Posted by Matthew @ 02/08/2003 08:54 AM PST

I think "Pippin" would be most enjoyable as a phantasmagorical film. Heaven knows that video with William Katt leaves a bit (a very LARGE bit) to be desired.

I personally would love to make a film of a musical by your close personal friend Harvey Schmidt. Two words: "Mornin', File."

Posted by JMK @ 02/08/2003 09:27 AM PST

I have news: Yesterday was our biggest day ever here at haineshisway.com. Congratulations to all Hainsies/Kimlets for making this what will soon be the most popular site on all the Internet.

Posted by bk @ 02/08/2003 09:37 AM PST

Okay, I have a question about today's topic of discussion: Do the people we cast have to use their own voices, can they be dubbed?

Posted by td @ 02/08/2003 10:30 AM PST

Re. the musician's union and the extra musicians in the pit: I am aware of the musicians/theatre ratio. I didn't say I agreed with having musicians who are getting paid to do nothing. In fact, I think that's ridiculous, but as a performer who has done shows with a prerecorded score, I can tell you that it was the most horrific experience that I, as a performer, have ever gone through, and the audience hated it as well.

I am also aware of the number of shows that use samples, and even large chunks of prerecorded sections (i.e. THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, which uses prerecorded singing for logistical reasons, as well as some prerecorded orchestra parts for sound quality and consistency.) There is a huge difference, IMHO, in using samples and two or three minutes of prerecorded tracks than using prerecorded music throughout a 2-hour show. If I wanted that, I'd just stay at home and watch MTV.

"Seventy-six MIDI's led the big parade...
With a hundred and ten big KORGs right behind...
They were followed by rows and rows of the finest Casios...
The supreme of electronic bands!"

Doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it?

Posted by Jason @ 02/08/2003 10:35 AM PST

Well Jason - truth be told - I think I like your version better than the one AS SUNG BY Matthew Broderick

Posted by Craig @ 02/08/2003 10:45 AM PST

Matthew---
"The Glamorous Life" is an internet novel with a new chapter three or four times a week. It is about a touring company of "The Count of Monte Crisco" based on the author's tour in "Les Miz". Books One and Two were each 120 chapters and Book Two's last chapter was posted the beginning of January. Book Three starts this Friday and is a prequel involving the tour's Las Vegas stand. Check it out Friday and you will probably want to continue as each new Chapter is posted.

Jason ---Re the Musician's Strike: I don't think it is a matter of Live vs. Recorded. That's just what the Producers are telling the public. It's really a matter of who gets to decide how many musicians are needed: the composer/orchestrator or the union. In this case I'm on the producers side... why pay musicians who aren't needed to play the score? But the thing that worries me is that the composer/orchestrator will score for more instruments than they need just to give more musicians work. And while you as a performer may have problems with a pre-recorded orchestra, as an audience member half the time the orchestra sounds pre-recorded anyway... especially on shows where they are not in the pit but someplace backstage. I want to hear the "live" sound as it comes out of the instruments, not as filtered by a sound designer and technician.

Posted by William E. Lurie @ 02/08/2003 11:12 AM PST

I also think that Merrily We Roll Along would be a great film musical. As for casting - I'll have to get back to you on that one..

Posted by Craig @ 02/08/2003 11:30 AM PST

When I go to a Broadway show, I want the real deal, whether they're under the stage, behind the stage or sitting in the audience's lap. If I wanted to hear people singing to a glorified CD, I'd go to Opryland.

I feel that there's a huge amount of greed and ego involved on both sides of the negotiating table. In an ideal world, both sides would realize its about the craft, not the money or who gets to make decisions. But this isn't an ideal world. Unions are a double-edged sword, but also keep in mind that the producers aren't exactly angels themselves.

You may support whomever you wish. You don't have to sign that petition--when I posted that link last night, I posted it for everyone--not just you. Let others decide for themselves if they want to sign it. Keep this in mind, though...how much would you enjoy the MUFTI series if it turned into a big karaoke contest? I'm thinking not so much.

Posted by Jason @ 02/08/2003 11:49 AM PST

"Let others decide for themselves if they want to sign it..." should have read

"Let's let others..."

I apologize if that sounded confrontational before.

Posted by Jason @ 02/08/2003 12:01 PM PST

Mufti uses only one or two pianos and you can tell it's live.

I don't want recorded music on Broadway. I want live music that sounds live.

The whole point of the strike is who has the right to determine how many musicians are needed: the artistic people from the show or the union. It's not a matter of live versus recorded. The Union is just trying to use the scare of recorded music to get people on their side. One reason Broadway ticket prices are so high is that the Musicians Union and the Stagehands Union demand a lot more people than are needed and the ticket prices have to cover that.

Posted by William E. Lurie @ 02/08/2003 12:19 PM PST

Moving on...

What musical would I like to see made into a movie? Hmm...I would LOVE to see DREAMGIRLS on the big screen. It'd be tough to pull off, but wow! It'd be great. I'm not sure that it'd be worth doing, though, unless you got Ms. Holliday to play Effie. I mean, Roz Ryan was fine and I loved Lillias' performance, but Ms. Holliday is the definitive Effie, not to mention the *original* Effie, so she should do the movie. Now, as far as Lorelle and Deena, I don't know...

Did Nell Carter ever play Effie? If not, why not? I think she'd have been fabulous.

Posted by Jason @ 02/08/2003 12:39 PM PST

Maybe I will think of some casting later. I would love to see "Kiss Of The Spider Woman" as a musical film. Kevin Spacey for one roll for a start.

Posted by Tom from OZ @ 02/08/2003 12:48 PM PST

Mr. Lurie.. .while I wouldn't discount your points - the reason why ticket prices are so high, I believe have more to do with rent first and formost of the theater - then add in salaries of the actors AND musicians AND stagehands AND everyone else.

I am both for and against unions in general. But right now - when SO many people are out of work, I applaud the unions for fighting for the rights and wages for their members. That's not to say I don't side with the producers either. Theater - despite what we all would hope IS a business - and this struggle between art and $$ has always happened and will always I believe. If anyone else here has worked for a non profit (especially theater) can swear by - it's always a struggle and constant negotiation AND renegotiations. I hope they resolve the strike to the benefit of BOTH parties. The last thing we need right now is a) recorded music, b) producers NOT bringing some shows to broadway because of costs, and so forth.

Posted by Craig @ 02/08/2003 12:56 PM PST

This is a volatile issue. I will only say that Mr. Lurie is correct when he says the producers want to determine the size of the orchestra - not have the size dictated to them or have to go plead to the AFM. It's really that simple. I know this because on my recent trip I sat in a room with the head of one of the biggest theatrical producing organizations in the world and one of the most esteemed musical directors on B'way, and that was the position stated. The musical director agreed totally. The producing organizations do not want canned music - never have, never will. That bit of misinformation is, according to this particular producing organization, is being spread by the AFM to keep this whole thing incendiary. That is, at least, my understanding of it.

Posted by bk @ 02/08/2003 01:08 PM PST

To answer today's question i
would say:

SHE LOVES ME !

with -- and, YES, i'm serious!--
Matthew Broderich and
Khristin Chenoweth.....

What do YOU say?????

Posted by François @ 02/08/2003 01:11 PM PST

And to add, I'm not against Unions either when they are fighting for wages, benefits or working conditions. It's only when Unions demand work for members who are not really needed that I feel they have overstepped their boundries. Do you really want to pay people to do nothing but collect a weekly paycheck just so the Union collects their share? From what I have read both sides agree on every other issue. It's just the question of being forced to hire more people than necessary and that is the same in any business... arts-related or not, profit or non-profit.

Posted by William E. Lurie @ 02/08/2003 01:27 PM PST

Just to clarify my statements, because I'm obsessive/compulsive and I'm always afraid that I haven't been clear about things, I just want to make sure that you guys know that I am in agreement with the producers about the musicians/theatre ratio. They should be able to hire however many musicians it takes to fill out the orchestra for whatever show they're producing. I think it's absurd that someone should have to pay for musicians who aren't doing anything.

But I am also concerned about the number of musicians who may be out of work if things can't be resolved and these threats of recorded music come to fruition, not to mention the artistic toll it will take on the Broadway community in general.

I know this is a complicated matter. Its not cut and dry. Honestly, I don't know whose side to be on. As Craig said, and as I posted earlier, in an ideal world this would be about the art--about the craft. But this isn't an ideal world. It's business, and unfortunately something or someone will suffer because of it whichever way it goes.

Bottom line: I want to see producers have more control over the number of musicians in the pit, but I also want my fellow musicians to have some sense of protection and job security. You can't have it both ways, though. I don't know. I feel that I've talked in circles on the subject and now my brain hurts.

So, any suggestions on Deena and Lorelle?

Posted by Jason @ 02/08/2003 01:35 PM PST

I am a movie producer and I think I should jump on the Chicago bandwagon....hmmmmmm.

Hmmm....I think I might go for GOLDEN BOY with Will Smith in the lead. It's not a GREAT score, but I really like the story, and it's got a tough feel to it.

Good pedigree, too. I might make his manager Tom, a tough woman and put Queen Latifah in there, and Lorna would be played by Halle Berry.

OR we could go in a different direction and have Joe played by Eminem, with Bruce Willis as Tom, and Renee Z herself as Lorna.

Posted by Jrand52 @ 02/08/2003 01:56 PM PST

Mel Brooks is sort of hot on the musical-comedy front nowadays. I'd make a movie of his 1962 Strouse-Adams musical "All American."

I'd cast Gene Wilder as Professor Fodorski (Ray Bolger was badly miscast, Wilder would be PERFECT), and Teri Garr as Dean Hawkes-Bullock.

Jamie-Lynn Sigler (Meadow Soprano on "The Sopranos") would be a great Susan Piedmont. I don't know whom I'd cast as Edwin Bricker. Any ideas?

Anyone else ever heard of "All American"?

Posted by Sigerson Holmes @ 02/08/2003 02:16 PM PST

Heard of it...and it's troubles...but never heard the score Sigerson. Hmmmm....

Was it a musical version of Hail the Conquering Hero? Or am I thinking of something else?

Posted by Jrand52 @ 02/08/2003 02:43 PM PST

If memory serves, DREAMGIRLS was
actually developed with Nell
Carter in mind. I remember her
doing a benefit and having to
leave early because she was busy
with the DREAMGIRLS workshop (I
believe it was at the Public
Theatre). TV Land whisked her
away--so she wasn't able to
continue with the show when it
went to Broadway, and Jennifer
Holliday (who'd made a hit in
YOUR ARM'S TOO SHORT TO BOX WITH
GOD) took over.

Posted by Ludlow29 @ 02/08/2003 02:57 PM PST

ALL AMERICAN has a great score (I think the CD is still available) but the book is probably the least interesting thing Mel Brooks ever wrote. Of course the only version I have read was the Dramatist Publishing version which was re-written to be suitable for schools, but I don't think it would make a good movie. Most of the ideas suggested here would be enjoyed by those of us on this site, but not by the movie going public. Two or three flops from people who got on the CHICAGO bandwagon too fast will once again kill the whole genre. Although it's nothing I would be interested in, MAMA MIA might make a successful film.

Incidently, SHE LOVES ME was supposed to be filmed by MGM with Julie Andrews and Jerry Orbach shortly after the original Broadway production but a new regime at MGM killed that project.

By the way, the Union problem that we all should be concerned with is the Cameron Mackintosh/Equity one where he wants to fire the whole cast of OKLAHOMA! when it closes later this month and re-cast it with an all non-Equity cast for the tour. This would not be the first time it has happened (the MUSIC MAN revisal had a non-Equity tour) but it is unfair to theatregoers in other cities to present shows "direct from Broadway" with a cast that would not be allowed on Broadway. While I know there are many very talented people not yet in Equity, I have my doubts if an entire cast of them could be found that could equal a Broadway cast. This is supposedly a major city First National Company, not a cheap bus-and-truck tour, and it has profound impact on the future of theatre outside of New York.

Posted by William E. Lurie @ 02/08/2003 03:29 PM PST

All American's score includes the luscious standard, "Once Upon a Time." And, IIRC (and I may not)--weren't the trials and tribulations of getting this show mounted Mel's inspiration for several of the characters in "The Producers"? Or did I just make that up?

Posted by JMK @ 02/08/2003 03:55 PM PST

MISSILE TO THE MOON is a remake of the infamous CAT WOMEN OF THE MOON with the appearances by the International Beauty Contest Winners!

I think it was made to go on a double bill with the same director's FRANKENSTEIN'S DAUGHTER. That was an evening of entertainment!

Incidentally, MR BK, when you watched MTTM, and you heard Miss Cathy Downs screaming, it was the scream of Miss Allison Hayes!

Posted by Jrand52 @ 02/08/2003 04:09 PM PST

Yes, it says right on the DVD case that it played with Frank's Daughter. Now, where in tarnation is everyone? Apparently our Doug Storm interview is the talk of broadway.com and the Crawford fan site.

Posted by bk @ 02/08/2003 05:01 PM PST

When it comes to putting musicals on the screen, I'm inclined to go full out and epicish. I'd be aiming for SWEENEY TODD and LES MISERABLES.

Posted by S. Woody White @ 02/08/2003 05:50 PM PST

I love the Matthew Broderick suggestion. In the right show he is terrific. I think I will give "The Music Man" a miss if it ever gets here.
To add to my cast of Spider Woman - Russell Crowe and maybe Bebe Neuwirth.

Posted by Tom from OZ @ 02/08/2003 08:02 PM PST

I say, as I have before, The Most Happy Fella. Or maybe a good version of Guys and Dolls? Or, of course, Sweeney Todd. Maybe a tour through nocturnal London during the organ prelude, lighting on a mutilated corpse when the factory whistle blows. With the title, of course, in blood red. Very Threepenny Opera-ish. That should be made into a good movie, too. From what I've heard, it's never been done well in English. And I do love that score.

While I think that the composer/orchestrator should have power over the number of musicians, what disturbs me is the proposal to eliminate music copyists. They are quite necessary, deserving people, without whose skills a lot of trouble would be caused.

The Doug Storm interview was quite fascinating. Perhaps some of the people discussing it will come here, and take us even closer to being the most popular site on the internet!

Posted by Hapgood @ 02/08/2003 08:19 PM PST

I also love the idea of "She Loves Me" with Matthew and Kristen. And I'm certainly not the only one who has wanted to see a film of "Follies" for a long time.

I think that "Company" could be a good movie...in the right hands. I'd read that John Barrowman did very well at the Kennedy Center. I'd love to see "Side Show" filmed. They could even get real twins if Emily and Alice aren't available. Of course, a movie of "Into the Woods" has been talked about for years.

Posted by George @ 02/08/2003 08:57 PM PST

Russell Crowe as the gay
character in Spider Woman??

Just a joke!

IMHO, Kevin Spacey might be
a tad old for the part...
How about Reese
Witherspoon's husband --
what's his name?? -- providing
that he can sing.... and...act!!

Posted by François @ 02/08/2003 09:03 PM PST

Oh, Antonio Banderas would
be good, opposite Crowe...

Crowe and Spacey in a
musical version of L.A.
Confidential?????????

Posted by François @ 02/08/2003 09:07 PM PST

Lady in the Dark with Betty Buckley (or maybe Patti Lupone) as Liza Eliot.

Brent Barrett as Randy Curtis.

Jason Graae in the Danny Kaye rôle.

And this time, let's not cut half the score like they did in the Ginger Rodgers version.

Posted by William F. Orr @ 02/08/2003 09:16 PM PST

SUNSET BLVD with Rita Moreno and Matthew McConaughey.
Perhaps I would find a way to work in some clips from Rita's early film endeavors.
I'd reinstate "The Waxworks" with people like Shirley MacLaine, Cyd Charisse and Mickey Rooney.
For Max, there is no one but BRANDO.

Posted by td @ 02/08/2003 09:27 PM PST

Hello, all. We just got back from seeing Forbidden Broadway. Always a ton of fun! And our very own Brad Ellis was playing. In my opinion (IMO in internet lingo) no one plays piano like Brad Ellis!! And I mean that in a GOOD way.

Posted by Laura @ 02/08/2003 09:45 PM PST

Ludlow29: I don't know you (or do I?), but I thank you for your input on the Nell Carter/DREAMGIRLS history. I always thought she'd be a great Effie.

Posted by Jason @ 02/08/2003 09:51 PM PST

I don't know what I'd produce. There are still so many musicals which were screwed up in th transfer to film (which we have discussed many times).

Craig's idea of filming "Saturday Night" is very good. It could cash in on the same period as "Chicago" and has just enough edge to it to survive today's styles.

Posted by Kerry @ 02/08/2003 09:52 PM PST

Wondered where you were hiding td. Rita's "Everything's Coming Up Roses" is a classic of the cinema.

Posted by Tom from OZ @ 02/08/2003 09:58 PM PST

I wasn't hiding. . . I saw FAR FROM HEAVEN tonight, watched THE THIEF OF BAGDAD earlier today as well as MILDRED PIERCE, plus had rehearsals last night, this morning and tomorrow.

Posted by td @ 02/08/2003 10:30 PM PST

Good evening/morning!

Well, I had 200 people to play for today, not 100 - I misread the form. It went very fast. Some real good auditions, and some not real good auditions - which are sometimes "better" than the good ones. ;-)

*My favorite was a woman who sang "Fifty Percent" from Ballroom. First of all, I always feel weird playing the song for anyone who is under the age of 50 - or even 40. It's just such an "experienced" lyric. So, besides being young for the song, imho, she also had an interesting way of pronouncing her opening lyrics. Instead of hearing:

"So we don't have no memories
I've had enough memories..."
(or something close to that)

I thought I heard:

"So we don't have no mammaries
I've had enough mammaries..."

-I had to stifle a giggle the whole time!

OH - and I got my BBQ ribs at the Rendezvous - had a wonderful dinner with my friend, Michael. Truly fingering licking good.

Now onto to today's topic(s) of discussion...

Movie musical: Dreamgirls - which has been proposed many, many times to no avail. And, I'd actually think it would be neat to see I Do! I Do! on screen. To be able to see the couple aging - with the world around them - with more than just stage makeup, could enhance the story. And I wish the Muppet version of Into the Woods could get off the ground finally.

The Union vs. Producers situation:

First of all, I think we're at the point we are right now because both sides presented the "extremes" initially. However, when those "extremes" were proposed, they were just that, "proposed" - there was still room for concessions and negotiations. Unfortunately, certain statements became gospel, and now we're at an impass where neither side can afford to back down for fear of being thought of as weak.

Well, I was going to write more - and I did - but I had a long day, and I have another coming up tomorrow (and the next day). I just can't organize my thoughts as well as I should for this discussion. So, maybe tomorrow...

But I will say that the example of Actor's Equity not requiring plays - and playwrights - to use a minimum number of actors has some good weight to it.

And with the current state of the world, the union negotiations - although important to me actively and passively - are not on my current short list of priorities.

Oh, and final short note about the non-Equity stuff... Remember, all Equity actors were at one time non-Equity. And, trust me, union status is more an indication of economic status rather than level of talent. I saw many examples of that today, in fact. And I see it all the time! In Equity tours. And even on Broadway!

Posted by Jose C. Simbulan @ 02/09/2003 12:01 AM PST

Oh - just re-read my post...

"fingering licking good" - ????

And the ribs were finger looking good, not my friend, Michael. Well, actually... ;-)

Posted by Jose C. Simbulan @ 02/09/2003 12:05 AM PST

Finally - and then I'm going to bed - the stagehands union is definitely a powerful union. If you thought AFM minimums were controversial, you should check out some of the IATSE rules. It's amazing who and who can't put down a piece of spike tape, or move a piece of furniture in a tech rehearsal(!!!!!).

Posted by Jose C. Simbulan @ 02/09/2003 12:10 AM PST

OK, I lied... after this one I'm going to bed...

Equity vs. Non-Equity... I have two words for you:

David Hasselhoff

Posted by Jose C. Simbulan @ 02/09/2003 12:11 AM PST

Out of the entire Sondheim ouvre (a word I have never figured out how to pronounce), I have the following thoughts:

Saturday Night: I'm not sure the book is strong enough to engage a film audience. Pass.

West Side Story, Gypsy, Forum: Been done. Although Forum deserves to be done better. Still, it might be better as a candidate for a television adaptation.

Do I Hear a Waltz, Anyone Can Whistle: both terribly dated, again would have problems getting an audience.

Company: Structurally strange, might not work as a film vehicle. It could work on television, however.

Follies: A very interesting project for film. However, the stage locale might be hard for an audience to relate to. On the other hand, switiching the location to a film studio being torn down to build a parking lot (or a mall, more likely) could make the pastiche numbers easier to connect for the audience.

A Little Night Music: been there, done that.

Pacific Overtures: This could be a facinating project, especially if filmed on location. Again, there's the problem of getting enough of an audience, so it might have to be another television project.

Sweeney Todd: A film natural. Basically a good linear plot, and the gross-out factor should help sell to the kids. Perhaps the strongest Sondheim vehicle for film adaptation.

Merrily We Roll Along: There's that reverse time-line causing problems again. Perhaps as a television project, again.

Sunday In the Park with George: Oh, how I wish this could be pulled off. Make this my second favorite project. The real trick would be to overcome the two-act structure. Plus, getting the film audience to connect with the painting as the first act is proceeding, to see what George is attempting, would be important. This project calls for a really great screenplay, knowing how to readjust the material for the different medium. And putting it on the big screen would make the painting more interesting.

Into the Woods: Uh, there's that two-act structure causing problems again. A bigger problem is the presentational style of so many of the songs, directed towards the audience. Breaking through the fourth wall is hard enough on-stage. Doing it on film is too often deadly. Sorry, but have to take a pass on this one.

Assassins: Better a television project, what with the jumping around in time and the subject matter.

Passion: I can't see an audience connecting with this one as a film project. Sorry.

Bounce: Remains to be seen.

Posted by S. Woody White @ 02/09/2003 12:36 AM PST

Into the Woods just cries out to be animated. The problem with singing directly to the audience disappears. Oh, how we need Howard Ashman to produce!

Posted by William F. Orr @ 02/09/2003 03:46 AM PST

Jose - I love auditions. You get to see and hear such interesting things...as you say some good some bad.

When I am on the other side - and it hasn't been specified - I just try to sing something from the show....that I can do. If there are going to be 200 people there, I try to do something that will be memorable - but always something from a stage musical. I think some people would be surprised how many 'pop' or 'movie' songs we sometimes have to hear.

I choreographed a production of HAIR in 1987 (I was five years old), and as you wrote yesterday, it is really a nice bit of work...fun stuff, serious stuff, and stuff that can move you. And I think viewed at a distance it is even more fun. The last few minutes with Let the Sunshine In - and the war...and the loss, perhaps even more resonant right now.

I am an Equity Candidate - earning my way in by working hours in Equity theatres. But there are those who buy their way in - or are bought in by theatres locally to be able to appear in a show. Then of course they are prohibited from working in Community Theatre - and the three Equity houses just don't have enough work for them, so they are without a venue in Indy. It is not unusual for the Indiana Repertory Theatre to hire a young actor or actress for a part in an Upperstage Production - buy them into Equity and NEVER use them again! Happens every season.

I joined my fellow actors on the picket line one evening at the non-union MM here - I don't know how I feel. Equity status is NOT a guarantee of talent, but it does mean the performers are being paid a living wage and have health benefits.

Posted by Jrand52 @ 02/09/2003 05:47 AM PST

Oh my, if the links are counted as visits - HHW should have a GREAT day. Broadway.com has a link, and both Bruce and Doug are quoted.

You can go to Broadway.com click on Broadway Buzz and the Message Board to read the comments.

Interesting. Interesting as well, that I have NEVER been approved to join All That Chat (after three tries) and never of course been given a reason. Hmmmmm

Posted by Jrand52 @ 02/09/2003 05:53 AM PST

Hey Jrand52, do you use AOL? I think I remember recently Ann at Talkin Broadway said they were having problems letting AOL users in. Maybe try another account (hotmail?). Or just email one of the owners and ask what the problem is. I don't see why people wouldn't be accepted.

Posted by Jennifer @ 02/09/2003 06:32 AM PST

Nope NO AOL here. They tell you in your rejection email that your email request to join has been deleted, so don't bother asking why. 8-D

Posted by Jrand52 @ 02/09/2003 07:04 AM PST

Mel Brooks based "The Producers" on an actual producer he knew, not on his experiences on "All American".

Posted by William E. Lurie @ 02/09/2003 08:02 AM PST