Posted by Ben @ 04/15/2003 09:29 AM PST

Attention, Norma Shearer fans (and I know you're out there)!

TCM is showing Marie Antoinette and Idiot's Delight tonight, back-to-back beginning at 1:30 a.m.

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 09:31 AM PST

FANTASIA (the original) is my favorite animated picture. I must say, I rather enjoyed THE LION KING, too. Dear BK's rantings aside, I thorougly enjoyed the performances (voicings?) of Jeremy Irons, Nathan Lane and Whoopi Goldberg, as well as the humor and visual references that only an adult would "get."

Posted by Jay @ 04/15/2003 09:34 AM PST

Actually the use of "star voices" in Disney films began with the last animated film before Walt died - "The Jungle Book" with Phil Harris and Louis Prima. Then came "The Rescuers" and the Bob Newart/Eva Gabor mice and the Geraldine Page character. Then they went back to less recognizable voices until the "Aladdin" mentioned above.

I love all the classic Disneys, but if I had to pick two favorites they would be "Dumbo" and "Fantasia" - but definitely not "Fantasia 2000". I find most Post-"Beauty" Disney animated films unwatchable and find it odd that a company which won't allow a reissue of "Song of the South" because of it's depiction of Blacks will put out a film like "Pocahantes" (I know its spelled wrong) which is as equally offensive to Native Americans. As for the Pixar films, I enjoy them but they really don't seem any different than the George Pal Puppetoons of the 50s. And I still didn't understand why in the "Toy Story" films they don't use a mix of the puppets and real people so it doesn't look like toys playing with toys.

As for non-Disney animated, my favorite is "Allegro Non Tropo". So many animated films - most notably Don Bluth's "The Secret of NIMH" - are beautifully animated versions of really bad scripts. Mice stealing electricity from farmers? "Gay Puree" was fun because of Garland and an Arlen score.

But it's the classic Disneys that hold up today and are still wonderful for children of all ages.

Posted by William E. Lurie @ 04/15/2003 09:47 AM PST

"THEY LIKE SHOWTUNES" THEORY HITS NEW YORK TIMES

EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT

(Be sure to read the last paragraph.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/14/technology/14RADI.html

Posted by Jay @ 04/15/2003 09:51 AM PST

Lulu---
"Idiot's Delight" is one of the worst movies Norma, Clark or MGM ever made. With a plot like that film, it's no wonder "Dance A Little Closer" was such a flop.

By the way, regarding THE LION KING - the finest five minutes of animation I have ever seen (the opening) are followed by a poorly-adapted animated HAMLET with fart jokes. And when the father lion opens his mouth and the voice of Darth Vader comes out I realized how far down in his career James Earl Jones had sunk (this was before his phone company commercials). I know it was supposed to be popular with kids, but when I saw it the children in the audience were much more restless (ie: bored) than I can recall at any kid's movie.

Posted by William E. Lurie @ 04/15/2003 09:56 AM PST

On the other hand, I heartily agree with BK's assessment of the trend of using celebrity voices in animated films. When The Hubby and I saw Aladdin, we were both dismayed by Robin Williams's bellowing buffoonery as the genie. In addition to what we viewed as the inadequacy of his "performance," (always a word that must be enclosed in quotation marks when referring to Mr. Williams), the constant pop culture references will be more effective than carbon dating when it comes to making Aladdin look old and creaky relatively quickly (I bet that even now, 11 years later, if you watch it again you'll agree).

Yep, I know we're in the minority, but that doesn't change the fact that we're right. ;)

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 09:57 AM PST

My, WEL, between you and I, I think that the "curmudgeon" quotient of this message board is pretty well filled, don't you? ;)

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 10:02 AM PST

...and it seems to me that kids are "restless ie: bored" at EVERY movie they go to. Is it just me...were kids always like this, or has it gotten worse? Do they all need to be placed under heavy sedation before being allowed out of doors? I seem to recall going to the movies and actually watching the film. It could very well be that I'm misremembering -- note to self, call Mom tonight and ask her how "well-behaved" I was at the movies...

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 10:04 AM PST

I don't believe it's as much fun to be a child today as it used to be - even when my daughter was a child in 70s it was more fun. Of course we watched movies and were not restless (unless they were bad, and probably not even then). One of the joys of writing the two Kritzer books is to talk extensively about the magic of going to the movies and the impact the movies had back then, when they were not mostly mindless loud tripe.

Oh, and one other thing about the Disneyized American version of Kiki's. At the end of the film they put a card "Dedicated to Phil Hartman". Now, I like Phil Hartman as much as the next person, and was sorry to hear of his death, but really, how dare them. This isn't a Disney film, they don't own it (they distributed it in the US), I would venture to say that Mr. Miyazaki had never met Mr. Hartman and it's just crass in a way Disney never used to be. As Martha in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf would say, "Sad, sad, sad."

Posted by bk @ 04/15/2003 10:17 AM PST

I love "The Fox and the Hound," "Toy Story 2" (Jessie the Cowgirl's flashback scene always makes me misty-eyed), "Monsters, Inc." and I love the animated sequence in "Bedknobs and Broomsticks." I don't know if that one really counts in today's discussion, but I love it.

Here's another audition update: A friend that I worked with two summers ago is doing summmerstock at a theatre in Wisconsin and they are looking for a principle male. Well, she suggested me, and now the artistic director and I are in talks. He's specifically looking for the King in KING & I and Daddy Warbucks in ANNIE WARBUCKS, as well as a Sir Joseph in HMS PINAFORE and Abel in STATE FAIR. Now, I know that I'm too young to play any of these roles (maybe with the exception of Sir Joseph), but we'll see what happens. Jennifer seemed to think that he might hire me just from looking at my resume. I don't know how to feel about that! Anyway, its possibly going to be an option, so I thought I'd let you know.

Posted by Jason @ 04/15/2003 10:32 AM PST

Oh! And congrats to Dave on PLAID!

Posted by Jason @ 04/15/2003 10:33 AM PST

Well, we had another very productive Career Exploration session today. I don't know what the 349-pound psycho-therapist stepped in, but there was something nasty on his shoe. And there was a long white thread clinging to his dark blue shirt. That was one of the most entertaining parts of today's class. He also told us that his favorite comic strip is Doonesbury, and then he went on to tell us about the time when Zonker accidentally graduated from college. Then I kinda zoned out for fifteen minutes or so, so I really don't know what went on then. But the next thing I remember is the 349-pound psycho-therapist draping himself alluringly (?) across a chair. Please excuse me while I go poke out my eyes.

Posted by Sandra @ 04/15/2003 10:35 AM PST

"Doonesbury"...now there's a name out of the dim and murky past.

Who knew it was even still in existence?

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 10:47 AM PST

Jason, "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" counts if you make your own sub-catagories! Ang a great big Congratulations on everything! There are a lot of movies I have not yet seen, including Spirited Away, Kiki's Delivery Service, Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron or Ice Age. But what I have seen and love:

from Disney:
Beauty and the Beast
A Bug's Life
Fantasia (the original, not the 2000 version)
The Hunchback of Notre Dame
The Little Mermaid
Snow White and the Seven Dwarves (Dwarfs ... Dwarfs are very upsetting--a Sondheim reference)
Toy Story

Non-Disney:
The Iron Man
The Prince of Egypt
Shrek

Live Action/Animated hybrids:
Mary Poppins
Bedknobs and Broomsticks
Song of the South

TV stuff:
Futurama
South Park
The Simpsons
Star Blazers

Posted by George @ 04/15/2003 10:50 AM PST

Jason - Good luck on the auditions and with both The King and Daddy Warbucks you could even shave your head!

I'm not sure when auditions are, but if you see a listing for auditions for The New London Barn Playhouse in New London, New Hampshire. by all means go. They hold New York auditions every spring and lots of well known people worked there at the start of their career (Stephen Schwartz, Gerard Alasendrini, Sandy Dennis pop to mind). They are a great non-Equity theatre. Let me know if you're going to audition there and I can send a note to the producer who I've known since I worked there back when the world was young.

Re kids at movies: In the mid 60s I managed a movie theatre in suburban Chicago and we had special children's matinees every weekend. The kids were usually very well behaved no matter what we showed. I saw SHRECK in a child-filled audience and they were all paying attention to the film. However as I stated above, LION KING had them running all over the theatre. It's not the kids who have changed... it's the movies.

Posted by William E. Lurie @ 04/15/2003 11:01 AM PST

A girl in my Career Exploration class was wearing a T shirt today that said "HainesHisWay.com" on it. I don't know what her name is because I missed the first few classes because I got arrested, but she always wears saddle shoes and she says "unseemly" a lot. So I just thought I'd check out the website from her shirt, and maybe find out what "and free cheese slices" means.

Posted by the guy who missed the first few classes because he got arrested :-p @ 04/15/2003 11:03 AM PST

I own two animated films...and eventually will own three.

Presently I have and watch:

The Iron Giant
Sleeping Beauty

And I will buy The Little Mermaid.

I don't understand anime...haven't watched it enough, but perhaps I should.

Posted by Jrand52 @ 04/15/2003 11:09 AM PST

Greetings, and welcome to Haineshisway.com (or HHW as those "in the know" refer to it), The Guy Who Missed the First Few Classes Because He Got Arrested :-p !

We've heard so much about you (though not nearly as much as about some of your compatriots), and it is a real pleasure to meet you at last. We must break out the cheese slices and ham chunks, let the Diet Coke flow like the abundant waters of the Niagara, put on the pointy hats and dance both the Hora and the Pudding Dance (butterscotch).

Once again, thank you for choosing to patronize our message board. Now sit back, relax, and enjoy the show!

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 11:17 AM PST

Jason, good luck on the audition front. Summer in Wisconsin - ahhh, almost like summer in Minnesota (since they are right next to each other), mosquitos, humid weather (all those lakes, dont cha know) and long stretches of daylight, almost till 9pm cause you're up in the northern midwest. God, I hope you get it (a Marvin Hamlisch, almost, reference).

Jay, funny article from the Times. I read it last Thursday and burst out laughing.

I still read Doonesbury every day (Saturday and Sunday included). Not in the New York Times, but on line. I love my Doonesbury.

I actually really enjoyed Shrek. I didn't think I would because I don't "get" Mike Myers (or Adam Sandler for that matter). Maybe because I didn't have to look at him on screen. Anyway, I enjoyed it.

Posted by Ben @ 04/15/2003 11:39 AM PST

Got to agree with WEL about THE LION KING. In fact, I felt the same way about the stage musical. Great opening number, but not much to follow it up.

And I also agree with Lulu about Robin Williams. He's been milking his same old comedy schtick for the past two decades, and it's time for him to get some new material, or else focus on his dramatic work, which has shown much improvement in the past few years.

As to the whole Phil Hartman thing, I have mixed feelings. Out of respect for the deceased, it does behoove the filmmakers and/or distributers to acknowledge the contribution of the artist, and their sadness at his loss. If this was done in the face of Mr. Miyazaki's objections, then it would be a different story. As it is, it seems perfectly harmless.

Now, about kids in the theatre. I occasionally will take my son to see movies aimed at a younger mind set (Monsters Inc, Jungle Book, etc.) and have found the children there to be largely well-behaved and respectful. If children are allowed to run in the aisles and generally make a nuisance of themselves, then I would submit it is neither the children nor the movies that has changed, but the parents. My folks would Never have allowed me to behave that way.

Posted by Dave @ 04/15/2003 11:44 AM PST

Yes, Dave, but if the film interests the kids (as SHRECK did but LION KING didn't) there won't be a problem for the parents to correct in the first place. I remember I was once at a showing of Disney's ALICE IN WONDERLAND and when some kids started making a little noise I asked the mother to please keep her kids quiet and she said if I don't like noisey kids I shouldn't go to a kid's movie! Just another reason why I do most of my movie going on DVD now.

Posted by William E. Lurie @ 04/15/2003 11:50 AM PST

I saw LION KING in the theatre, and the children there were quiet enough that I was able to fall asleep half-way into the movie (which I did).

I also saw SHREK in the theatre, and found the children to be far more rambunctious than at LION KING. I also found the movie to be markedly inferior to THE LION KING. An assemblage of flatulence jokes, strung together in one of the most predictable plots ever. Both films had great animation, but little else to recommend them.

I try to avoid the cineplex, too, but it is more to escape the older "children" than the kids. ;-)

Posted by Dave @ 04/15/2003 12:05 PM PST

I agree that it has a lot more to do with parenting. No way could either I or my brother have been running up and down the aisles or talking in loud voices during the movie when we were little. It's like parents are so used to watching videos at home with the kids that they don't understand when you're at the movies you are *out in public* which requires different behavior. (Although come to think of it, even when we were at home, we weren't allowed to talk, etc. during the movie; had to wait for a commercial break or we'd be banished to our rooms).

I dunno...just a different world now.

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 12:06 PM PST

....and lest anyone think I don't like any of the modern DISNEY animated films, here are some gems:

THE LITTLE MERMAID
BEAUTY AND THE BEAST
TOY STORY
TOY STORY 2
MONSTERS, INC.

I am also a fan of JIMMY NEUTRON, BOY GENIUS.

The beauty of these movies is that my son and I can enjoy them equally.

Posted by Dave @ 04/15/2003 12:09 PM PST

Don't put all the blame on children. I've seen (and heard) some adults behave abominably at the movies. And the theatre. And symphony concerts. And the opera. (You get the drift, I dare say, dear readers.)

Posted by Jay @ 04/15/2003 12:16 PM PST

...and some also-rans:

MULAN
ANASTASIA
HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME
PRINCE OF EGYPT

There are probably some more that I can't think of right now.

Even HERCULES had its fun moments, especially in the form of David Zippel's lyrics.

Posted by Dave @ 04/15/2003 12:22 PM PST

Amen, Jay!

Posted by Dave @ 04/15/2003 12:22 PM PST

Jay, that's absolutely true. I sometimes go to a theater in Delray. Before every show someone comes out and makes an announcement to please turn off your cell phones, adjust your hearing aid to the proper level so it doesn't emit a piercing whine (are you getting an idea of the median age of the audience?), and please, please if you brought food, unwrap it NOW and not while the nice people are in the middle of their performance.

And I usually wind up sitting next to some old guy who promptly falls asleep and snores through the whole show.

Posted by Jay @ 04/15/2003 12:23 PM PST

Whoops, that was from me. :)

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 12:23 PM PST

Kids have changed... it's the parents that have a key role in that. Kids don't sit still anymore... they are not taught the classics and often balk or laugh at them. Everyone has an opinion on the Disney movies of the past 15 years or so, but the truth is, the kids do watch them and enjoy them, and it's not up to us to form a negative opinion of them, after all, they are not for us, they are for our children. I just showed the first 30 minutes of the Andrew Lloyd Webber Birthday celebration VHS tape to my fourth graders and they laughed at the voices, the staging and the performers performances. This is where we should worry about our kids not being exposed to good theatre/performing etc. Sorry, I know ranting was last Saturday, but whatever...

Posted by Matthew @ 04/15/2003 12:25 PM PST

I love summer theatre. South Pacific is cast...we still need some more guys...but that almost always happens. What's great is that in addition to directing and choreographing the show, I also get to give a crash course in acting....LOL.

We have a barn...and we're doing a show.

Congrats to everyone on getting parts in great shows! Dave and Jason have fun!!!

Posted by Jrand52 @ 04/15/2003 12:33 PM PST

For me:

Snow White
The Lion King - Although, I will admit it does have some pacing issues.
Beauty & The Beast -And I'll see how I like playing for the stage version tomorrow night - with possibly no pit observation(!). As Little Red said, "Excited and scared".
Mr. Magoo's Christmas Carol - Brings back very happy memories from my childhood.
Monster's Inc.
The Nightmare Before Christmas

I think that's a good list for now.

Btw, it's another beautiful day here in Richmond. 80 degrees and very sunny! Had a great run too! -Had to run off the "stress" from doing my taxes. UGH! -In my double and triple checking, I realized I had mis-filed a 1099... uh-oh.. ah, well... At least I had a good year last year.

Posted by Jose C. Simbulan @ 04/15/2003 12:43 PM PST

Let's face it...kids today just live a barren, joyless existence compared to the glorious, fun-loving days of the '70s. Remember that episode of The Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew Mysteries where Paul Williams was an Alice Cooper-style rock star who went to Transylvania to play a concert in Dracula's castle? Or what about that kooky film "Goin' Coconuts" starring Donny and Marie Osmond? Or the Captain and Tennille singing "Muskrat Love?"

Why do kids these days even bother? They can't possibly enjoy this all this Pokey-nonsense they're being spoonfed. Take pity on a "noughty" child today -- buy him or her a Big Wheel, give 'em a Clark bar, and sit 'em down in front of an episode of "The Gong Show." They'll thank you later.

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 12:44 PM PST

As for kids in theatres... movie and theatrical... I've found it just depends what's "in the air" sometimes. I've been in places where the kids were bouncing off the walls before the movie started, and then immediately quieted down when the lights came down. And sometimes, they just kept bouncing around. Also, on the vice versa, I've been in theatre where the kids were very quiet, and then got noisy and restless as the feature started. *And when I saw The Lion King in the theatre, the kids were very well-behaved. But when I saw Pocahontas, they were quiet, but that was because a bunch of them fell asleep... as I almost did too.

On a related note, there was a review of John O'Conor's concerto appearance in NYC this past weekend. After he finished the Beethoven, he sat down to play an encore. As he was about announce the piece, a cell phone rang. At least the reviewer found the humor in this instance.

Posted by Jose C. Simbulan @ 04/15/2003 12:49 PM PST

Jose's anecdote reminded me...has anyone else had this experience? We were at a theater watching a movie. Someone's cell phone rang...and THEY TOOK THE CALL. Had a whole conversation in a normal tone of voice in the middle of the film!

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 12:52 PM PST

Matthew, I saw the ALW birthday special, and I laughed at some of the voices, too, so it isn't just the kids... ;-)

I think the "kids have changed" routine is overplayed. Perhaps they are just not as easy to impress. After seeing the technical achievement of the more recent animated film or video game, they can't be expected to be dazzled by the simpler style that amazed their parents.

But it was always thus. If we are honest with ourselves, we have to admit that we giggled when our parents showed us what they thought was "brilliant" in their youth. Now it's our turn to be snickered at.

When they are older, and have had their fill of technical wizardry and gadgetry, they may long for a return to storytelling and character. Until then, let the baby have his bottle.

Posted by Dave @ 04/15/2003 12:52 PM PST

Jrand: I knew virtually nothing about anime (even though I own Akira, I've never watched it) - the term "anime" simply refers to Japanese animation, there's nothing to really know about it other than that. Kiki's is a wonderful place to start, but all this guy's films are unique and my guess is that the American companies may actually (now that Spirited Away has won the Oscar) start ripping off this stuff wholesale. And if it gets them out of the rut they're in that would be swell. I'm just so tired of the paint-by-numbers plotting of these things - the rock songs, the standard-issue villains and contrived situations.

Miyazaki's films are, at their heart, about very simple and basic things and that is why they have resonance and why they will live on. I urge everyone to at least give one of them a try, but you must PROMISE to view it the first time with the original language track and subtitles. By the way (BTW, in Internet lingo), the amazon price is 25% off retail.

As to Phil Hartman, as I said, I liked him as much as the next person, but for Disney to add the dedication to a film they had nothing to do with (save for almost ruining it with the awful adaptation) seemed a bit presumptious to me. In fact, if it weren't for all the Japanese names in the credits you'd think Disney would be trying to pass this off as one of their own.

Also, if you've never heard any of Joe Hisaishi's soundtracks, run out and buy Spirited Away - it's quite beautiful.

Posted by bk @ 04/15/2003 12:52 PM PST

The kids haven't changed so much as the world they live in has changed. The parents put up with it, is the problem, and even encourage it. When teenage girls' role model is Brittney Spears, with her jeans down to her crotch and her thong underwear sticking up and her tattoo on her ass well, I'm sorry, but it's a different world.

And I never snickered when my parents pointed me in the direction of something they liked. Were it not for their having show albums lying around the house I might not have developed my love for show music. If it wasn't for their habit of watching The Late Late Show I might never have discovered some wonderful classic and not so classic films. Snicker, never. Parents today don't seem to take the time to sit with their children and encourage and explain about all different types of art.

I remember when I was dating a person in the mid-eighties - she had a four year old son who had only watched new stuff. When he was five and six, I began showing him Ray Harryhausen movies and stuff like Singin' in the Rain and westerns and we'd sit and he was mesmerized by them and loved them even though they were much slower than what he'd been used to seeing.

Posted by bk @ 04/15/2003 12:58 PM PST

Dave, actually, my post was meant to poke fun at the idea that kids can't possibly enjoy their own childhoods simply because they have different trimmings than our own did. :) I'm quite sure that people who weren't little kids in the '70s would not have the teeniest, tiniest feelings of warmth or nostalgia towards Donny and Marie or Big Wheels; just like I can't get all excited about coonskin caps or Andy's Gang (I did love The Mickey Mouse Club, however).

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 01:00 PM PST

Favorite animated films:

Bambi
Sleeping Beauty
Song of the South
Pinocchio
Beauty and the Beast
Fantastic Planet
Heavy Metal

Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 04/15/2003 01:05 PM PST

Lulu, I wasn't replying to your post, but to Matthew's. I noted the irony in your post, and found it quite amusing. ;-)

And when I say that we as children giggled at our parent's entertainment, I mean that we did this in front of our friends. One of my fondest memories of my father was sitting in the living room, watching old movies, like the Andy Hardy series. I even remember that a local station ran a programme called "Saturday at the Bijou", in which they provided a semblance of what might have aired at a movie theatre in the 1930's or 1940's. They even included the short subject, the cartoons, the coming attractions, the B movie and the featured attraction. Seeing old Cisco Kid and Flash Gordon serials gave me an appreciation for the simple joys my father had growing up. But when my friends and I talked about it, we of course had to dismiss the cheesy special effects and obvious racial stereotyping. After all, we were far more sophisticated than that. We had Star Wars. ;-)

Posted by Dave @ 04/15/2003 01:16 PM PST

My brother and I both appreciate many genres of music, film, and other art forms. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

When we were growing up, our parents listened to albums of Broadway shows, Elvis Presley, Hank Williams, The Beatles, Beethoven, etc. Their tastes were just as eclectic when it came to films. ‘30s screwball comedies, Japanese monster movies, John Wayne war and cowboy pictures, the Star Wars trilogy…didn’t matter what genre or era, just had to be enjoyable. When they wanted to see “The Godfather” when it was shown on network TV for the first time, we had to entertain ourselves (away from the TV set) for several evenings in a row, but hey…them’s the breaks. We weren’t kept away from it because it was assumed that we “wouldn’t like that old stuff” but because they didn’t think it was appropriate for kids 10 and under to see Luca get his comeuppance.

I guess the circuitous point I’m making here is that kids will usually rise (or sink) to their parents’ expectations of them. If parents expect their kids to have no regard for anything that existed prior to their birth, they probably won’t. (I steadfastly believe this theory also holds true for all those parents who complain about being unable to force their children to read. They’re invariably people who never pick up a book themselves).

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 01:16 PM PST

Dave: OMG! Someone else actually remembers Matinee at the Bijou! (Actually, my husband watched it, too; but other than that, I don't know of anyone else who watched it.) I loved that show. It aired on PBS where I lived. I would take cushions off the sofa and arrange them in some byzantine "throne"-like pattern to serve as my extra-special "box seat" while I watched it. I can still remember much of the theme song:

America was standing in breadlines
Dillinger was stealing all the headlines
But down at the Bijou, people said lines
Like "boop-boop-a-doop, boop-boop-a-doop"

Andy Hardy never had to go hungry
There was no bank panic at Tarzan's branch
Il Duce and der Fuehrer
Couldn't have been obscurer
On the Planet Mongo, or the Melody Ranch

(naturally, I didn't have the slightest idea who Il Duce was; at the time, that part was just gibberish to me.) The theme was actually sung by Rudy Vallee. :)

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 01:21 PM PST

Omigod, Lulu, I'm having flashbacks. I can't believe you still remember the theme song. (I couldn't even get the name of the show right...)

On another channel, they briefly showed "The Golden Age of Television", which was essentially a bunch of b&w reruns of shows from the 1950's. That's how I first saw "Dobie Gillis" and "Burns & Allen" and "The Bob Cummings Show", among others.

Recently, our local cable company gave everybody a free month of premium channels, including the Comedy Network, where I got to see the Jack Benny show. I was amazed to see how well it holds up.

But here's the thing: people MY age don't appreciate those shows. So why should I expect children to appreciate them?

Despite what the curmudgeons say, there is plenty of quality work being done today for children to enjoy. They don't have to watch shows from my (or my father's) youth; they have their own.

Posted by Dave @ 04/15/2003 01:35 PM PST

I must buck the trend, I suppose, because I find Fantasia 2000 a brilliant animated film. The "Rhapsody in Blue" sequence is a work of genius, the genius being Eric Goldberg, but except for the interstitials the film is wonderful from start to fin.

I am also a big fan of Nightmare Before Christmas, Iron Giant, Allegro non Troppo (again with interstitial problems), and Tarzan (!), and Dumbo is an all-time classic.

I must disagree with Mr. Lurie, however, in his claim that Jungle Book was the first Disney use of "star voices." Alice in Wonderland was released a full 15 years before JB, and featured the voices of Ed Wynn, Richard Haydn, Sterling Halloway (a long-time Disney performer), Jerry Colonna, and J. Pat O'Malley. The ad libs by Ed Wynn were a major part of his portrayal of the Mad Hatter, and a distinct influence on the Hatter's portrayal on screen; some were used on Walt's insistance, in spite of the relatively poor recording quality, because even Wynn couldn't duplicate what he'd done previously.

Posted by S. Woody White @ 04/15/2003 01:40 PM PST

Definitely Alice In Wonderland, and first runner-up, Bambi...

Have a great day!

Posted by KT @ 04/15/2003 02:01 PM PST

Now I have to correct myself! The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad was released in 1949, before Alice in Wonderland, and starred the voice talents of Bing Crosby and Basil Rathborn.

And, if short subjects can be included, Johnny Appleseed (1948) featured a tour de force by Dennis Day, who played the Old Settler (narrator), Johnny, and Johnny's Guardian Angel. Dennis' characterization of Johnny involved his voicing the fellow as both a very young and very old man, bringing his distinct vocal creations to a total of four!

Posted by S. Wooyd White @ 04/15/2003 02:09 PM PST

I join my voice to S. Woody's in praise of FANTASIA 2000. Any movie with flying whales is A-OK in my book!

Posted by Drumm @ 04/15/2003 02:17 PM PST

I do wish some of you would be a bit more sensitive in your accounts of your childhoods.

All this talk of what your parents listened to when they were growing up only brings home to me that I was listening to those same things. And seeing those same movies (the Andy Hardy movies were HUGE favorites of mine, along with the Weissmuller Tarzan films) was my introduction to a life far different from the one I knew. When I saw those films, it was my first clue that the kids in those films could have been MY parents!!!

So...be kind....please...

Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 04/15/2003 02:32 PM PST

Actually, "Johnny Appleseed" was one segment of the all animated feature MELODY TIME.

For me, my favorite animated feature would have to be SLEEPING BEAUTY. I saw it four times in two days as a kid. Blown away by the animation and widescreen look of the film way back then. I could lose myself in those drawings and thought the adapted music was SO lush. Just adored it. When it was rereleased, I was an adult and teaching school. I went alone to a matinee showing, and the ticket seller said to me when I asked for a ticket to it, "But that's a kid's movie." "Not to me, it isn't." And I enjoyed it all over again. When the lasderdisc box set was released, it was pre-ordered the day it was announced.

And, of course, looking at it now, it doesn't have the sophistication of some of the later films like BEAUTY AND THE BEAST (my favorite of the late Disney period). Still, I can't let it go.

I also greatly admired A BUG'S LIFE.

Posted by Matt H. @ 04/15/2003 02:46 PM PST

My faves..

Anastasia
Toy Story 1&2
Little Mermaid
Shrek
Pinocchio
Raggedy Ann and Andy (not so much for the animation, but the Raposo score)
Cinderella
Akira
Spirited Away
Prince of Egypt

If we are allowed to pick hybrids... then:
Bedknobs and Broomsticks
Who Framed Roger Rabbit

and I am also a HUGE fan of Jimmy Neutron. The movie and the tv series is VERY smartly written. Plenty for kids (my nephew loves it) and many jokes that are aimed for the adults...

Posted by Craig @ 04/15/2003 02:49 PM PST

I have never seen Norma's Oscar winning performance in THE DIVORCEE. I keep missing it every time it turns up on TCM. I'll get to it one of these days. (I keep missing Garbo's MATI HARI, too. And for years, I'd keep missing the MacDonald/Eddy MAYTIME, but I did finally see it.)

Posted by Matt H. @ 04/15/2003 03:06 PM PST

Matt, you're right! Not to mention performances in Melody Time by the Andrews Sisters and the Sons of the Pioneers.

The previous year, Dinah Shore and Edgar Bergen lent their talents to Fun & Fancy Free, although since Bergen appeared on-camera he may not technically count as "voice" talent (we'll leave that to Charlie McCarthy). Plus the "Jack and the Beanstalk" segment was the last time Walt himself did the voice for Mickey Mouse, certainly by that time a star turn.

Posted by S. Woody White @ 04/15/2003 03:22 PM PST

Lady & the Tramp
Fantasia

Toy Story 1 & 2
The Prince Of Egypt
The Hunchback Of Notre Dame
Allegro Non Troppo

I an fond of these from my childhood:
Peter Pan
Pinnochio
Dumbo
Snow White

Shame BK. This topic should have waited for for a Francois Day!
(Tomorrow). Hopefully our Frech buddy will post his favourites tomorrow.

Most disappointing of the newer animated features:
Mulan
Pocohontas

Posted by Tom from Oz @ 04/15/2003 03:25 PM PST

Very fond of Akira although I have never gotten into other anime.

Fritz the Cat wasn't alll the bad. Despite it being an X rated cartoon

Heavy Metal was also quite good especially for the stories. The most unlike Disney animation I had seen up to that time.

Should Tron be included? It was really the first computer animated film.

I also enjoy the Wallace and Grommit short films as well as their full length film Chicken Run

Although I never seen the film, only clips, Watership Down looks very interesting.

Also the animated version of The King and I was one I avoided because what they did with the story. I wonder how the R & H organization allowed them to do that.

Posted by Michael Shayne @ 04/15/2003 03:55 PM PST

I can't believe I forgot Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer, A Charlie Brown Christmas I know they are not features but I love them anyways

Posted by Michael Shayne @ 04/15/2003 03:59 PM PST

LOL - I am convinced.

Posted by Jrand52 @ 04/15/2003 04:02 PM PST

Jrand52,

Convinced of what?

Posted by Dave @ 04/15/2003 05:30 PM PST

Jrand: You've found us out. Today's topic was all an elaborate ruse designed to convert you to being an animated film buff! *evil laughter* It worked, it worked!

Soon you'll be hanging out on unsavory street corners, trying to score a copy of "Gertie the Dinosaur." Remember, the first one's always free...

Posted by Lulu @ 04/15/2003 05:32 PM PST

George - OMG! Under "tv stuff" you mentioned Star Blazers! WOW! I thought I was the only person on the face of the Earth who remembered/loved that show! Two of my other faves were Battle of The Planets and Gigantor. Now while none of these animated series had anything even remotely what you would call “great (or even good) animation”, they still hold a special place in my heart because I grew up with them. Also, some of the story lines in these shows were far superior to any animated series today!

Posted by Ray @ 04/15/2003 06:08 PM PST

Michael - You should definitely check out Watership Down. It is possibly the best allegorical animated film ever made. It's observations on the human condition, using rabbits in a warren, are right on target!

Posted by Ray @ 04/15/2003 06:32 PM PST

Ooh! Three posts in a row! Anyhoo, re: Battle of The Planets - it's now available on DVD. Click my name for the link.

Posted by Ray @ 04/15/2003 06:36 PM PST

Michael: You ask how the R&H organization let them do that. For the same reasons they allow the changes in all recent R&H revivals (including shows by R&Hart and others like Irving Berlin whose works they control): Money. They would rather bastardize the work than turn down the royalties. As an example: the thing Roundabout passed off as BOYS FROM SYRACUSE or the new book and multiple score changes in the recent ANNIE GET YOUR GUN revisal.

I thought the topic was animated feature films but since people seem to be mentioning television don't forget "Crusader Rabbit" and it's follow-up "Rocky and Bullwinkle".

Posted by William E. Lurie @ 04/15/2003 06:51 PM PST

The animated sequences in SONG OF THE SOUTH are among the best animated sequences ever. I think the richness of color and depth of field are unsurpassed in Disney's 40s animation. I do wish the film was available for more people to see and appreciate it.

Funny that something like ALICE IN WONDERLAND, which was a BIG box-office disappointment in its day, holds up SO well whereas something that was a big hit like LADY AND THE TRAMP is well drawn but not as awesome in retrospect.

Posted by Matt H. @ 04/15/2003 08:10 PM PST

Here you go:

Alice in Wonderland featuring
Ed Wynn. . . and I am
convinced that then as now
they tailored the animation to
the celebrity voices they used.

And remember George
Sanders in The Jungle Book?
And Sterling Holloway?

The Rhapsody in Blue and
Donald's trip though Pomp
and Circumstance in Fantasia
2000 (carbon dating in titles,
yet) make the entire
experience worthwhile.

And, finally, Donald in
Mathmagicland. Love that
hipster Pythagoras!

Posted by Kurt @ 04/15/2003 08:32 PM PST

Just back from dinner with Laura, Kerry and Kerry's partner, about which more tomorrow.

Posted by bk @ 04/15/2003 09:43 PM PST

I remember Star Blazers too! It was part of my after-school TV ritual - Channel 20, WDCA out of Washington, DC. Complete with Captain 20.

OH! I remember when Star Blazers was finishing up a particular story line... Well, the second to last episode aired on a Friday. But come Monday... They started another story! I was soooooo mad. But I do remember many of the "twists" in the episodes, even some basic science lessons.

A friend of mine has practically all of them on video... Hmmmm...

Posted by Jose C. Simbulan @ 04/15/2003 09:57 PM PST

While at the same store where we've taken the laptop to be repaired, der Brucer and I noted that they had a special sale going on: anyone buying Castle in the Sky, Kiki's Delivery Service, AND Spirited Away all at the same time could get a copy of Princess Mononoke as well, no extra cost. Of course, we decided to take advantage of the deal. Of course, they'd run out of copies of Princess Mononoke, and had to give us a raincheck.

Which raises a question: why is a raincheck called a raincheck?

Posted by S. Woody White @ 04/15/2003 10:06 PM PST

If Rocky and Bullwinkle are to be mentioned so of course should the wonderful "Fractured Fairytales"

And "Watership Down" has "Bright Eyes" by Art Garfunkel.

Posted by Tom Terrific & Manfred (The Wonder Dog) @ 04/16/2003 01:28 AM PST

It is the right day at last. I can be the first to wish Allan a very happy birthday. These half centuries go by in no time at all!

Posted by Tom from Oz @ 04/16/2003 01:30 AM PST

S Woody: Thanks for mentioning Princess Mononoke. That's the film we saw in Ann Arbor at the Michigan Theatre in 1999. I mentioned it above in an early post but couldn't remember the name.

Happy Birthday Allan!

Posted by Ben @ 04/16/2003 04:21 AM PST

From the "wordorigins" website:
"A raincheck was originally a voucher issued at baseball games that were rained out, allowing the spectators to return to watch another game. Gradually, the usage spread to other types of sporting events and eventually to any offer that was not taken up immediately. The term dates to at least 1884."

Posted by steveg @ 04/16/2003 05:30 AM PST

I had my second childhood growing up with the Disney films Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Pocahontas, Hunchback, and Mulan. All of which I loved dearly (but especially Beauty). In recent times, only Prince of Egypt and Anastasia have moved me - and that's mostly because of their beautiful scores and songs. i continue to occasionally see other animated films or animated video sequels - all of which may be mildly entertaining (at the best of times), but often quite dull. Bring back the romantic animated musical!

Posted by Wee Stevie @ 04/16/2003 06:09 AM PST

This just in: TNN (formerly The Nashville Network) announces its imminent name and format change to (trumpet fanfare):

SPIKE TV
The First Network for Men

Beginning in June, SPIKE TV will feature such wonderful programs as the "adult cartoon" "Stripperella," the heartwarming Father's Day special "The 100 Most Irresistible Women," and my personal favorite, Ride with Funkmaster Flex, billed as "cars meets cribs."

They've even managed to put an offensive spin on their relatively innocuous forthcoming programming: "CBS Market Watch" has the unforgettable tagline: "Guys like money, and girls like guys that have money." Interestingly enough, they left off the rest: "...women, of course, are scheming golddiggers who are incapable of or uninterested in managing their own financial affairs." I guess because that much is already strongly implied.

I weep for the human race.

Posted by Lulu @ 04/16/2003 07:36 AM PST

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, ALLAN!

Posted by Jason @ 04/16/2003 08:15 AM PST

I know what you mean, Lulu. Shocking....uh...what channel is that on?

Posted by Jrand52 @ 04/16/2003 08:34 AM PST

Jrand: :p

Posted by Lulu @ 04/16/2003 08:41 AM PST