Posted by William F. Orr @ 09/09/2003 07:41 AM PST

First post! Huzzah!

Or, as we university professors say, NYAH, NYAH, NYAH!

And when is Donald's Jeepers Creepers radio show going up? I and all and sun-dried wait with eager anticipa

Posted by William F. Orr @ 09/09/2003 07:43 AM PST

tion.

Posted by William F. Orr @ 09/09/2003 07:43 AM PST

Favorite English Musicals:
Billy
Windy City
Bar Mitzva Boy

Posted by William E. Lurie @ 09/09/2003 07:51 AM PST

Thank-you, DR WFO! I'd forgotten that The Rocky Horror Show was originally produced in London! Great way to post a reminder!

Posted by S. Woody White @ 09/09/2003 07:52 AM PST

Will post on favorite English musicals later, as I have to head on up to Speech class....but I wanted to let DR Jason know good vibes are coming his way from me as of this very moment!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by Maya @ 09/09/2003 07:53 AM PST

Oh, one more kiss!
Give my ass one more kiss!
I've never known such bliss,
no, baby, not like this!
You know I need your love,
Oh Oh Oh!
Just give it one more kiss!

Posted by Conrad Birdie @ 09/09/2003 07:54 AM PST

Because your kiss
Your kiss is on my ass
Because your kiss
Your kiss is on my ass
Because your kiss is on my ass
Like the best things in life.

Posted by Daryl Hall and John Oates @ 09/09/2003 07:57 AM PST

I can't tell ewe anything, because ewe will just not listen.

Posted by The Shepherd @ 09/09/2003 08:04 AM PST

Enough with the ass kissing already. It was mildly funny the first day but it has gone on way too far and is lowering the entire tone of HHW.

Posted by Not a prude but... @ 09/09/2003 08:10 AM PST

Oliver is unmatched, one of the 20 best musicals ever.

Of musicals I've heard on record but never seen, I like Pickwick

So I guess them Brits have a way with Dickens. I tried to have a way with Dickens once and The Christmas Bride was the result.

Now here's a third category: British shows you really loved on record but were underwhelmed by in the theatre: Jesus Christ Superstar. Even though the Mary Magdalene was absolutely fantastic.

I shouldn't knock the British, as they seem so fond of my work. (Clicking my name will lead to reactions to my show their last month)

Posted by Noel @ 09/09/2003 08:10 AM PST

There you see him
Sitting there across the way
He don't got a lot to say
But there's something about him
And you don't know why
But you're dying to try
You wanna kiss his ass

Posted by The Late Howard Ashman @ 09/09/2003 08:16 AM PST

No English musicals yet. I'll post later but I wanted to say thank you to Mr. Feltham for the fascinating and excellent show this week. I am going to see if the Library at the Gay and Lesbian Center here in NYC has the Mercedes de Acosta bio. They have many out of print books and are a good resource for that kind of thing. I also want to read the current book by Schanke. You have really whetted my appetite for the book! Thanks. I'm just finishing something and was looking for my next read. These two books should fill the bill. Also, since you mentioned that the de Acosta bio is out of print but can be had for $200 or more at B&N, I also looked at Alibris, a great used book Web site. They have a copy of her autobiography for $59.

Posted by Ben @ 09/09/2003 08:25 AM PST

Also wanted to mention that I loved your choice of music to intersperse throughout the interview. Are those clips from your own collection? I love that period and the songs added another wonderful element to the piece.

Thanks again

Posted by Ben @ 09/09/2003 08:27 AM PST

Well...THE PARENT TRAP of course, was based on that little German book....hahaha.

And Roger Mobley was in Emil and the Detectives...an exciting two or three part World of Disney production...or maybe a movie chopped up, I forget which.

English musicals:

OLIVER
ROCKY HORROR
JOSEPH/DREAMCOAT
PHANTOM (I know, I know, but I like it)

Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/09/2003 08:30 AM PST

Oh dear, my champing at the bit for Donald's new show is to meant to imply in any way that I didn't thoroughly enjoy the show about Mercedes and every major woman in the arts in the first half of the century.

Kind of reminds one of Tom Lehrer's song Alma, i.e. the heterosexual version of Mercedes.

Or, as Mae West said at the curtain of her play Catherine the Great, "I'm glad you like my Catherine. I like her too. She ruled thirty million people and had three thousand lovers. I do the best I can in two hours."

Posted by William F. Orr @ 09/09/2003 09:16 AM PST

erratum:

is to meant to ===> is not meant to

Posted by William F. Orr @ 09/09/2003 09:18 AM PST

Not a prude - the thing about
running gags is that some
people love them and some
people run gagging. I favor
them as anyone who's been
here since the beginning can
attest to. What one person
finds "mildly funny" others find
not funny at all and yet others
find it hilarious. Frankly, I like
when those "kiss my ass" type
doors are opened by those
who criticize this site
elsewhere (without ever
having really spent time here
or knowing what the vibe is)
and I found everyone's
contributions to it really
amusing. But, I do understand
that not everyone will find it so.
As to lowering the entire tone
of HHW, well, I guess that
means we are all altos and
basses now.

WEL - I also enjoy Billy and
parts of Windy City. And there
are some cherce things in
Robert and Elizabeth including
the beautiful I Know Now.

Posted by bk @ 09/09/2003 09:23 AM PST

And of course, before someone calls me on it, let me note that West's play was actually entitled Catherine Was Great.

Posted by William F. Orr @ 09/09/2003 09:29 AM PST

Was she EVER!!

Posted by The Tsar @ 09/09/2003 09:31 AM PST

I actually saw WINDY CITY back in '82 when I was shooting my Sherlock Holmes scripts. While enjoyable enough, I was not overwhelmed. The strangest thing I remember was its set of which much was made ado. The set moved side-to-side within the proscenium. It was very strange...like the first pan-and-scan stage set.

My old theatre college professor introduced me to a recording of SALAD DAYS...a recording which I have since acquired. Haven't played it in years, but it used to amuse me. Now I always think of it whenever I see Monty Python's sketch of Salad Days as if directed by Sam Peckinpaph.

Posted by Charles Pogue @ 09/09/2003 09:36 AM PST

Noel:

In re: Reviews of your show

That usual comment applies, i.e., did all these people see the same show? And you know what they say about reviews...

Posted by William F. Orr @ 09/09/2003 09:44 AM PST

Oh, well. To my dismay, the Gay and Lesbian Center does not have the autobiography of Mercedes de Acosta. I just have to read the book by Schanke.

Posted by Ben @ 09/09/2003 09:47 AM PST

Interesting comments, Noel. Sounds like everyone ('cept one) had a great time!

Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/09/2003 09:47 AM PST

MAMMA MIA!

Posted by Jennifer @ 09/09/2003 09:49 AM PST

A wonderful London Revue called CRANKS.

Posted by Arnold M. Brockman @ 09/09/2003 09:56 AM PST

And BLOODBROTHERS - yes, I know, I know. Tell me it's not true.

Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/09/2003 09:56 AM PST

Why is it so quiet today? Everyone must be working very hard.

Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/09/2003 10:11 AM PST

I'm back in the brand spanking
new McGill Arts
Undergraduate Lounge and
Computer Centre. Please do
not ask me when it will stop
being brand spanking new
and just become that old arts
undergraduate lounge and
computer centre. For now - it
remains as it was.

I'm also back on the Mac.
Hence the column width.
Hence my frustration. Argh!
Frustration!!

I use a French keyboard at
home and so am very
confused as to the location of
the all important asterix and
question mark. I have to keep
looking at the keys. Danggit!
More Frustration!!!

Question to all NY DRs:
When will Broadway on
Broadway be televised in your
neck of the woods? Hopefully
I haven't missed my
opportunity to beg for a copy to
be sent to little old me in the
colonies?!? I can promise a
poutine survival pack to
anyone who could help me
out... (or a private french
lesson for Craig, perhaps?)

:)

My favorite British musical
theatre import remains Jesus
Christ Superstar which, unlike
most of the people on this
board, I really don't mind
actually seeing on stage.
Although I haven't seen the
newest re-incarnation of the
show live, I loved the new
interpretations that were
shown in the PBS version.
Especially all the references to
other more modern
revolutions.

There's a reason why I'm
taking Political Science and
Religious Studies :)

(surprisingly enough, it's not
because of the thrill of getting
the theologians into sinful
situations)

:)

Posted by Emily @ 09/09/2003 10:13 AM PST

I also would love to get a copy of Broadway on Broadway from someone if that is possible.

Thanks.

Posted by TCB @ 09/09/2003 10:18 AM PST

Oh, Mustardseed, Peaseblossom, Moth,
Fetch me mine Ass
That I might kiss it!

Posted by Tatania @ 09/09/2003 10:24 AM PST

Terrific GG interview, Mr BK! It's wonderful when you read what someone has to say - and it makes you like what he does even more! SPY vs SPY!

And Juliana's Journal is so terrific. I hope all the young DR at HHW who are interested in going into musical theatre are reading it and reading it! She's telling it like it is....work work work...and fun to follow!

Thanks, Juliana! Sending you good thoughts for your continuing tour and hope to see you!

Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/09/2003 10:27 AM PST

I'm back!

Could I also be added to the list of those who are dying for a copy of Broadway on Broadway? I am willing to pay for it, but wouldn't my undying gratitude and appreciation be worth so much more? ;)

British musicals--the only one I have ever really seen a production of is Oliver!, but let me add Me and My Girl, Stop the World..., The Roar of the Greasepaint...(how come all the Newley shows had such long titles?) The Boyfriend and Half a Sixpence. I also liked the score of the Good Companions.

Agreed on Juliana's Journal! She is truly a gem...I love the way she is able to be so dedicated and fancy-free all at once!

Posted by Maya @ 09/09/2003 10:37 AM PST

In honor of Dee Dee Sharp's 58th birthday today I think all DRs should dance the Mashed Potato...after all "It's the latest, it's the greatest"

Posted by MBarnum @ 09/09/2003 10:43 AM PST

The new release date for the Russell/Kirk GYPSY soundtrack is November 11.

A release date has finally been announced for the long-awaited CD of SHERRY! with Nathan Lane, Carol Burnett, Bernadette Peters, John Schneider and Charles Nelson Riley: February 24,2004. However this has been kicking around for so long that I would not be surprised if the date gets changed a couple of times before it is finally released.

Posted by William E Lurie @ 09/09/2003 11:27 AM PST

English musicals! Where do I start?

In the past year, Taboo and Our House were both fantastic productions. In the past 10 years I'd add Martin Guerre, Hard Times (Charles Dickens sure is popular here!), and By Jeeves (the London production was far superior to the US one). Going further back...Oliver is certainly a must. I'm quite partial to Ken Hill's Phantom of the Opera as well. Going back to the beginning of the British musical scene, I have to say my fave is Bless the Bride. That Vivian Ellis sure wrote some good tunes!

Posted by Wee Stevie @ 09/09/2003 11:27 AM PST

My favorite British scores are:

Oliver, Twang, Blitz (all by Lionel Bart)

Valmouth (Sandy Wilson)

Pickwick (Ornadel, Bricusse)

Posted by Dan-in-Toronto @ 09/09/2003 11:32 AM PST

Catherine wasn't great -- she was hot!

Posted by The Royal Guard @ 09/09/2003 11:43 AM PST

I am in the Writing Center,
home of the amazing crashing
Macs. I had one crash on me a
few minutes ago. What a
surprise.

Does anybody know what an
operating system is? My
computer teacher seems to
think that it's something I
should know. He spent the
first few minutes of class
telling us how much easier it
is to do things with computers
than by hand. Then he had to
reboot his computer, one girl's
computer froze, and mine
wasn't hooked up to the
network. It took ten minutes to
get everything working again
so we could open Word and
type To Do Lists. Yeah, that's
so much easier than just
writing with a pencil.

Posted by Sandra @ 09/09/2003 11:44 AM PST

Although not a big ALW fan, I do have to say that I am a fan of:
Phantom
Joseph
Evita
Sunset Blvd.
Other non-ALW British musical favorites:
Oliver
Mama Mia
Les Mis (I know it originated in France, but the British production made it the show it became)
Miss Saigon
I saw Stop the World in its original production, but even with its great score, would not characterize it as a favorite. Greasepaint also has a terrific score but a sodden book. I also saw Pickwick on Broadway and was disappointed that they never recorded and OBC album, but didn't think the show was particularly good.

I hate to get into the TMM controversy of last week again, but we went to see it this past Saturday matinee. For some reason, we never got around to seeing it and I saw a good discount code on the Internet that wouldn't cost me too much more than buying the tickets at TKTS and thus didn't require us getting into the city early. In any event, I have to say that the audience was enthusiastic. My wife and I, however, would agree with DR WEL that in our opinion, the show is at best mediocre. This is not to take anything away from those who loved it, but we found it to be lacking in just about everything. Other than the interpolated songs and melodies, there was nothing musical in the score. We thought the "Tony-winning" costumes were in many instances cheesy and ugly. The understudy who was on for Mrs. Meers was cringe-inducing and I was not overly impressed by Sutton who did a workman-like job in the role but did not emanate any star-like characteristics. We didn't have an awful time, but as WEL has said, it was just average and reminiscent and probably worse than a lot of shows that opened in the '60's and ran a season. It was audience pleasing, however, and if the audience loved it, whom am I do throw cold water on anyone else's good time.

Posted by steveg @ 09/09/2003 12:01 PM PST

But what we REALLY want to know, DR Sandra, is WHO are the interesting people in your class?

Posted by Old Laura @ 09/09/2003 12:03 PM PST

I very much like EVITA and MISS SAIGON too!

Where are all the posts today?

Posted by Jennifer @ 09/09/2003 12:30 PM PST

There's NO DOUBT about it, then!

When Sarah say "Thoroughly Modern Millie," she emanated an energy that lifted the entire cast to perform its very best and make the musical seem like the joyous event Sarah found it to be.

When Steveg and WEL were in the audience, the cast no doubt felt nothing they could do would be good enough and the show met those standards.

That's called karma and it affects everything we do, think and say.

Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 09/09/2003 12:30 PM PST

We used to have a 1963 Plymouth Karma.

Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/09/2003 12:41 PM PST

You're damn right, it's Mashed Potato time!

Posted by Dee Dee Sharp @ 09/09/2003 12:47 PM PST

Or in honour of DeeDee we could just get on our pony and RIDE!

Posted by Charles Pogue @ 09/09/2003 12:47 PM PST

English musicals:

Oliver, Phantom of the Opera, The Boyfriend.

I know I am in the minority, but I happen to enjoy Roar / Smell, not only do I love the score, but I enjoy the book, as well.

On a personal note: For those friends who have been sending me e-mails at work (because my home computer is comatose), I have apparently destroyed our government e-mail here at work, as well. Although, we are receiving some e-mail here at work, almost all of our outgoing e-mails are vanishing into the netherworld. Please don't feel like I am being unsociable, they expect our system to be repaired sometime this week, at which time I will let you know. Feel free to keep sending me mail, I appreciate the human contact.

Posted by TCB @ 09/09/2003 12:49 PM PST

Just out of curiosity, I did a search at the Internet Broadway Database, just to see how many musicals opened in the 1960's and ran for a year. (Okay, I cheated and searched for shows that ran for less than 500 performances.) Here is the list that it returned:

The Apple Tree [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 463

Wait a Minim! [Original, Musical, Revue, Dance, Pantomime] Perf. Count: 456

George M! [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 433

Do Re Mi [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 400

Golden Rainbow [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 383

High Spirits [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 375

Here's Love [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 334

110 in the Shade [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 330

Coco [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 329

Illya Darling [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 320

Baker Street [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 311

Zorba [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 305

She Loves Me [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 302

I Can Get It for You Wholesale [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 300

Hallelujah, Baby! [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 293

The Happy Time [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 286

On a Clear Day You Can See Forever [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 280

Fade Out - Fade In [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 271

Mr. President [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 265

Tovarich [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 264

Little Me [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 257

Skyscraper [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 248

Bajour [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 232

The Roar of the Greasepaint - The Smell of the Crowd [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 231

Do I Hear a Waltz? [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 220

How Now, Dow Jones [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 220

Tenderloin [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 216

Ben Franklin in Paris [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 215

Subways Are for Sleeping [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 205

I Had a Ball [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 199

Folies Bergère [1964] [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 191

The Zulu and the Zayda [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 179

Wildcat [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 171

Sail Away [Original, Musical, Comedy, Satire] Perf. Count: 167

Walking Happy [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 161

Dear World [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 132

"It's a Bird...It's a Plane...It's Superman" [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 129

Oh What a Lovely War [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 125

This Was Burlesque [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 124

Canterbury Tales [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 121

The Gay Life [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 113

The Girl Who Came to Supper [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 112

Spoon River Anthology [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 111

Celebration [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 109

Let's Sing Yiddish [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 107

At the Drop of Another Hat [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 105

Show Girl [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 100

Greenwillow [Original, Musical, Comedy, Fantasy, Romantic Comedy] Perf. Count: 97

The Happiest Girl in the World [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 96

Kean [Original, Musical, Operetta, Comedy] Perf. Count: 92

From the Second City [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 87

Flora, The Red Menace [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 87

Jimmy [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 84

Jennie [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 82

Maggie Flynn [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 82

All American [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 80

Henry, Sweet Henry [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 80

The Megilla of Itzik Manger [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 78

Bravo Giovanni [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 76

Foxy [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 72

Sherry! [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 72

Donnybrook! [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 68

Let It Ride [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 68

Hello, Solly! [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 68

A Family Affair [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 65

The Committee. [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 61

Pickwick [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 56

Leonard Sillman's New Faces of 1968 [Original, Musical, Revue]
Perf. Count: 52

Zizi [Original, Musical, Revue, Dance] Perf. Count: 49

The Hollow Crown [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 46

Noël Coward's Sweet Potato [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 44

Hot Spot [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 43

A Time for Singing [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 41

Kwamina [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 32

Darling of the Day [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 31

The Education of H*Y*M*A*N K*A*P*L*A*N [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 29

13 Daughters [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 28

New Faces of 1962 [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 28

Rugantino [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 28

The Young Abe Lincoln [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 27

Wiener Blut [Revival, Musical, Operetta] Perf. Count: 27

Josephine Baker [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 24

Cambridge Circus [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 23

From A to Z [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 21

The Student Gypsy [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 16

Anya [Original, Musical, Operetta] Perf. Count: 16

Something More! [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 15

Christine [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 12

A Joyful Noise [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 12

Nowhere to Go But Up [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 9

Anyone Can Whistle [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 9

Vintage '60 [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 8

Laughs and Other Events [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 8

The Conquering Hero [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 8

Sophie [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 8

Drat! The Cat! [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 8

The Billy Barnes People [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 7

Man in the Moon [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 7

La Grosse Valise [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 7

I'm Solomon [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 7

Come Summer [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 7

Buck White [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 7

Beg, Borrow or Steal [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 5

The Beast in Me [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 4

Double Dublin [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 4

The Fig Leaves Are Falling [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 4

Cafe Crown [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 3

The Yearling [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 3

Pousse-Café [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 3

Kelly [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 1

Here's Where I Belong [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 1

Billy [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 1

La Strada [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 1

Interesting stuff, this. Just thought I would share it for those too young (or too old) to remember the 1960's. Of course, they say that if you can remember the 1960's, you weren't there.

Posted by Dave @ 09/09/2003 12:50 PM PST

Sarah,

An Operating System is the big nanny program that keeps all the other programs in line. "You go into memory here, you over there. The user wants you on the screen now! Give me that and I'll send it to the printer. Something's coming in on the modem: I'll pass it along to the Web Browser."

If you use a PC, your Operating System is most likely Windows. If you use a Mac, it has the colorful name of "Mac Operating System".

Posted by William F. Orr @ 09/09/2003 12:54 PM PST

oops, that last post was for Sandra, not Sarah.

Posted by William F. Orr @ 09/09/2003 12:56 PM PST

Thanks, Dave, for that amazing list of titles.

Just for fun, why not run a list for musicals that played longer than a year.

Oddly, I have a good 75% of those titles above in my collection.

Other than "Cabaret," "Man of La Mancha," "Fiddler on the Roof," "Hello, Dolly!" and "Mame," what would those longer-running (and profitable) 1960s musicals be?

Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 09/09/2003 01:00 PM PST

Dave - what IS The Megilla of Itzik Manger?

And do you suppose there was an Abraham Lincoln ballet in the piece?

Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/09/2003 01:03 PM PST

On second glance, I have about 40% of those titles in my collection.

Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 09/09/2003 01:07 PM PST

Today is a VERY crazy day - I'm
going back and forth between
two edit bays trying to finish
two shows to send to the
network. The one I'VE been
working on is in swell shape -
the one the other editor had
been working on is iffy, but I
just gave him a few pages of
notes and fixes and hopefully it
will be better. AND, we just got
the network notes on the water
show and they were the least
amount of notes this show
has EVER gotten, so I must be
doing something right. Damn
them, damn them all to hell.

I'll check in as often as
possible. I'm about to eat a
sandwich.

Posted by bk @ 09/09/2003 01:09 PM PST

Ron,

You asked for it, you got it. Note that this is a *much* shorter list:

Fiddler on the Roof [Original, Musical, Comedy, Drama] Perf. Count: 3242

Hello, Dolly! [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 2844

Man of La Mancha [Original, Musical, Drama] Perf. Count: 2328

Hair [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 1750

Mame [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 1508

How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 1417

Funny Girl [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 1348

Oh! Calcutta! [Original, Musical, Revue] Perf. Count: 1314

Promises, Promises [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 1281

1776 [Original, Musical, Comedy, History] Perf. Count: 1217

Cabaret [Original, Musical, Drama] Perf. Count: 1165

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum [Original, Musical, Comedy, Farce] Perf. Count: 964

Camelot [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 873

Oliver! [Original, Musical, Comedy, Drama] Perf. Count: 774

Carnival! [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 719

Sweet Charity [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 608

Bye Bye Birdie [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 607

No Strings [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 580

Golden Boy [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 568

I Do! I Do! [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 560

Stop the World - I Want to Get Off [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 555

Milk and Honey [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 543

What Makes Sammy Run? [Original, Musical] Perf. Count: 540

The Unsinkable Molly Brown [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 532

Irma La Douce [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 524

Half a Sixpence [Original, Musical, Comedy] Perf. Count: 511

Also very interesting...

Posted by Dave @ 09/09/2003 01:13 PM PST

Dave:
I'm scaring myself, but I saw in their original Broadway productions, 57 of the shows on your first list and 24 on the second list. I must not have had a life!

Posted by steveg @ 09/09/2003 01:22 PM PST

I just got back from a THRILLING day at school!

Not.

Do any of you really think on a day-to-day basis "I need to make sure I know how to divide my binomials correctly, and then put them in the Linear Equasions and solve for x, y, and c. Then I need to make sure I know every detail about how the Anglo-Saxons revolutionalized the English language as we know it!"

???

School is pointless 70% of the time, I tell you. And the internet access is down on the Macs at my school, so I have no way to check into HHW, even when I have an hour and a half of free time. I think the school is plotting against me! *bum bum bummmmmmm*

BTW, the story was very funny yesterady, I thoroughly enjoyed it!

Posted by Sarah @ 09/09/2003 01:25 PM PST

Why, just this morning I was
thinking that I had to know how
to divide my binomials
correctly, because I have been
dividing my binomials
incorrectly all this time, which
is why I've been saying KISS
MY ASS so much. That is what
happens when one divides
their binomials incorrectly,
Sarah, so be sure to divide
your binomials correctly.
Frankly, I didn't really even
know that nomials WERE bi.

Posted by bk @ 09/09/2003 01:31 PM PST

Only the rebellious ones, bk.

Posted by Sarah @ 09/09/2003 01:34 PM PST

Sarah,

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that school is about learning the subject matter being taught. If learning about binomial theories seems irrlevant, it probably is, except that it teaches you to think abstractly, and recognize patterns. You learn to solve problems through a methodical process. And that is not pointless.

Likewise, no one will ever quiz you about Anglo-Saxon history once you have graduated, but you will have learned about the contributions of different cultures to our present-day society, so hopefully you will value people of all races and genders. You will also have learned how to do research, which will be a worthwhile skill that you will never outgrow.

Look for the bigger picture, and keep your eyes on the prize!

This message has been a public service of your local Board of Education.

;-)

Posted by Dave @ 09/09/2003 01:35 PM PST

Here is a strange little thing to puzzle you all this afternoon. Math wizards will know the secret.

http://digicc.com/fido/

Posted by TCB @ 09/09/2003 01:37 PM PST

Puzzle me? More like drive me crazy! Maybe DR Sandra can explain the trick using binomials and linear equations.

Posted by Jay @ 09/09/2003 01:45 PM PST

When you take a number, reverse it, and subtract the smaller from the larger, the resultant number will be such that all the digits will add up to 9, one way or the other. For example, the sum of the digits may be 18, which when added together itself gives 9. Thus once you give the digits that are remaining after you have crossed out one digit, not matter what order you give them in, its a simple matter to determine the one digit that you have crossed out. Try it!

Posted by steveg @ 09/09/2003 01:59 PM PST

Hey all you DRs who are fans of ecclectic music from the 60s I found this way cool internet radio sight called Luxuriamusic.com

They play odd foriegn versions of popular American pop hits, various assortments of Bollywood music, vintage radio commercials including the occasional drive-in horror film advertisement, elavator and lounge music, and much much more unusual stuff from the 1960s and very early 70s.

Listen and enjoy! It has become my favorite station to listen to at work and I know that some of you will really dig it!

Posted by MBarnum @ 09/09/2003 02:02 PM PST

PS: Just click on my name to get to the sight!!

Posted by mbarnum @ 09/09/2003 02:03 PM PST

Una daide, a kenicht gun murching in de foreste. He sawed a fairde yun maide culled Sarah. Sarah saide: de angles and de saxons speake a true brute tongue. Let us speak English in its stead.

Posted by An Anglo Saxon @ 09/09/2003 02:03 PM PST

I should add, that if you didn't preclude circling the "0", there could be two possibilities that could be guessed. That's why they tell you not to circle a "0". There is thus only one possible digit that the crossed out digit can be.

Posted by steveg @ 09/09/2003 02:04 PM PST

http://mr-31238.mr.valuehost.co.uk/assets/Flash/psychic.swf

There's another one, less complicated. For some weird reason, these come very easy to me. I got this one in a matter of minutes I think. The 7-Up one was fun!

Posted by Sarah @ 09/09/2003 02:07 PM PST

Now that second list is more like it.

I'd forgotten so many of those shows opened in the 60s!!!!

Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 09/09/2003 02:09 PM PST

I love LES MIZ, but for me the best British musical ever written was OLIVER. I think the book is a reasonable and acceptable condensation of the original Dickens novel. The score is brilliant with so many memorable tunes. And I've seen it done SO successfully in the round, on basically blank stages, and in elaborate settings. It lends itself to a multitude of stagings with terrific results.

Posted by Matt H. @ 09/09/2003 02:12 PM PST

BTW, Dave, you have succesfully changed my attitude towards school :)...for now anyway. Later, when I'm immersed in page upon page of history homework, my outlook may change a bit. VERY good way of thinking about it :)

Posted by Sarah @ 09/09/2003 02:13 PM PST

In the second one, the answer will always be a integral multiple of 9, which all have the same symbol. For me, I would have preferred the Star of David.

Posted by steveg @ 09/09/2003 02:14 PM PST

Dave. thank you for that amazing list! It's really mind-boggling to think of how many musicals played in the last 70 years or so, not just the sixties alone!

I can't believe I forgot to list some of the more current British musicals in my list of favorites! I love POTO, Les Miz and Miss Saigon. Cats may have been my first Broadway show but these days it induces the same response in me as it did to Brent in yesterday's story!

As of now, I am inclined to agree with Sarah that school is utterly pointless. Of course it isn't in reality, but when you have to read a 40-page chapter....

Today is my mom's birthday and we will soon be heading out to Olive Garden! Yay! I could get full off of those endless soup and salads alone...

Posted by Maya @ 09/09/2003 02:19 PM PST

Dave,

Amazing lists - thanks.

Isn't it interesting that so many of the under-500s played at the Mark Hellinger and Lunt-Fontanne theatres? I recall the former being the most beautiful of all the grand theatres, the latter being the tackiest.

Is there any, any possibility that the Mark Hellinger will ever again be a legitimate theatre?

Posted by Dan-in-Toronto @ 09/09/2003 02:21 PM PST

Dave:
Your list of under 500 performances is missing "Her First Roman", another "winner" that I saw in the '60s.

Posted by steveg @ 09/09/2003 02:26 PM PST

steveg -- Thanks for the explanation, but I liked it better when it was all a mystery.

Posted by TCB @ 09/09/2003 02:30 PM PST

But Steve's explanation isn't complete...at least not yet. The puzzle does not say to take a number, reverse the digits, and subtract. It says to "jumble" the digits. So that creates more possibilities. For example, I chose the digits 912 (Friday's date. Hmmmm...wonder why?) Jumble them, and you arrive at 219. Subtract that from 912, and the answer is 693. Now, the sum of those digits is a *multiple* of 9, but not *equal* to 9. That makes the calculations a bit trickier, I would imagine.

I haven't figured out the other puzzle yet, though. Steve suggests that the symbol will always be the same. Not true. I have done the calculation with several different outcomes, and the "psychic" got it right each time. But here's the weird part: when I chose a random symbol and clicked on the link, it was always wrong. It only works if you do the math....

ooooooohhhhhh.....

Posted by Dave @ 09/09/2003 03:02 PM PST

Dave:
When you add the digits in 693, you get 18, which when added together again gets 9. The sum of the digits, no matter what will always be 9 or a multiple of 9 therefore. You can alway figure out the missing digit because you give the remaining digits and the missing one can be only one possibility, depending on the sum you get with the numbers you have. In some instances that missing number can be a 0 or a 9, but the trick has been set up to preclude your crossing out a 0, so in those instances where it could be a 0 or 9, the answer would be 9. On the second problem, the answer will always be a multiple of 9 (10x+y -(x+y)) equals 9x, always a multiple of 9. If you look at the chart, each multiple of 9 had the same symbol next to it.

Posted by steveg @ 09/09/2003 03:14 PM PST

Well, I'm home from what has been a very long day. I went to the audition, arriving at around 10:20 (it started at 10:00), and when I walked in the room, I was horrified to see that there were 80...yes, 80...people there to audition for three roles...and half of them were Juds. I didn't even get to sing until 1:00, right before the director's lunch break, which is always one of the worst times to go in, and quite frankly, I didn't sing as well as I normally do. I wasn't horrible...I wasn't even bad...just mediocre, IMHO. Apparently they thought so, too, because they said their "thank you's" and I was done. I'm not expecting to receive any phone calls this evening. Thank you all for your positive vibes throughout this whole 5-month audition ordeal. Its meant a great deal to me. But, don't cry for me, Argentina...there'll be other auditions. Its just how this business works, right?

Favorite British musicals: EVITA, PHANTOM, LES MIZ, BLOOD BROS. and DROOD (Mr. Holmes is British, isn't he?). Believe it or not, I don't enjoy OLIVER! at all. Not one bit. Go figure.

Posted by Jason @ 09/09/2003 03:16 PM PST

I've cracked it guys..

That whole add a two digit number's parts together thing and then subtract is actually part of a true mathematical proof. You will always get nine or a multiple of nine.

All of the multiples of nine are assigned the same symbol in the list.

This site fools you into thinking it is actually psychic because you will keep getting different symbols for your response.

This is because the site automatically reshuffles the symbols among the multiples of nine.

For example, the first time I did the test the nine was a cross (as was the eighteen and thirty-six etc.) When I reloaded the page the nine became a water symbol (and the same for the other multiples).

Posted by Emily @ 09/09/2003 03:18 PM PST

Aren't we all mathematically wonderful today? :)

Now back to your regularly scheduled nonsense (as opposed to this number proof nonsense)...

Posted by Emily @ 09/09/2003 03:19 PM PST

L'etat, c'est moo!

(transl: "I'm Bossy around here!")

Posted by Elsie @ 09/09/2003 03:32 PM PST

Puuuuush

Posted by bk @ 09/09/2003 03:58 PM PST

Jason, I am still going to keep those good vibes going out to you. Even if you think you were only mediocre, you have no idea what they thought. Don't give up so soon. With all of us at this site believing in you, how could you ever go wrong?

Posted by TCB @ 09/09/2003 04:13 PM PST

Where in tarnation IS
everyone, doing their maths?

I am going to try and leave
early today, since I worked
until seven-thirty last night.

Posted by bk @ 09/09/2003 04:19 PM PST

Here's a topic for some discourse if anyone is game:

The Max Steiner Society, founded when Steiner was alive and exceedingly pleased to have a fan base, has been -- for the past 30-plus years -- a source for tape recordings of Steiner's "own" copies of his work. The late Tony Thomas, on behalf of the Steiner Society, pressed "For Members Only" recordings of Steiner's work -- quite a few of them, in fact. They are all archival in sound (nowadays, that applies to all monaural recordings, it seems) but they reflect the genius that was Steiner...and they preserved from decay/destruction the works of Steiner which Warner Brothers was never interested in commercially.

Until now.

The curator of the library was recently served a cease and desist order by Warner Brothers threatening legal action if this wholesale ripoff of their "intellectual property" did not end. The curator destroyed all his master tapes and closed the website.

The composer-sanctioned Society has foundered.

For corporate greed.

However: Warner Brothers, as a DVD label, has been releasing restored versions of its classic films of the 1930s and 1940s and has been including isolated music tracks from their archives -- archives which are hardly definitive since Steiner took the acetates of his own scores (probably out of the trash heaps at WB) and they now reside at BYU, which has been issuing Steiner material all cleaned up and gussied up with incredibly literate, academic even, booklets featuring artwork from the films and having discussions by experts on Steiner's music.

Some folks in the community are taking this news very harshly. And one or two are braying at them and calling them names -- must uncivil and uncouth behaviour on the part of so-called professionals.

What do y'all think about such things?

Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 09/09/2003 04:44 PM PST

What are we having here, a
siesta? Get off those butt
cheeks and let's get to 100
count them 100 posts, shall
we? These afternoon/early
evening lulls are lullifying.
Let's have more UK musicals -
for example, what about Mr.
Noel Coward's Bittersweet,
from whence came If Love
Were All? I used to have a
rather amazing collection of
Brit cast album LPs, some of
which will probably never see
the light of day on CD. I used
to love the Expresso Bongo
album, which IS on CD, and
there was a Danny LaRue
show called, I think, Come Spy
with Me or something like it.
And what are the other David
Heneker shows? And who
wrote Charlie Girl? Now post,
you people, post.

Posted by bk @ 09/09/2003 04:44 PM PST

Ron, my understanding is that
they did not destroy
mastertapes. What they were
asked to destroy were any
extant CDs and cassettes.

I still haven't heard ANY
"official" word about any of this,
despite my asking someone
who works at WB.

Posted by bk @ 09/09/2003 04:47 PM PST

Oh, this math! I can't stand it. (Singing in the Rain reference.)

DR William Orr made it sound as if the reviews of my show were mixed. Seemed to me that someone named Pip had "great expectations" unfulfilled, and one other respondant said the cast didn't bring out the humor in my book. All the others were raves. They have a five star scale and 10 of 13 respondants gave it 5 and 1 gave it 4 and Oh no! We're doing math again.

What a decade, those sixties! I look at the list and think that not a single decade since has given us two or three shows that are nearly as good as, say, the top ten on that list. And it all appeared to be petering out during the season about which William Goldman wrote The Season.

But quality is subjective; look at quantity. The number of new Broadway musicals produced since the sixties is less than the number of musical produced during the 60's, and, oh no! Math Again!

Posted by Noel @ 09/09/2003 04:56 PM PST

I was just spit up on by a baby 3 times in 2 hours. There aren't many things that make me queasy, but that's one of them. Ew ew ew ew ew, remind me never to have children.

I did forget to mention that I had the best conversation with my science teacher from last year today. I usually go and hang out in his room during my lunch period, as the food from our school is slightly less than appetizing, and I'd rather get HW done. I had mentioned that my friends were going to see the last performance of "CABARET" on B'Way, and he whipped around and yelled, "I DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE INTO MUSICAL THEATER!" -big shocker, as I was one of 2 freshmen IN the musical last year-, and we proceeded to have a great half hour conversation about various shows. Upon meeting him, and knowing him for a year, I never once knew he was into this stuff. I was happily amazed. It was very very cool.

Oh, and I got a "celebrity response" today, this one from John Travolta. I had sent this one as a request for an autograph for Best Friend Aly's MOTHER. Back in the day, she was a flight attendant, and was cleaning out planes. One time, she boarded to start cleaning, and who was the pilot, but young, budding star John Travolta. She wasn't a huge fan, but had a friend who was downright obsessed. She told him about her friend, and asked for an autograph to give to her. He obliged, and don't you know 5 months later he's a HUGE star. She's always regretted not talking further, so I decided to see if I could get one for her. Today I recieved 2 signed photos today, one addressed to me, and one addressed to "Dearest Cynthia, hoping this makes up for lost opportunity :)", signed by him.

Cool, huh?

Posted by Sarah @ 09/09/2003 04:57 PM PST

I don't know what it looks like in other parts of the country, but the moon looks absolutely stunning tonight from my apartment in Brooklyn. Sometimes ya have to stop and notice things, I guess.

Posted by Jason @ 09/09/2003 05:08 PM PST

It would appear Georgy had Book by Tom Mankiewicz; Lyrics by Carole Bayer; Music by George Fischoff. I assume the lyricist later added Sager to her name and the librettist was a fellow who appeared on a weekly basis, in my home when I was growing up, at my dad's poker game. But Mankiewicz is such a common name

Posted by Noel @ 09/09/2003 05:13 PM PST

Sarah, that is so cool! I had no idea about Mr. Lemp's interest in musical theatre! Hmm weren't there three or four freshmen in the musical last year?

Posted by Laura II @ 09/09/2003 05:14 PM PST

So as I careen toward a script deadline this week, I say to my lovely wife, Julieanne, about 2:15 or so, "Let's go for a late lunch before I start work, That way I won't have to stop work for dinner once I get going." So we go to a little down-home al fresco place in our neighbourhood have a lovely lunch, fueled by a little champagne...crap champagne, but it gets you to that mellow place you want to be on a lovely California fall afternoon. Then on the way home, we stop by a little used record/CD shop in the area and find a treasure trove of original cast recordings albums going for 99 cents a pop. Stuff like Do Re Mi, Darling of the Day, High Button Shoes, Do I Hear a Waltz, I Had a Ball, Fanny, many mnay others... several which a few years back I had shelled out 20, 30, 40 bucks to own...like Kean. We also got Judith Anderson & Anthony Quayle doing Medea on records and Incident at Vichy...for very cheap. We stopped after about forty-five bucks, but I may have to go back at some point. Now if I'd just get all the stuff I need to set up my CD burner...All in all, a pretty pleasant day...

Posted by Charles Pogue @ 09/09/2003 05:15 PM PST

What a find!!!

Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/09/2003 05:24 PM PST

Whoops! Right you are dear Wauwa, I accidentally typed two, and there were, correction, THREE of us freshmen in le musical last year. Myself, Miss Dickson, and Mr. Famighletti...ah, memories...:)

Posted by Sarah @ 09/09/2003 05:25 PM PST

DR Jason:

The moon is stunning here, too. Thanks for the heads up.

Posted by Dan-in-Toronto @ 09/09/2003 05:30 PM PST

Dontcha love stumbling across a great cache of wonderful recordings!!!

It's happened to me before...but now I have most everything I ever wanted. If I bought anything on LP, I'd convince myself I'm doing it to preserve it until someone worthy comes along I could give it to.

Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 09/09/2003 05:49 PM PST

Kiss My Razz-Mat-Ass!

Posted by Muzzy @ 09/09/2003 05:51 PM PST

Pounce!

Posted by Ugh` @ 09/09/2003 05:51 PM PST

A couple of chats ago, DR Joy asked about Judy Kuhn's version of Who Are You Now. The lyrics were different from the original ones, Joy pointed out.

Instead of:
How is the view,
Sunny and green?
How do you compare it to
The views you've seen?

JK sings:
How is the view,
Sunny and green?
Now that you've walked in my door
and through the dream?

I don't know if this sheds any light on the mystery, but I was just listening to Michael Feinstein's Jule Styne Songbook (with JS on piano). And, yes, Michael sings the "walked in my door and through the dream" version.

In the liner notes, MF and JS schmooze - even about modifying another lyric - but say nothing about changing Who Are You Now.

It bothers me that the revised lyrics don't rhyme (or, even with the near rhyme, maintain the rhyme scheme). I prefer the sentiment in the original lyric, and feel the change affects the integrity of the song.

Does anyone know why or how the lyric got changed?

By the way, the Jule Styne Songbook was recorded in 1991, and Bob Merrill died in 1998 - so Merrill must have known about the revised lyric. I just can't imagine him rewriting it.

Posted by Dan-in-Toronto @ 09/09/2003 06:29 PM PST

No lulls! We must fight the lulls! Battle weaponry out, swords at hand, shields at sides, attack!!! No lulls!

*warrior cry*

Posted by Sarah, Deus Ex Machina @ 09/09/2003 06:57 PM PST

Noel writes:

"I look at the list and think that not a single decade since has given us two or three shows that are nearly as good as, say, the top ten on that list."

Well, as Noel rightly points out, quality is subjective.
I would list some of the following shows from each successive decade to refute that claim (top 5, in no particular order):

1970's:
COMPANY
FOLLIES
SWEENEY TODD
A CHORUS LINE
CHICAGO

1980's:
LES MISERABLES
PHANTOM OF THE OPERA
DREAMGIRLS
INTO THE WOODS
NINE

1990's:
RAGTIME
RENT
SUNSET BOULEVARD
TITANIC
ONCE ON THIS ISLAND

"But quality is subjective; look at quantity. The number of new Broadway musicals produced since the sixties is less than the number of musical produced during the 60's"

That struck me as an interesting statistic, so I decided to find out if it was true. I returned to the Internet Broadway Database, and did a search on the number of musicals produced in each of the decades since 1940. Here is what I found:

1940's: 195
1950's: 146
1960's: 152
1970's: 178
1980's: 142
1990's: 108
2000's (so far): 44

Of course, the increasing number of revivals obscured the *real* number of original musicals premiering in each decade, so I re-ran the search, and removed the revivals from each list. The revised totals:

1940's: 147
1950's: 115
1960's: 144
1970's: 138
1980's: 106
1990's: 72
2000's (so far): 29

So although Noel's remark is far from accurate, it does reflect the fact that fewer new musicals are being produced on Broadway. Needless to say, this does not take into consideration the off-Broadway or Regional theatre scene. If we were to factor those in, I imagine we would see that there are actually more new musicals being produced today than there were 40 years ago. I would be interested to know if anyone has ever done a study that reflects this.

Posted by Dave @ 09/09/2003 07:24 PM PST

Ben, thanks for the nice words about this week's radio show...I thought it would be a fun change of pace to interview an author, but I also realized that I need to include some showtunes to break the interview into sections....the songs were all period songs and are from the wonderful CD sets that were put out by the Metropolitan Opera Guild....the performers were Helen Kane, Irene Bordoni, Helen Morgan, Peggy Wood, Gertrude Lawrence and Libby Holman (whom Mercedes was reportedly involved with too!)....Professor Schanke's PR rep and Schanke himself were very happy with the show and the PR rep has promised to contact me when she has another theatre related book to push.....

Posted by Donald Feltham @ 09/09/2003 07:30 PM PST

I will need to listen to the new Broadway Radio Show as soon as I have time! This week's sounds really interesting.

Well, we had a nice birthday dinner at the Olive Garden for my mom, although the waitors forgot to come over to our table and sing her happy birthday! But we didn't make a fuss about it...

Jason, I agree with TCB that it isn't over til the fat Laurie sings. You still have as much of a chance as anyone else and even if you don't get this one, there's always the next one that you probably will get!

Well, off to do my math homework and then watch the Special Edition Sleeping Beauty DVD that I just bought myself. I don't get paid for like 2 more weeks, but it's so tempting to just buy stuff anyway! I'm so bad...

Posted by Maya @ 09/09/2003 08:19 PM PST

I'm very glad we have Dave around here, to do the dreaded MATH.

I don't think that Dave has made terribly wrong choices for the top 5 shows of recent decades. But I think those 15 shows do not stand up against the quality of these 15 from the 60's

Fiddler on the Roof
Hello, Dolly!
Man of La Mancha
Mame
How to Succeed in Business...
Funny Girl
Oliver
Cabaret
The Apple Tree
She Loves Me
1776
Sweet Charity
On a Clear Day...
110 in the Shade
The Fantasticks

The 60's set the barre pretty high, and reaching this level of greatness in the years since, I'd only put A Chorus Line and maybe one of the better Sondheim shows.

Posted by Noel @ 09/09/2003 08:26 PM PST

Noel,

What's that thing BK always says about horse racing?

I'm a big fan of SHE LOVES ME and 110 IN THE SHADE, but I'm surprised you didn't include GYPSY. Especially given some of the choices on the list.

In any event, I would prefer the 15 shows on my list to the 15 you listed.

The beauty of the contemporary theatre scene is that we get to see the best of the older shows in revivals (which are often better than the originals), while enjoying the new shows, too.

Posted by Dave @ 09/09/2003 08:54 PM PST

Noel,

What's that thing BK always says about horse racing?

I'm a big fan of SHE LOVES ME and 110 IN THE SHADE, but I'm surprised you didn't include GYPSY. Especially given some of the choices on the list.

In any event, I would prefer the 15 shows on my list to the 15 you listed.

The beauty of the contemporary theatre scene is that we get to see the best of the older shows in revivals (which are often better than the originals), while enjoying the new shows, too.

Posted by Dave @ 09/09/2003 08:55 PM PST

Dave - I presume that Noel
excluded GYPSY from his list
because it is from the 50s, not
the 60s! :-)

Posted by Jed @ 09/09/2003 09:54 PM PST

Horseracing is right. Noel notes that he would include Chorus Line and "maybe" one of Sondheim's shows. Dave, in turn, includes Company, Follies, Sweeney Todd and Into the Woods.

This leaves out the Pulitzer Prize-winning Sunday in the Park with George. Now, the Pulitzer isn't necessarily a guage of quality (see Rent), but I would include Sunday in a list of important musicals.

Personally, I find comparing the musicals dating before 1970 to those after that year a little difficult, as the form changed sometime between Cabaret and Company in a way that was as radical as the change musicals underwent sometime in the years encompassing Pal Joey, Lady in the Dark, and Oklahoma! The changes have proven to be less popular than those that Oklahoma! finalized, but they have also proven to be valid ones.

And I do not consider popularity during a show's initial run to necessarily be a valid guage of a work's quality. After all, the original run of Chicago has long been bested by the run of it's revival. It was not popular when Fosse first presented it on Broadway. It just took time for the audience to catch up with the show. It now, for better or worse, has enjoyed a lengthy run as a revival on Broadway, and is now responsible for regenerating interest in the musical on film.

The general audience is changing, about a generation later than the form itself changed. It has taken that long for people to catch up with what the writers have been doing for the last thirty years. Now it just remains to be discovered which new works, along with those already written, the audience finds interesting, provocative, and entertaining. If that isn't horseracing, I don't know what is.

Posted by S. Woody White @ 09/09/2003 11:04 PM PST

Good thoughts, S. Woody. I, too, had a better time at Sunday in the Park than at any other Sondheim show from the past 33 years.

Oklahoma brought about a radical change by being so brilliant, most writers emulated it and the theatre-going public demanded this new kind of show. While Company was certainly revolutionary, I do NOT think anyone else's shows followed suit. Sondheim continued to push the form in new directions, but who else? Those 3-named guys have not written shows that have captured much of the public and oh, there's a huge gap of time between them and Company.

What I'm more puzzled about is why the kind of musical you'd find in the 1960s seems to have vanished. As I said, I can understand why 1930s-style shows vanished: Rodgers and Hammerstein built a better mousetrap. And, while people are explaining things, can somebody explain the success of The Mousetrap?

Posted by Noel @ 09/10/2003 05:46 AM PST

Maybe the theatre is easy to get to, DR Noel....and after all these years, surely tickets are easy to get.

Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/10/2003 05:52 AM PST

Of course, Jed is right. For some reason, I always think of GYPSY opening in 1960, but it did open in May of 1959.

I did originally include SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE on my list, but I wanted to make room for some non-Sondheim shows, lest I give the impression that the only good shows of the past 30 years have come from one composer. Otherwise, I would also have included MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG and PASSION, which I personally enjoy very much.

Posted by Dave @ 09/10/2003 06:05 AM PST

Noel, specifically what sort of shows from the 1960's do you feel have vanished? As I was looking at the list of shows yesterday, I noticed quite a variety of styles, etc.

For one thing, I found that there were quite a few revues in the decades prior to 1970, and that form seems to have all but disappeared. The variety show format on television has followed suit.

But I'm curious, what else did we have that we don't have?

Posted by Dave @ 09/10/2003 06:11 AM PST

DR Jason - I forgot to ask you what you thought of Miss Allison Hayes on "77 Sunset Strip."

Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/10/2003 07:11 AM PST

Dave asks what sorts of shows got produced in the 1960's that don't seem to be produced any more.

Yes, we're not getting a lot of revues any more, specifically those crafted around a particular star's talents.

Come to think of it, we barely get vehicles any more, meant to show off a star's idiosyncratic abilities. Would you count Marie Christine?

Browsing through my list of 15 great shows from the 60's:

The Fantasticks, an elemental story that's about nothing other than young love, that revels in its smallness, with poetic dialogue and jazzy harmonies.

How To Succeed... is my favorite show. Every song in it gets laughs, every one. (Something I endeavored to emulate with Area 51 (http://hometown.aol.com/mprovizr/Index.html) I've noticed that, in recent musical comedy hits like The Full Monty, The Producers, Urinetown and Hairspray, the audience waits for the song to end so they can laugh again. That's because the comedy in the songwriting is not nearly so strong as the dialogue jokes.

1776 - Will we ever see another historical drama that takes its characters seriously?

Cabaret and Fiddler on the Roof effectively dramatize essentially true stories. Stuff very similar to what some of those characters went through happened to some of my relatives.

Beyond the issue of comedy in songs is verbal wit in lyrics. I'm not hearing anything sung on Broadway these days that's as well-stated as Lerner's On a Clear Day words.

And looking through your list of 15 from the past 3 decades, I don't see the sort of BIG production number, the sort that Gower Champion would often do, with what seemed like dozens of dancers pouring out from nowhere.

Somewhere, DR Stephen Farrow has a list of how many revivals were produced on Broadway every year. As the quantity of revivals grew, over the years, it seemed the quantity of new shows diminished.

And I that chord, (D# dim), I go back to my songwriting.

Posted by Noel @ 09/10/2003 07:27 AM PST

Noel,

First of all, it's cheating to include THE FANTASTICKS, since it was never a Broadway show. It ran off-Broadway for all of it's seemingly-eternal run. I would suggest that there are any number of off-Broadway shows that are similar in style and tone to THE FANTASTICKS, but the point is moot. Even as recently as this year, there was a show on Broadway that captured much of the same spirit, and it was called AMOUR. The response to that show seemed to be uniform in the suggestion that it belonged off-Broadway, in a smaller venue.

You also write:

"How To Succeed... is my favorite show. Every song in it gets laughs, every one."

I like H2$, too, but the most recent production I saw played to a pretty quiet house. I would wager that that same audience would be in stitches through many of the numbers in THE PRODUCERS, especially "Springtime for Hitler".

And then you wrote:

"1776 - Will we ever see another historical drama that takes its characters seriously?"

Sure. How about PARADE?

And then:

"Cabaret and Fiddler on the Roof effectively dramatize essentially true stories."

We could argue the same for LES MISERABLES or TITANIC or even DREAMGIRLS.

And we will have to respectfully disagree about Lerner's work for ON A CLEAR DAY. I think his best work was behind him at this point in his career. ("Wrapped in mink or Saran?" Yikes.)

The point about production numbers is well-taken (though it ignores shows such as 42nd STREET), but I think it reflects the current *economic* state of Broadway, rather than the *creative* state of the industry. It's simply too expensive to hire that many actors/dancers for such numbers. That doesn't mean that there aren't numbers that lend themselves to such treatment.

I must say, doing this quick bit of research has been very informative for me. I was quite surprised to find that the number of new shows produced in the 1950's and 1960's was not nearly so high as we are often led to believe. And many of the shows that were produced then would never get done today, unless it was off-Broadway (or off-off-off-Broadway...)

I have always said that those who decry the loss of the 'good old days' of the Great White Way were over-stating their case, but I have to admit I was surprised to see how much the numbers make that point for me.

Posted by Dave @ 09/10/2003 08:07 AM PST