. Chabon for writing such an exquisite piece.
Did I mention I cried? On more than one occasion, even.
Posted by Jason @ 12/13/2002 12:59 AM PST
The number of people involved in Mr. Prince's revisal of SHOW BOAT is miniscule in comparison with the original 1927 production.
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 12/13/2002 06:03 AM PST
