haines his way

09/17/2003:
"WITH HOT FUDGE ON TOP"

Well, dear readers, every other Tuesday at work a woman called Charles Chips shows up with many interesting candies and snacks. And everyone from our office goes out and gives her lots of money for said interesting candies and snacks. For example, yesterday I gave her money for Sour Gummi Fruit Salad. I don’t know what it is but it looked good. Someone else bought Dark Chocolate Pistachio Nuts, and someone else bought a bag of Teriyaki Beef Bits. I myself would never buy a bag of Teriyake Beef Bits, but I do not look askance at those who do. She has many other candies and chips and things and it is all very exciting and simply too too when Charles Chips arrives.
Tonight, after two postponements, is our Unseemly Live Chat. It will happen no matter what – and we will have a lively and sparkling chat and we will discuss many various and sundried topics and it will all be very exciting and simply too too. Be there or be round.
Yesterday, someone told me that they thought “plenty” of people didn’t read these here notes, that “plenty” of people simply skipped to the end and posted. I told them that I disagreed, that I thought maybe one or two (I could probably guess the names of the one or two because it becomes fairly obvious after awhile) at the most did such a thing, but no, they insisted that it was “plenty”. Now, is this true? Are there “plenty” of people who skip these here notes? You can say the truth because maybe I’ll just cut back on writing them. Of course, the other thing is the person who said that “plenty” of people were/are skipping the notes is wrong. Let’s have a poll – how many of you read the notes, how many of you skim the notes, and how many of you skip the notes in their entirety? You will not be bitch-slapped no matter what your answer. Well, maybe you’ll be bitch-slapped just a little, but in a friendly way with hot fudge on the top.
I finally finished watching Silk Stockings. I liked it just fine, but it never really “got” me. I do think Eugene Loring is a very unsung choreographer, and one scene was absolutely magical – the Silk Stockings ballet, performed by Cyd Charisse. The little documentary on the disc was fun, and I also watched the little documentary on the Les Girls disc.
Well, why don’t we all click on the Unseemly Button below because I must hie myself to the Oaks of Sherman to work all the livelong day, oh, yes, I shall work all the livelong day, with hot fudge on top, of course.

Last night we began work on our little Kritzerland CD. Grant is terribly busy right now so I don’t quite know how long it will take to complete it, but we are working on it and that at least is progress. We did a rather fun arrangement of High Hopes, along with Guess Things Happen That Way and Poor Little Fool. Grant will work on those, and then we’ve got two others to do and then voila, we shall have a little mini-CD.
I found it only slightly amusing that the one piece I have had nothing to do with here at work was sent to the network who sent it back with a ton of notes. When I’d first seen the initial cut I said as loudly as I could that it was not good and didn’t tell a story and I was precluded from doing what I normally would have done. Well, I hate to say it, but I was right and they should have listened because now they are about to do what I would have originally done. One thing I have learned – no matter what type of show, a story must be told.
Also, I’m now in my new office with my new roommate and it’s very pleasant actually. She’s not in there much, nor am I.
Well, dear readers, I must take the day, I must do the things I do, I must work all the livelong day, I must eat luncheon but not dinner or dinner but not luncheon, I must try and get some sleep and I must try and watch a DVD. Today’s topic of discussion: It’s Ask BK Day, the day in which you get to ask all your excellent questions. And, you can also Ask Dear Readers too, any old excellent questions you might have. Let’s have loads of lovely posts, shall we?

Replies: 150 Unseemly Comments

Dancing can hurt!
Posted by Noel @ 09/17/2003 07:44 AM PST

I saw a production of GODSPELL about ten years ago, which did little to "update" the piece, and it was *terrific*. I saw another production two years ago, in which the director tried to superimpose his "concept" on the show, and it was dismal.
The two most recent cast recordings (the 2000 Off-Broadway and the 2000 Touring production) do update the arrangements of some of the songs, and it works quite well, IMO.
I would argue that even more than a talented director and a talented musical director, this shows requires a very talented cast, and that cast needs to bond early to function as a true ensemble. Each member of the cast has his/her moment to shine, but it is the relationships between the characters that give the show its impact at the end.
I read an announcement yesterday that Lincolnshire in Chicago will be doing BEAUTY AND THE BEAST as part of their season next year. Jason, does that mean what I think it means?
Lincolnshire have also announced that they will be staging SUNSET BOULEVARD. Does that mean that Rodgers & Hammerstein will have a press release soon, too?
Hmmmmm.....
Posted by Dave @ 09/17/2003 07:49 AM PST

I actually look quite forward to the BK notes each day and have to say that indeed I do not skip over them. As well I do try to read all of the posts...although on the days we had well over 100 it was rather time consuming!
Oh, golly I do not have a BK question of the day nor a DR question of the day...maybe after I down some coffee. We are having goodie day today in our office so I will also stuff myself with sugar laden foods. In my hyperactive state I should be able to think of some questions (which may or may not make any sense).
Posted by MBarnum @ 09/17/2003 07:58 AM PST

Bruce, that is hilarious! Your question of the day is almost surreal. ;-)
If you are not reading this right now, please let me know. ;-)
And anybody who is not here, please raise your hand. ;-)
I confess it was me who suggested that there may be plenty of people who do not read the notes, but I am not one of them. I went on to say that it is the kind of thing that we cannot really know for sure, so there is no point in arguing over it. But BK and I do agree that there are at least *some* people who do not read the notes, as the content of their posts indicates quite clearly. If the word "plenty" caused offense, then I take it back.
Posted by Dave @ 09/17/2003 07:59 AM PST

Dave: Yes, it means that Lincolnshire is doing Beauty and the Beast! Of course, Bucks County announced that they are doing Rent, Millie, Full Monty and Les Miz, so you can't believe everything you read.
You'll find out what MTI's news is when everyone else does. I can't divulge that information to you or anyone else, so if you wouldn't mind, please stop trying to guess. I can promise you this--the announcement will not be life-altering to you or anyone else. It will not make the price of gas go down. It will not stop wars. It will not get Liza to marry a straight man. It will not stop Hurricane Isabel, and it will not affect amateur licensing for at least another three years.
The announcement will be made officially sometime within the next two weeks, I'm sure. In the meantime, sit back, relax and enjoy the ride.
Oh...and BK...I read the notes all the way through--today and most every day. And funny enough, I knew a woman named Charles Chips once, too! Small world, isn't it?
Posted by Jason @ 09/17/2003 07:59 AM PST

I start with BK's note (II) and will continue on to read any note until and unless I find it's on a subject that doesn't interest me. I know nothing of poutrine and big brother, so I'm on to the next. What I'm always hoping to see is something about a musical - why it works or why it doesn't. But I'm not complaining (Ooh! - Maltby & Shire reference) There's enough on every topic around here for just about everybody.
BK question What unrecorded musical would you most like to record?
DR question In ancient Greece, the audience usually knew the entire plot in advance of the show. I'm wondering if any DRs first experienced Parade in a theatre, without knowing the score, but already knowing of the injustice that happened in Georgia all those years ago. Did this hamper your enjoyment?
Posted by Noel @ 09/17/2003 08:03 AM PST

Are we going to start bemoaning the shortcomings of PARADE now? If so, count me out. I happen to enjoy the show very much, and, no...I didn't know the plot before I saw/heard it.
Posted by Jason @ 09/17/2003 08:05 AM PST

Well, I finally just finished listening to the entire Radio Show. I loved it. I had to listen in bits and pieces since I'm busy here at the office but what a lot of fun! Especially Miss Judy Kaye. I love her.
I always read the notes, although if I'm errant and truant for a long period (3 or more days) and there are a plethora of posts (different from the notes, IMHO), I may skim the posts instead of reading them all. Since I read the notes and posts early it's easy to keep up with lots of posts cause you've started at the beginning before there were 50 or 80 or 110.
Question for BK: The neighborhood you describe in both Benjamin Kritzer and Kritzerland is so alive and vivid. Has it changed much in the intervening years? Like, is the house you grew up in still there? Is it still a pleasant neighborhood? Do you go back to the area, that kind of thing.
Nothing to ask Dear Readers right now. Maybe later.
Posted by Ben @ 09/17/2003 08:12 AM PST

Godspell is a terrific show. Yes, like Two Gentlemen of Verona and Hair it's certainly a product of its time. (I love all 3 shows.) But, unlike Hair, it's not about its time. If it's about anything, it's about the kinship, the sense of family, shared by this group of young disciples who eventually mourn losing their Leader. But, in effect, it's more like a revue: Various biblical parables are told in song and story using that marvelous "story theatre" technique. Any production relies on the creativity of its cast and director to make the tales amusing to its audience today.
I once had an idea about telling the story of The French Revolution through a similar technique, but then the bicentennial came and went. Unlike the Gospel, the history of what happened to France doesn't provide a clear and positive "point" we can learn from. Or does it?
Posted by Noel @ 09/17/2003 08:17 AM PST

Forgot to mention to DR Jason,
How wonderful to hear about Mo! I'm so glad for you and happy for him. That's wonderful news.
Posted by Ben @ 09/17/2003 08:17 AM PST

I skim over most of the movie stuff, since I don't know from movies. I skip the Big Brother stuff since I don't watch that, either.
My question for Dear Readers: Does anyone know what is going to go into the Pantages Theater in Hollywood after "The Producers" leaves in January?
I am planning to take a friend to LA for a girls' week out, and I was disappointed to see that "The Producers" will leave in January.
Posted by Old Laura @ 09/17/2003 08:19 AM PST

Thanks, Ben! :-)
Posted by Jason @ 09/17/2003 08:19 AM PST

Jason, sorry if my guessing upset you. I certainly didn't mean to put you on the spot. I'm just always very curious to know about the upcoming shows that I will either be able to see, or be able to take part in (i.e perform, direct, etc.)
I'll take your advice and wait patiently for the announcement.
When I saw the Lincolnshire announcement, I thought I might have missed something from MTI. I had heard (not from you) that the press release was to appear this week.
Again, sorry to bother you.
I enjoyed PARADE the very first time I heard the CD, and I was not at all familiar with the historical story. It did, however, prompt me to research the story, so when I saw the show on stage, I was much more familiar with the events and the people involved. So I can't say how much my enjoyment of the show would have been affected by prior knowledge of the events. In any case, it is truly a tragedy.
Posted by Dave @ 09/17/2003 08:24 AM PST

I have now had 4 of the homemade chocolate chip cookies that the gal from payroll brought in and it is not even 8:30 am yet! Argh! I was just complaining yesterday on how it seems my clothes are shrinking a lot lately and I am going to have to stop putting them into the dryer...now I will have to stop washing them in hot water also (even though I actually use cold water).
Hmmm...did I see some chocolate brownies over there...
Posted by MBarnum @ 09/17/2003 08:26 AM PST

I read the notes even though I'm rushing to catch a plane.
Posted by Jane @ 09/17/2003 08:27 AM PST

Hello everyone! A thousand
apologies for my long period
of E&T-ness. School started
up and I was swept away in a
tidal wave of homework and
music practice and other
various things. But I did not
stop reading these here notes,
no indeed. To answer BK's
question, I always read the
notes. If I miss a few days, I
go back and read the archives.
Hey, I just noticed something.
I thought that button read
"Pursue The Archives" but it in
fact reads "peruse the
archives" is that an error? or
is it just my computer?
Anyway, I read, and I do try to
read all the posts, but
sometimes, when there are
lots of them, I confess I don't.
I shall try to post more often,
now that things have settled
down. And I'm happy that the
chat is tonight, because I can
actually make it! Yay!
Posted by Ann @ 09/17/2003 08:27 AM PST

I'm sorry, DR Noel, but I'm not sure it's fair to judge Parade by whether or not we, the other DRs, have seen it in a theater. There are many areas across the nation (and predictably worldwide) that still have not had a fully staged professional production of the musical at all. In fact, the Los Angeles Times Calendar section just today has a review of the first really good look at the show SoCal has had, a semistaged concert produced by the Musical Theater Guild. (It's a good review, fortunately.)
(An aside to BK: The review favorably singles out Misty Cotton as the actress playing the female lead, Lucille. The name rings a bell somehow, but I can't place her right off. Have you worked with her?)
Not yet having seen Parade doesn't mean I'm not familiar with the show to some degree. I've listened to the Cast Recording several times, and have the published script packed away somewhere. I can honestly say that I knew little, if anything, about the Frank trial and lynching before the musical was staged. Most of what I know now about the case is what I've learned from the musical. Has this lack of knowledge prevented me from enjoying the musical? Not at all. I'd say that my lack of familiarity has probably increased my enjoyment of the show, since I've had no preconceptions or prejudices about the material.
If someone were to write a serious musical about Charles Lindberg, what familiarity with the subject I have would probably interfere with my enjoyment of the show. But that's another story.
Posted by S. Woody White @ 09/17/2003 08:30 AM PST

Ann: "peruse" means "to read or examine, usually with great care."
On the days I visit HHW, I always read the notes. Sometimes I skim them, while other times I savor every word, but I always read them. Same deal with the posts.
To Read an Interesting Opinion Piece Regarding Broadway (and from an unlikely source, at that), click on my name.
Posted by Lulu @ 09/17/2003 08:38 AM PST

SWW, your mention of a Lindberg musical reminded me that I had once stumbled upon a website promoting a musical about the Lindberg baby. Click my name for the link.
Posted by Dave @ 09/17/2003 08:41 AM PST

Ok, here is my question for Los Angeles area DRs...as I am visting L.A. next week my buddy Ron and I are trying to find some fun stuff to do. Last time we went down there we saw a fun play in West Hollywood called WHEN PIGS FLY which starred JM J. Bullock...would love to see another funny play or concert or something while there...so, what is a good resource to check that would have a listing of what is going on down there entertainment wise?
Posted by MBarnum @ 09/17/2003 08:43 AM PST

Well, bk, today I read the notes the whole way through. I sometimes do this. Other times I skim them. (::cowering in a corner:: "I'm sorry, I'm sorry! I'll kiss your...derrière!") Yes, I don't like to use curse words. Yes, I have used them before. Yes, I'll usually say them if they are scripted, as they were in scenes I participated in on Monday. As the assistant at the performing arts academy where I work, I am the fill-in for scenes when we do not have enough people. Hmm something tells me the teacher could choose scenes without those words, especially the instances of using the Lord's Name in vain, which I absolutely refuse to do. (I wouldn't do it in Grease, and I even asked the director if we could omit it in others' lines. He said no.)
So I guess my question for the dear readers today is what is your opinion about bad language and potentially offensive things said on stage? Have you ever been involved in something that incorporated lines or actions that bothered you so much that you didn't feel morally right in performing them? (Sorry for being so wordy!)
and my question for bk: was the Annie revival ever recorded? I was under the impression that it never was, but someone said it was recorded with Joanna Pacitti. What's the real answer?
Posted by Laura II @ 09/17/2003 08:46 AM PST

Hi everyone!
BK... of course I read your notes! I will admit though that I sometimes skim them. But that's only sometimes. :)
So is chat really today? Will that very fact get me through yet another God awful CRISIS, CONFLICT AND WAR class? Will I become like that same awful teacher and ask lots of questions that I'll never answer?
What is conflict? What is violence? How do we resign ourselves to... oy.
I don't really have a question for you today BK. Well other than "what is conflict etc." but I would never foist that question on anyone. :)
As for PARADE... well, I think you all know where I stand on that the question of its merits as a show. For Christ's sake, I have the window card framed in my room! Did I know anything about the Franks pre-hearing the cast album (I never saw a live production)? No. Did it diminish or improve my liking of the show... I don't know. I unfortunately don't have the skills to go back in time and learn about a Georgian murder trial before seeing the musical about said Georgian murder trial and make up my mind about whether knowing about the Georgian murder trial possibly changed my outlook on the musical.
What I DO know is that I enjoy it. The music is stirring, the characters for the most part are interesting and sympathetic - including the "bad guys".
Who here can honestly hear "The Old Red Hills of Home" and not feel something?
But then again, I don't want to start a five part essay war. :)
I love JRB. I love Brent Carver. I love Carolee Carmello. How could I not love PARADE?
Posted by Emily @ 09/17/2003 08:46 AM PST

Laura,
I have been known to use not bad but "overtly descriptive" language on occasion. Although I do still get surprised when I hear the f-word either coming from someone else or my own mouth. It's weird, because as far as words go, that one is very run of the mill.
I'm guessing that you are a pretty devout christian based on your refusing to "take the Lord's name in vain" (whatever on Earth that actually means - it's been debated over and over again by New and Old Testament scholars). While I understand that you might not want to say certain words or terms, I cannot understand your logic in asking that others in your production of Grease not use them.
That's a quick jump over from fufilling your own faith requirements to censorship is it not?
Posted by Emily @ 09/17/2003 08:56 AM PST

BK, I always read your notes and I try to read most if not all of every DR's post every day. Sometimes it's difficult if it's a busy school day, but this here website is one of the things I enjoy doing most every day and I truly savor the wisdom and wit of every DR here.
Ann--welcome back!
I've never seen a production of Parade, and it's one of the cast recordings that I DON'T have, but I've heard a few of the songs like "You Don't Know This Man" and "All the Wasted Time" and I think those songs are glorious. And Carolee Carmello's voice gives me chills.
Laura II--I personally have no objection to cursing on stage for two reasons. One, I curse like a sailor at home anyway and two, I try to think of the character saying it and not me. But I completely understand and respect those who don't like to curse onstage, or say anything that they personally find blasphemous.
BK--I have a question for you! Why do they call it summer stock when shows run in other seasons besides summer too? I've never understood that!
Well, off to class...
Posted by Maya @ 09/17/2003 09:11 AM PST

Emily, I understand your view, and as I'm not one to debate things or argue, I have no rebuttal. So good vibes all around!~~~~~~~
Another question to all: How many of you may be affected by Hurricane Isabel? My friends at the College of William and Mary were evacuated. I guess the good part is that I will see them earlier than I planned (I am supposed to go see them next weekend), but I really wish none of this were happening. I just hope there's not too much destruction and that everything goes back to normal soon.
Posted by Laura II @ 09/17/2003 09:14 AM PST

Laura, I do have a distinct distaste for vulgar language in films and stage. There are times it might need to be used, but I hate watching a movie where every other word is a curse word. I don't see a reason for it. Unfortunately, I have been known to use a curse word or two but I do try to keep it to a minimum...I will admit I never used a curse word until I was in high school, though and even then it was very, very rare. I am more of a darn-it or dagnabit sort of guy (most of the time).
How about graphic violence, does that bother anyone when watching a film? I don't really feel the need to see someones brains splatter all over the screen. I rather preferred the subtle off screen violence often used in older films (although there are also certainly a number of vintage movies that use graphic violence. But then I do like NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, so go figure.
As for using curse words when acting on the stage...fortunately most of the world has been spared my brief stint on the stage, but if there were a role that required me to spout out a lot of 4 letter words I didn't feel comfortable saying, then I would likely not take the role.
Posted by MBarnum @ 09/17/2003 09:25 AM PST

The revival of Annie was not
recorded - I was the only one
thinking about doing it, but I
didn't like the production all
that well.
I haven't worked with Misty but
I've seen her in tons of stuff
and she's very very talented.
Posted by bk @ 09/17/2003 09:31 AM PST

My dear BK,
I always read your notes, in fact sometimes I wish there were MORE opinion and rant than there sometimes is. But I know you rely on us DR's for most of that!
I think the score to Parade is one of the best-written I have heard in years. But as well all know from our beloved cast albums, a beautiful and moving score (The Grass Harp a perfect example) doesn't always translate into a terrific overall experience in the theatre.
I am in Richmond, VA, direct on Isabel's path. It's supposed to be at its worst here tomorrow night. It will hopefully be a tropical storm by then (winds under 70 mph) and we will get somewhere between 6-10 inches of rain in 24 hours. Hopefully the power outages will not last too long. Send your good wishes our way -- DR Jose, be glad you are not home right now!
Posted by Philip Crosby @ 09/17/2003 09:33 AM PST

BK,
Did you ever see ANNIE when Rhodes Reason starred back in the 1980s? How was it! He has a suprisingly wonderful singing voice I think.
Posted by MBarnum @ 09/17/2003 09:33 AM PST

The exec of our show just
came in and told me that next
week would be my last. They
simply don't have the money
for this show, and while I've
managed to keep them exactly
on their schedule, the fact that
the one show I had nothing to
do with came back and has to
be redone from scratch has
now thrown them completely
askew budget-wise. He was
very complimentary to me,
though, and really, I was
originally told the job would be
over by the first week of
October, so I'm only missing a
week or so of pay. It's hard to
believe but I've already been
here nine weeks.
Posted by bk @ 09/17/2003 09:33 AM PST

Maybe I better refine the DR question:
Who here saw Parade in a theatre?
If you did, were you familiar with the score in advance?
If you did, were you familiar with the plot in advance?
And, to all DRs: Have you ever attended a new show, knowing the plot in advance (just as the ancient Greeks did)? If so, what effect did this foreknowledge have on your enjoyment of the show?
S. Woody White writes: "I'm not sure it's fair to judge Parade by whether or not we, the other DRs, have seen it in a theater. There are many areas across the nation (and predictably worldwide) that still have not had a fully staged professional production of the musical at all."
I didn't mean to make anyone feel left out if they've not had the opportunity to see Parade. But I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree about whether it's fair to judge a show by how it plays in a theatre (rather than, say, how it plays on a cast album). Mssrs. Brown and Uhry created a piece of theatre, not a concept album, and their primary responsibility is to entertain the live audience that paid all that money to see it.
(You'll notice I haven't offered an opinion about Parade.)
Some shows, IMHO, play great on records and not-nearly-as-great in the theatre: Mack & Mabel, Do I Hear a Waltz?, A Tree Grows In Brooklyn, Out of This World and even Jesus Christ Superstar (but JCS was a concept album)
Posted by Noel @ 09/17/2003 09:34 AM PST

I always read the notes.
That is what attracted me to HHW to begin with. Then of course, I started posting, which is addictive. And talking with all the interesting people here at HHW has been invigorating.
PARADE has passed me by, but that's okay - that's what makes horse racing.
Well...hmmm...I have had to curse onstage...smoke...be naked...well I just always read the script and if I don't want to do what it calls for, I don't audition. I don't want to be uncomfortable and I just assume the director will do the show "as written."
As a member of the board (and a director) in community theatre, I have to say that the some members of the public are very vocal about what they don't want to see or hear on our stage...and it's tough to find a play or musical that will please everybody. One patron told me after THE GLASS MENAGERIE that she thought we should use candy cigarettes and that the actors shouldn't really smoke onstage. So there you are - you can't please everybody. But if you think you might be offended, don't assume EVERYBODY will be - then again don't assume EVERYBODY will think everything happening onstage is all right. It's just a play. Stay home, don't audition, there are a lot of options.
My question for ASK BK day - when someone such as Taina Elg comes in to do her little piece for the DVD - in this case LES GIRLS - is she entirely scripted? Does she get to talk to the writer and do you think she was/is fairly free to express her opinion?
AND do you prefer a conversational commentary (like the one on BEGINNING OF THE END, and Rosemary Clooney's on WHITE CHRISTMAS) or one that is full of information from someone who wasn't there, but does offer some professional insight (TITANIC, not Dalton & Wagner of course, but the other two....uh..experts)?
Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/17/2003 09:41 AM PST

Well, I'm back from being E&T, sorry about that. Maya, did you get my tape yet?
BK -- I always read the notes, but like some others here, I often skim over parts I'm not interested in (for example, I don't know from transfers and obscure movies).
I think some of you DRs are getting a little tiny bit defensive of Parade. DR Noel is not bashing Parade, he just has a healthy obsession for figuring out why some shows work and are loved and some aren't, for what draws an audience in and what turns them away. The man writes musicals, for crying out loud, he has to know these things!!
;o)
DR Laura II:
I think that one of the worst things you can do as an actor is to judge and/or to censor your character. The words a character uses show you who they are. The writer took great pains to choose exactly the right words for that character to say, and any deviation from those words is disrespectful to the author, not to mention it can substantially alter the story you're telling.
I always say, if you can't do it, don't do it. If you can't say "Shit Richie" and talk about "Tits and Ass" then don't do A Chorus Line! As an actor, you always have the choice to accept a role or not. If you can't say what the character says, don't take the role.
You have to remember that it's not YOU saying the bad words, it's the character. You are telling a story and it is NOT your place to judge. And asking others in your production to limit their acting to live up to your set of morals and your ideas about religion and God is just plain wrong.
There is this girl enrolled at the Circle in the Square Theatre School who is a devout Mormon. She played the violin for a production of La Ronde, which involves a lot of sex and some nudity. She didn't interfere with the production, she didn't sit in judgment or foist her views on anyone else, she just sat there and did her job without complaining. She didn't watch the show and she read a book or simply turned away from the stage while the offensive parts were going on. She has my utmost respect for standing by her own morals while not expecting others to live up to them. I'm sure in her career she will be limited by the kinds of roles she will be willing to take, but she seems to be willing to make that sacrifice for something she believes in. Brilliant.
Posted by Joy @ 09/17/2003 09:42 AM PST

LauraII of course is talking about something a bit different, now - and that is she is working as an assistant. She did not choose to do the scene or the character, but is used as a fill-in by the instructor when there aren't enough people to read a scene - so it's part of her job and she really has no choice.
I guess she is in a tough spot and eventually the instructor will either stop asking her to read those parts, or she will have to find another job.
I don't have an answer, I just realized that my post above really didn't apply to her situation!
Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/17/2003 09:51 AM PST

Noel asks:
"Who here saw Parade in a theatre?"
I did not see the Broadway production, but I saw the University of Michigan production, which was modelled very closely on the Broadway. (It was *very* well done, by the way, as are most of the UofM productions.)
"If you did, were you familiar with the score in advance?"
Yes, I was very familiar with the score.
"If you did, were you familiar with the plot in advance?"
Yes, I was. I believe that Show Music magazine had featured the script in one of their issues. A friend had leant me his copy, so I had read most of it. In addition, I did some research online into the case.
"Have you ever attended a new show, knowing the plot in advance (just as the ancient Greeks did)? If so, what effect did this foreknowledge have on your enjoyment of the show?"
I imagine that it's impossible for me to answer that question, as I can only guess how much I would have enjoyed the show without knowing the plot in advance. I will say that I prefer to see films and plays that are new to me without any prior knowledge of them. That's usually not possible, what with the barrage of marketing, etc., but I do like the experience of seeing a show "fresh".
Sorry to hear about your job, BK. Remember...
"Just pick yourself up,
Dust yourself off,
and start all over again!"
;-)
Posted by Dave @ 09/17/2003 10:02 AM PST

Well after next week then, Mr BK, it's Goodbye, Mrs. Chips!
Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/17/2003 10:06 AM PST

I read BK's notes every day...though I do skim the occasional paragraph!
It's great to hear that work has begun on the Kritzerland CD. If Guy Haines does the same for the third book, between the three we will have a nice long play album from Guy Haines!
Not quite on-topic, but on Monday I went to see Sally Mayes perform in cabaret (her London debut). She's quite a good story teller (as we already knew from the BK-produced 'Story Hour').
My boyfriend, Richard, usually hates cabarets if he doesn't know a lot of the material beforehand. And even though he didn't know most of the songs in the two sets, he absolutely loved the performance. That's how good she was! Thanks, BK, for giving me my first introduction to Sally Mayes.
Posted by Wee Stevie @ 09/17/2003 10:14 AM PST

Oh - I forgot to mention those songs choices give us a nice preview of the novel! 8-D
Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/17/2003 10:16 AM PST

I usually read about 90% of the notes and skim the rest if it is a topic I'm not interested in.
I go through most posts, skipping all the Big Brother notes. When people post song lyrics I usually read the first verse (which covers the purpose of posting these) and skip the rest.
I saw PARADE at Lincoln Center before the CD was released. I knew something of the case from a tv miniseries of a few years prior. I loved the show, partially because I thought it was the perfect mixture of old fashioned book show with music of today. I like the CD, but enjoyed the show more in the theatre because there it was part of a whole (if that makes any sense).
Lulu - Regarding the article you posted shows start at 7:00 only on Tuesdays so that people who live in the NY area but not in Manhattan can get home earlier. It was such a success last season that most shows are doing it again this year.
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 09/17/2003 10:21 AM PST

Such vibrant discussion! So many questions!
DR Vintage Laura: Tours of CHICAGO and STARLIGHT EXPRESS (heaven help us) will be at the Pantages following THE PRODUCERS. For more information, click on my name.
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 10:33 AM PST

I personally have no problem at all with off-colour language. I happen to be a big fan of the work of David Mament, who works in profanity the way some artists work with oils or clay.
With that said, I think it is important to respect the audience, and inform them that certain language will be used in the performance. That way, they know what is in store, and can choose to stay away if they so desire.
Likewise, it is important for the director to make clear to his/her cast that they may be called upon to use such language, so that they can decide whether to audition or not.
As for myself, when I started performing I made a rule for myself: I would never appear in (or direct) a show that I could not invite my parents to. (Bear in mind that my father is a minister....)
Now that they have moved down east, I have modified the rule to: I would never appear in (or direct) a show that I could not bring my son to.
Those rules never precluded my using profanity onstage - though I can't recall a time when I ever have.
Remembering that the words come from the *character* and not the *actor* is an important point. I would add that it is important to distinguish between *portraying* a character's words and actions and *condoning* or *promoting* them. For example, it is one thing to play a Nazi in a play, but if that Nazi is the hero of the play it is another matter altogether.
Posted by Dave @ 09/17/2003 10:37 AM PST

Thanks for the condolences re
job, but it really is only ending
a week early and it really is
sheer drudgery. Now I can
edit the new Kritzer book and
get some sleep. Plus there
are two other things in the
offing which could start mid to
end of October. So, I other
than the missed week or two
of moolah, I am entirely jiggy
with the deal.
I never listen to academic
commentaries, only the ones
by people involved. Taina Elg
and Cyd were most likely
scripted (they're reading the
prompter - watch, it's very
obvious) with their input and
stories.
Posted by bk @ 09/17/2003 10:40 AM PST

DR MBarnum: The LA Weekly and LA Times Calendar section are both good sources for what's going on in town (entertainment-wise) in LaLaLand. Here are their links:
http://www.laweekly.com
http://www.calendarlive.com/
BTW, if you are a Sondheim fan, East West Players (a respected theatre group that mounts shows cast primarily with people of Asian descent) is doing PASSION. It got a very good review in the LA Times. They have a long URL, so click on my name for more information about that.
Tony Kushner's Homebody/Kabul starts previews next week at the Mark Taper Forum, too.
Such a fount of information am I.
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 10:40 AM PST

I try to read all the posts as I am always learning something new from them. The wonderful DR posts have introduced me to many singers that I was totally unaware of, as well as the whole Bollywood industry (yes, some of you DRs are responsible for my new addiction...and you know who you are)which I would not have likely paid any attention to otherwise. And I have also learned a great deal about stage shows, which I had not been familiar with at all previously.
I love to learn and hear of things that are unfamiliar to me and HHW is a wonderful place for that! I treasure all of the diverse posts that I find here!
Posted by MBarnum @ 09/17/2003 10:42 AM PST

BK -
I work on contract, too, and know how it feels when a job comes to an end. I'll miss the details you give us, but look forward to the next chapter.
As for your question: I read (and enjoy) the notes, but in my typically haphazard fashion. By the end of the day, though, I've covered every paragraph.
Now for my BK question: In Lost in Boston, The Ultimate Question, what happened to Take It In Your Stride? It's in the notes, but not on the CD. I know there's got to be a good answer for this one. Thanks.
Posted by Dan-in-Toronto @ 09/17/2003 10:43 AM PST

A question for DR Jason. You mentioned in a post last week that you live in Brooklyn. What part? I spent most of my life in Brooklyn. I grew up on Kings Highway near Flatbush Avenue. When I was done with my schooling, I lived in Brooklyn Heights for about five years before moving to California.
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 10:43 AM PST

BK - I read your notes faithfully every day, except lately I have to read the ones from the weekends on Monday because I still don't have a computer at home. When I first stumbled across HHW, I went through a lot of the archives, but mainly to read your notes, not the daily posts. It was only in the few weeks leading up to my starting to post, that I actually starting reading every single post. However, on some of the days when the posts exceed the 100 mark, I have found myself having to skip through some of the posts that don't interest me personally.
As for saying swear words in a play, I find it more important to decide how my character feels about the words he is using. If the words seem to come out of left field, I will discuss with the director whether or not the character would actually use those words. If the director and I decide it an essential part of the character, I have no problem swearing, even if it is the use of words I myself find offensive.
I can't comment of Parade because I have never seen it on stage, nor have I ever heard the CD. I haven’t been avoiding Parade, or any of Mr. Brown’s work, I just haven’t been exposed to it as yet.
Posted by TCB @ 09/17/2003 10:44 AM PST

Thanks for the "fountain of info" Jay! I will check all of those out. I am hoping to find some nifty shows featuring former TV stars (Dawn Wells anyone?). I think that would be a lot of fun. Or maybe some theaters showing vintage movies! Or maybe some things I hadn't even considered.
Posted by MBarnum @ 09/17/2003 10:45 AM PST

I always read your notes (never know when you might slip a trivia question in). When I don't have my computer home with me over the weekend, I catch up on the weekend notes on Monday AM. If I'm on vacation, I try to catch up on the notes I missed when I didn't have computer acces. I sometimes only get to skim the posts, however,especially when I'm catching up on past notes.
Question for BK:
I finally go to see Once Upon A Time in America, on one of the HBO channels the other night. This was the 227 minute version. A month or so you discussed the 229 minutes DVD version. I agree that this is an excellent, but somewhat confusing picture that I will have to see again to fully appreciate. In your notes you mentioned a flashback scene in the penultimate scene between Woods and DeNiro that you didn't believe was in the 227 minute version, but was in the DVD version. In the version I saw there was a flashback scene in the middle of the Woods-DeNiro scene within Woods' library, where we see all the characters as kids, which ends with the successive handclasping of the kids, and then cuts to Woods and DeNiro in 1968 clasping their hands. Is this the scene you are talking about, or was there another flashback scene not shown in this version that is in the DVD version?
Sorry about your job Bruce, but I'm sure another good opportunity will quickly come your way.
Speaking of jobs, I want to share that my daughter who finished her pediatric residency in July was offered the position she hoped to get as an in-house doctor at a well known facility in NYC that cares for children with chronic illnesses. My wife and I and our daughter are very happy.
Posted by steveg @ 09/17/2003 10:47 AM PST

I was at the PARADE peformance on Monday and agree with the LA Times that Misty Cotton and the entire cast was terrific. This was the largest show that Musical Theatre Guild has mounted, and it looked like they did far more preparation for this than their shows in the past.
I am familiar with the OBC recording, but seeing the story and music played out on stage made the piece all the more moving.
I've seen Misty Cotton in several shows, and she really is quite wonderful. She played Nurse Apple in the recent revival here of ANYONE CAN WHISTLE, did a nice job in SPITFIRE GRILL down in Laguna Beach, and was most superb in the Colony Theatre production of SIDESHOW.
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 10:47 AM PST

Regarding your earlier question, DR Noel, I am a devotee of the opera, and a synopsis of the plot is almost always provided to the audience in the program. Unless the piece is a mystery, I'm not sure whether knowing the plot in advance helps or hinders the audience's appreciation of a piece. For me, most times, it's the telling of the story, in words and music, that brings enjoyment.
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 10:51 AM PST

And lest you think I did not read the notes in which you ask the question, Dear BK, yes I do my best to read your notes and every post that finds its way to this site each day.
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 10:53 AM PST

Dan---
Which version of LOST IN BOSTON do you have... the original or the recent reissue from the label whose name can't be mentioned? It's on the original.
By the way, for original versions of many BK CDs at discount prices, try All Music services in LA. They have many of them and also have lots of other good stuff, often exclusive releases like the LA cast of ZENDA with Chita. And anyone who asks "Chita who?" must be on the wrong site.
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 09/17/2003 11:14 AM PST

Thanks for the info, Jay. When we decided to take our trip, I was all jiggy thinking I could take my friend to see "The Producers," as she has had very very little opportunity to see live theater. We were thinking spring, maybe March. I see that the Pantages will be dark in March. So I guess I'll have to find something else.
Posted by Old Laura @ 09/17/2003 11:19 AM PST

BK: Congratulations!
(BK: For what?
Lulu: I don't know. I couldn't think of anything else to say.)
Neil Simon's "The Goodbye Girl," ladies and gentlemen! Next show at 4:00! Don't forget to make another trip to our all-you-care-to-eat buffet!
WEL: I didn't write the article; I did think it was entertaining and interesting, which was why I provided a link to it.
RE: Profanity. I love profanity. I use it often and affectionately.
Posted by Lulu @ 09/17/2003 11:22 AM PST

BK here is my question: If people don't read the notes then how can they answer the question (since they presumably wouldn't have read the question, right?)
:)
For Laura II and Emily: I can see why someone who didn't believe in (or enjoy) cursing would ask that the cursing be removed from a play. A play like Grease, will be seen by families. I don't think cursing is appropriate for families at all.
I don't really care for cursing. Although this is coming from someone who loves the Osbournes. Go figure (actually I hate that they swear all the time, but i think they are a riot).
Posted by Jennifer @ 09/17/2003 11:34 AM PST

I read the notes every day, as I assume most people do. Although I sometimes skip the movie stuff, since I really know little about the types of movies you watch.
Also, I try to read most of the posts. Although sometimes when there are many I will skim them.
Really what would be the point of posting without reading the notes? The notes are the best part!
Posted by Jennifer @ 09/17/2003 11:39 AM PST

DR Vintage Laura--
There's always plenty of great live theatre to be had in Los Angeles, any time of year. For example, in March, DIRTY BLONDE will be playing at the Pasadena Playhouse. Claudia Shear, who wrote the play and appeared in the titular role (a borderline pun, I would think) on Broadway will be reprising her performance here. Once again, click on my name for more information.
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 11:42 AM PST

Lulu---
I know you didn't write it. I was just explaining something that was mentioned in it for non-New Yorkers who may not have been aware of the reason for the 7:00 curtain.
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 09/17/2003 11:45 AM PST

BK -
Lost in Boston - The Ultimate Collection. Which edition do I have? It's the one my brother sent me.
The most recent copyright date on the outside back cover of the notes is "c 2001 by the label whose name can't be mentioned."
The notes say that cut 16 is I'm Naive; 17 is Take It In Your Stride; 18 is Pink Taffeta Sample Size Ten; 19 is If I Can't Take It With Me.
But the CD only includes: I'm Naive (16); Pink Taffeta (17); If I Can't Take It With Me (18).
The obvious answer is for me to get the original. Still, I'd love to know where in tarnation Take It In Your Stride went.
Posted by Dan-in-Toronto @ 09/17/2003 11:48 AM PST

Yes, I read BK's notes daily the whole way through. I never skim - what's the point of someone blogging if I'm not going to devote my time to reading it, i ask you.
The only time I will skim through the Dear Readers' Posts is when I am seeing what new posts have been made since my last visit.
Truth be told, I find that HHW is marvelous source of information - whether it be about recent dvd releases, former film stars, contemporay musicals or poitine. I also like the open discussion sans flame wars here on the way. Over at the Street (Scarlet, that is) we are know to quite heavily disagree over and over again, and that is one of that forum's pleasures: there are more than enough of us over there who have yet to fathom the appeal or the talent of Nicole Kidman, while there are others who adore MYSTERY OF THE WAX MUSEUM; two prime examples of what flame wars can turn into.
As for PARADE; I didn't have the cd when I saw the Hal Prince-directed National Tour (Pittsburgh was, iirc, its second stop following Atlanta) and all that I really KNEW about it was that it was a musical version of one of my favorite telepics/miniseries - THE MURDER OF MARY PHAGAN. I also knew/know Jeff Edgerton (from Carnegie-Mellon University), and looked forward to seeing him onstage again. PARADE literally blew me away - so full of passion, so full of melody, so brimming with fire and music. I don't think that there was a single moment that I WAS NOT totally immersed in the theatricality of the piece, and yes, I and my date shed many tears throughout the evening. I bought the cd on my way home from the theater and it still gets quite a bit of play.
But onto "ASK BK:"
Did you get to listen to Christian Kane's song which I sent you? What opinion did you form on the vocalist and the song itself?
Have any other dear readers discovered Christian Kane? I found him through watching ANGEL on dvd, but, it took one whole season plus seventeen episodes before his evil lawyer got up on a stage, played guitar and sang. (it also took that many episodes for him to take off his shirt, but, that's another story altogether). Once I heard him sing, however, I Googled my way to his website, and lo, and behold, he's not primarily an actor, but, a musician with a band! ! ! From Google to Kazaa in no time flat, I made a lovely cd of Mr. Kane's music.
Profanity - I've been in food service for over twenty years; I'm immune to it.
Posted by td @ 09/17/2003 11:51 AM PST

Noel wrote:
And, to all DRs: Have you ever attended a new show, knowing the plot in advance (just as the ancient Greeks did)? If so, what effect did this foreknowledge have on your enjoyment of the show?
I would be very surprised if most avid theatre goers did not familiarize themselves with the plots and songs in advance.
Maybe that is just my mentality. For Big Brother, I like to read the goings on before the show airs (so i know more).
I do the same for theatre. I like to read the reviews. I like to know the plot. I like to know the cds (if possible).
I think it lets you enjoy the show a lot (not sure if more), but it gives you a different perspective.
I think my sister is wearing off on me. Cause she always says that she enjoys a show a lot more if she knows it before seeing it. So I started doing the same thing.
Although that said, there have been plenty of shows that I haven't been overly familiar with (yet have loved). One example is SIDE SHOW. Went to see it a few days before opening. Knew the basic plot, but not the songs. And it is one of my favorite theatre experiences!
I didn't mean to make anyone feel left out if they've not had the opportunity to see Parade. But I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree about whether it's fair to judge a show by how it plays in a theatre (rather than, say, how it plays on a cast album). Mssrs. Brown and Uhry created a piece of theatre, not a concept album, and their primary responsibility is to entertain the live audience that paid all that money to see it.
In the case of PARADE I think I might disagree. Since many of us who have not seen the show, have listened to the cd A LOT and have read the script (that was published).
I think in general you can judge some things by the cd. I mean obviously you can't comment on the acting, or staging. But if it is a musical, and you've listened to the songs enough, and know the plot, then you can probably judge if you'd like the show.
Posted by Jennifer @ 09/17/2003 11:56 AM PST

BK - Sorry to hear about your job. It probably means that a better opportunity is on the horizon.
Posted by TCB @ 09/17/2003 12:04 PM PST

So much for my careful reading. I addressed my response to BK, but it should've been to WEL - whom I thank for the tip about All Music.
By the way, are there any other Chita's? I'm stumped. (And so is Eartha.)
Posted by Dan-in-Toronto @ 09/17/2003 12:06 PM PST

I've been stumped for quite a while.
Posted by Long John Silver @ 09/17/2003 12:07 PM PST

I'm not sure what the deal is
with the Ultimate Collection. I
know that I'd intended the
song to be on there, but
maybe there wasn't room or
something and the booklet
didn't get adjusted. I know not.
I made an
astonishing discovery
(actually, it was pointed out to me) - there is an
underground website cabal
frequented by the two or three
bitchy posters from
broadwayworld.com. They do
nothing but bitch, apparently,
and have included all of us in
their current rantings. They
accuse this site of being some
kind of Jim Jones cult thing,
which is amusing given that
one could presumably say the
same thing about their site.
Their big discussion was
whether to invite zolalaplaya,
one of Juliana's biggenst
non-fans, over there to bitch
away happily. They don't "get"
this here site and they quoted
specifically my line "I must hie
myself to the Oaks of
Sherman" as an example of
what we do. To these people I
say, "KISS MY ASS". Since
they are now reading this here
site for their fodder, I also say
KISS MY ASS. Bitter,
unsuccessful people who
have nothing better to do but
bitch about everyone and
everything are welcome to
their own website. If only
they'd stay off broadwayworld
and keep the environment
clean. But that's not enough
for these folks - they would die
without the ability to post in a
forum where LOTS of people
can read their foulness.
Posted by bk @ 09/17/2003 12:20 PM PST

A Jim Jones cult? That is ridiculous. I don't even like Kool Aid.
Posted by TCB @ 09/17/2003 12:24 PM PST

DR LJS:
You are mighty lucky there's a rule against groaning at this here site.
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 12:24 PM PST

BK--
Does this mean no more midnight satanic rituals with chicken blood?
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 12:26 PM PST

I don't always read all the posts here, but I religiously read BK's notes.
Posted by Charles Pogue @ 09/17/2003 12:35 PM PST

DR Noel wrote: I didn't mean to make anyone feel left out if they've not had the opportunity to see Parade. But I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree about whether it's fair to judge a show by how it plays in a theatre (rather than, say, how it plays on a cast album). Mssrs. Brown and Uhry created a piece of theatre, not a concept album, and their primary responsibility is to entertain the live audience that paid all that money to see it.
Unfortunately, making people feel left out is exactly what you are doing, by insisting that the live theater experience is the only way that theater can be experienced. Those of us who grew up outside of NYC, and there are a lot of us out there, quite often have only the cast recordings and the scripts and our imaginations to fuel our love of theater. We already know that this is not the same thing, and don’t need our noses rubbed in that fact.
Personally, I think you should be grateful for those of us who experience theater in this way, because the number of you who saw Parade at the Vivien Beaumont is a very small, insignificant subset of the world’s population. Hell, the theater seats less than 1100, and the show only ran there for ten weeks! And there were seats left unsold at every performance, from what I hear. Do the math.
It’s this very snobbery by some of those who go to live theater that often turns away potential audiences. Let me tell a story. A few years ago, my theater-loving der Brucer was stuck in the hospital, gravely ill. There was no chance that I could exchange our tickets for Titanic at the L. A. Music Center for a later performance, because he simply couldn’t be well enough by the time the run closed, and there was no way I was interested in seeing the show without him. My place was by his side, not in a chair in the middle of the orchestra or balcony levels.
I took another option. I got my best friend at work to go with me to the box office, asked him what performance would be best for himself and his son, exchanged the tix for that performance (a Sunday matinee, as it happened), and gave him the tickets. Tony (my friend) was astounded, as he had never been to a live theater performance in his life. And here’s the reason he gave for why he hadn’t: He thought that he had to be heavily educated about the theater before he could enjoy it!
As it happened, he and his son enjoyed their afternoon at the theater very much. But just imagine how many others there are out there who never set foot into the theater, believing as Tony did that they didn’t know enough to be able to like it. Dammit, we should be encouraging these people, not discouraging them! And we should be encouraging them by every means possible! And that includes cast recordings, scripts, and the use of that miraculous tool, the imagination! (I lost track of the number of recordings I loaned Tony’s son after that experience, a number of them produced by BK by the way. I’m pretty sure I got all of them back, I’ll have to check.)
The theater simply cannot afford to alienate it’s potential audience by making itself an elitist experience. We need more people going to the theater, not fewer! Because if more people don’t want to go to the theater, the audience that is there is going to atrophy and evaporate, and there will be no theater left.
Of course, we’ll still have the cast recordings and the scripts we have now, and our imaginations. But as you indicated, Noel, those aren’t the same things.
Posted by S. Woody White @ 09/17/2003 12:36 PM PST

Religiously, Mr Pogue? What denomination?
Posted by Billy Graham @ 09/17/2003 12:37 PM PST

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm...cyanide-spiked Kool-Aid... *gargle* *drool*
Posted by Homer J. Simpson @ 09/17/2003 12:37 PM PST

DR Jennifer wrote:
I think in general you can judge some things by the cd. I mean obviously you can't comment on the acting, or staging. But if it is a musical, and you've listened to the songs enough, and know the plot, then you can probably judge if you'd like the show.
I respectfully disagree. I got so darn sick of hearing the songs from Rent over and flippin' over again, the last thing I wanted to do was see that show. The impression I had of it was a bunch of lazy brats whining about their lives. But my teenage cousin was coming to visit me and she had never seen a Broadway show and wanted to see it, so I took her, and guess what? I loved the show! The recording just did not do justice to it.
I feel that unless it's a concept recording, the cast album should never substitute for a live viewing of the show and one should be v. v. careful about judging or forming a strong opinion about a show based on its recording.
Least that's my opinion (oh, a Johnny Mercer reference).
Then again, if you live in the Boon Docks and don't have access to live theatre, what else can ya do? Besides jump in front of a tractor and end it all.
Posted by Joy @ 09/17/2003 12:42 PM PST

DR Noel wrote: "Mssrs. Brown and Uhry created a piece of theatre, not a concept album, and their primary responsibility is to entertain the live audience that paid all that money to see it."
Maybe I missed something, but where in here does it state that people who saw Parade in the theater are inherently superior to people who have only listened to the cast album?
It seems to me that Noel's point is a legitimate one, and he doesn't need to answer for people who "thought that [they] had to be heavily educated about the theater before [they] could enjoy it," because that is not remotely a point he is addressing in his post.
It seems to me that Noel has simply asserted that a piece of theater can best be judged by those people who have actually experienced it as just that, a piece of theater. There is nothing unreasonable about that. Seeing a play or a musical is a very different experience from reading a play or listening to the music from a musical. In the latter case, you're only getting part of the picture.
And no...I haven't had the privilege of attending beau coup live theater presentations. Which is exactly why I rarely give my opinions about shows, even when they're the topic of the day. I don't believe myself to be fully qualified.
Posted by Lulu @ 09/17/2003 12:48 PM PST

Do they diss us by NAME? LOL...that is so funny. They must spend a LOT of time reading the 100+ posts a day here.
DR Woody, that was a great story. And I have to say another reason people tell me they avoid theatre is that there is so much BAD theatre! They go wanting to enjoy something, but then they get bored to death or hit over the head with a show they don't like...and it's tough to get them back into a seat.
Of course, then that magic happens that only happen in the theatre....and WOW!! I keep going because sometimes it happens - less than I would like - but when it happens, when everything works, when the performers onstage and the audience make that connection, there is NOTHING like it!
Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/17/2003 12:49 PM PST

DR S. Woody White,
I read your post right after I posted mine, and now I feel I should clarify myself.
You wrote:
Unfortunately, making people feel left out is exactly what you are doing, by insisting that the live theater experience is the only way that theater can be experienced. Those of us who grew up outside of NYC, and there are a lot of us out there, quite often have only the cast recordings and the scripts and our imaginations to fuel our love of theater. We already know that this is not the same thing, and don’t need our noses rubbed in that fact.
Yikes. Where did anyone INSIST that the live theater experience is the only way that theater can be experienced? I belive that would qualify as a misinterpretation. I read Noel's post, too, and I didn't get that from it, and I hope you don't misinterpret mine in the same way. No, of course seeing it live is not the only way it can be experienced. Hell, I live in New York City and I never see anything because I can't afford to! But while I enjoy some cast albums and revile others, I try not to make uninformed judgments about shows I haven't seen. The fact is that the show was created as a whole (the exception, again, being a concept album) and was not meant to be judged by a few of its parts.
However, if you can't (for whatever reason) experience a show live and whole, that doesn't mean you can't enjoy and appreciate theatre. There have been many shows that I have constructed only in my head because I didn't have the opportunity to see them. Sometimes the imaginary shows end up being better than the live staged versions!
Of course I hope nobody takes my comment about the tractor with anything more than the darkly comic grain of salt with which it was intended.
Posted by Joy @ 09/17/2003 12:55 PM PST

Joy: Your experience with Rent is interesting. Personally I loved the cd. And I loved the show. Seeing the OBC was thrilling.
I think you are right though. In some cases the cd does not do the show justice. Although in the cast of Rent, I sort of find it hard to believe that someone could hate the cd that much and yet love the show (since so much of the show is recorded).
But in your case, you live in NYC. You can go see shows if you want to. Many others don't have that chance. And so the cd is what they have to work with.
Posted by Jennifer @ 09/17/2003 12:57 PM PST

I may not post everyday, but I do
read everything. I do skim over
movie issues because as much as
I'd love to be up on that sort of stuff, I
don't have time to watch anything. I
don't love "Parade" but I do like it.
Although, I find JRB's music with too
many notes, and too complex
rhythms, which just affirms the whole
"ego" issue with me.
BK - how do CD's get massed
produced? You mentioned that the
"Jeepers" CD was at the pressing
plant a few days ago, what is the
process? Most of us may be familiar
with the "burn" term and relate that to
computers, it would seem to take
FOREVER to reproduced a high
quantity that way.
Posted by Matthew @ 09/17/2003 01:03 PM PST

LOL DR Joy...those tractor suicides are pretty messy anyway!
My friend Vickie and husband Rick bought a new combine and paid about $75,000 for it.
She told him for that price she should be able to wear it on a chain around her neck.
And once when we were playing in the cornfield (where wishes come true), my friend Marah ran into the corn picker. She still has the scar. But you know, come to think of it, I have she has only gone to a theater once in her life. Traumatized, no doubt.
Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/17/2003 01:05 PM PST

"But come to think of it...she has only gone...."
Whut happen' to my syntax?
Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/17/2003 01:07 PM PST

John Saxon Alert:
The Reluctant Debutante. Tomorrow. TCM. 12 pm EST.
Posted by Lulu @ 09/17/2003 01:11 PM PST

Jay--how cool is it that you lived in Brooklyn Heights for 5 years! Where exactly? When I was going to school in NYC 2 years ago, I lived at the St. George Hotel on Clark St. Small world, isn't it? ;)
Joy--I did get the tape the other day and intend to listen to it tonight! I'll e-mail you with comments!
It's been interesting to get out of a very long and tiring Western Civ class to read this passionate debate about theatre. I don't want to write anything too long, but here are my two cents.
I agree that you can't completely appreciate or analyze a show without having seen it performed. But at the same time, you can definitely get an idea of the show by reading the script, listening to the cast recording, etc. So I won't say "Mack and Mabel was such a great show," because I can't; I never saw it. But I can say with confidence that "It had a great score and great performances."
As for theatre being an elitist art form these days, I hate to do it but I kind of agree with SWW. I mean sure, it's a huge tourist industry but there are still many, many people who have never even seen a Broadway show! Either it costs too much money for them, or they view it in stereotypical terms and think going to see a musical is "gay." I have one friend, an otherwise intelligent girl, who thinks that ALL musicals are smiley-happy Rodgers and Hammerstein affairs with simplified plots and chorus people traipsing around the stage singing and dancing to cliches. It's getting harder and harder to get young people to see a musical unless it's overpublicized and made to seem "edgy" and "ironic." I mean, this is a broad generalization, and there are certainly people like Sarah, Emily, Hapgood, Paulie and myself who defy the stereotypes. I just wish there were more of us.
Okay *takes a deep breath.* Off my soapbox.
Posted by Maya @ 09/17/2003 01:13 PM PST

I just nosed around their
various threads and
apparently many of them are
about ME. ME and my writing
style. ME, useless hypocritical
ME. They even thought that
when I mentioned Uncouth
Interlopers and Psycho
Stalkers that I was talking
about THEM. While I do find
them uncouth, no Virginia, not
everything is about them. They
really think we're all going to
drink Kool-Aid. At least I HAVE
a writing style (though most of
what I do here is specific to
this here site). They accuse
me of RIPPING OFF Quentin
Crisp's usage of "Mr." this or
"Miss" that. Hate to tell the
losers that I have to admit I've
never read one word Mr. Crisp
has written. But, it's nice to
know that I am the main focus
of their world, me and this
here site, which they call
Kimletland, which I actually
like. The call b'wayworld
candyland. What I would call
their site is not printable here.
It's actually hilarious that they
spend so much time HATING
me. They act like everything I
do is a big attempt to publicize
ME. Everything we do here is
all about ME. Well, let's see...
we're on a website called
haineshisway.com. Who
should it be about - Georgie
Jessel? We have never said
this is a general website about
nothing. Have we? It IS nice
to know that they are helping
our stats though, by
relentlessly reading this here
site.
They seem not to have a clue
as to why this site was created
- actually, they seem not to
have a clue about anything.
But, then again, there are only
five or six of them and while
there is only one of me there
are many many of you and they
hate that fact. They HATE
Juliana. They hate, hate, hate.
All our favorites are there, and I
do know who two of them are
and will find out who the
others are and then we will
level the playing field real nice.
Posted by bk @ 09/17/2003 01:14 PM PST

Pressing plants make what
they call a "glass master" and
CDs are reproduced at high
speed from that. It's nothing
like burning on a burner or
computer.
Oooh, chat in just a few hours.
I will only be there for a
half-hour, though, and then am
off to see How the West Was
Won in Cinerama - David
Wechter got us tix weeks ago
and tonight's the night.
Posted by bk @ 09/17/2003 01:16 PM PST

*Holding up a live chicken squeamisly*
Sqauwk Sqwauk Sqawuk
"Guys? Can we PLEASE get a new satanic ritual? This is so gross..."
BK... prepare the world domination mechanisms... ;)
(this is working so well with my CONFLICT, CRISIS AND WAR class!)
Posted by Emily @ 09/17/2003 01:21 PM PST

Narf.
Posted by Pinky @ 09/17/2003 01:24 PM PST

Can we please pick a spelling for "squawk" and stick with it?
Posted by Spelling Police @ 09/17/2003 01:32 PM PST

Some people clearly have way too much time on their hands.
Posted by Old Laura @ 09/17/2003 01:33 PM PST

I have one thing to say to the spelling police:
squawk off!
jk :)
Posted by Emily @ 09/17/2003 01:36 PM PST

Oh...
Laura II - I forgot to resend you some (curse word free) vibes:
good vibes dance
(the french keyboard at work won't recognize the swishy symbol)
Posted by Emily @ 09/17/2003 01:38 PM PST

Maya, I agree, it IS an elitist art form, because who can afford to go see Broadway shows except the rich and people who get free tickets? Not me. Sometimes I manage to get a peek, but nowadays I probably average about a show a year. Sad. It wasn't always that way. Only 5 years ago the top ticket price was $60, now it's $120! Where in the world do they get off? Nothing else in the consumer market that I know of has doubled in price over the last five years (uh-oh, a JRB reference).
Oh yeah...and Maya...you might want to mention to your otherwise-intelligent friend that R&H shows are not the smiley-happy affairs with simplified plots and chorus people traipsing around the stage singing and dancing to cliches she thinks they are. One about a widow who disrupts an entire empire with her civilized western ideas; one about spousal abuse and the women who love them anyway, where one of the main characters is reviled and teased for being a freak by her schoolmates; one about a very young nun who falls in love with an Austrian sea captain and leads her family in defiance of the Nazis; and a story of a prejudiced young army nurse who finds her beliefs getting in the way of accepting the love of her life (who, by the way, is old enough to be her father)...need I go on?
;o)
Posted by Joy @ 09/17/2003 01:47 PM PST

I've never considered Jason Robert Brown's music to be too "complex". In fact, I remember someone else saying they found it too simple, employing too many elements of pop music. (I don't find that to be true, either.)
Maya, I'm surprised to hear you call Rodgers & Hammerstein's shows "smiley-happy". CAROUSEL features domestic violence and suicide, THE KING AND I and SOUTH PACIFIC deal with racism (and in both of those shows a major character dies), FLOWER DRUM SONG is about Asian assimilation in America. The shows may be old-fashioned by today's standards, but if done well they can still pack a punch.
I must say that my experience with RENT in the theatre was exactly the same as my response to the cast recording, which apparently was the same response Joy had to the cast recording.
I read some of the BroadwayWorld nonsense re: Juliana's journal. Some people need to get a life.
Posted by Dave @ 09/17/2003 01:48 PM PST

DR Maya: My very first apartment that I could call my own was in a street-level studio on the corner of Henry and Joralemon Streets, just a few blocks down from the St. George Hotel. A little later on, I moved one block over to an apartment on Hicks Street, just below Joralemon Street. When did you live in Brooklyn Heights? I was there from mid-1980 to the end of 1984. Did you ever eat at Henry's End? That was my favorite neighborhood restaurant.
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 01:54 PM PST

Well, I've gotta head up to work so I wanna type this quick.
I am utterly ashamed of how I sounded towards R&H, and I need to watch my phrasing. I'm a big fan of their shows and recognize just how groundbreaking they were. I MEANT to say that some people think of musicals in a generalized way, thinking of them as overly chipper, corny and dated. My friend sees Rodgers and Hammerstein shows this way, and so she broadens her conceptions about musicals to ALL shows, which greatly irks me. Anyway, I hope I was a little more clear this time and I offer my sincerest apologies to Dick and Oscar.
Posted by Maya @ 09/17/2003 01:54 PM PST

Maya,
It wasn't your perception of Dick and Oscar that was alarming, it was your friend's! Don't worry, we know you weren't trying to dis the boys.
:)
Posted by Joy @ 09/17/2003 01:58 PM PST

..and besides what is wrong with chiper, corny, and dated! I think that describes my life! LOL!
Posted by MBarnum @ 09/17/2003 02:01 PM PST

Regarding the high price of Broadway shows de facto making theatre an elitist art form: some of the best theatre I have ever seen (drama, musical, new work or revival) has been in 99 seat theatres where I paid a fraction of the going rate for tickets on Broadway these days.
Please, let's not fall into the trap of believing that the only theatre worth seeing is mounted on stages on those eight blocks in midtown Manhattan. (Or whatever words it was that Joe Mankiewicz put into Bill Sampson's mouth in ALL ABOUT EVE.)
Confidential to Joy, Panni and Noel: Do I get credit for recognizing that it takes a writer to create the words that a character speaks? Some people seem to believe that the actors make it up as they go along, no?
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 02:02 PM PST

Well, the one thing to
remember in this sea of
negativity that people are
floating our way (and towards
Juliana and myself
specificially) is that her journal
is adored by the people I was
hoping it would reach - young
people who are hopeful of
achieving what she has
achieved. How people can
stomach sending out all that
negativity is what baffles me
most. But, that's what makes
horse racing, I suppose.
It's true, R&H shows are
sometimes forgotten as what
they are really about. I think
some of that stems from years
of high school and community
theater productions that aren't
necessarily equipped
dramatically to deal with those
issues - so those issues get
deemphasized - and since a
lot of people have ONLY seen
those shows in those
circumstances that's what
leads folks to believe that their
all sweetness and light (I
know that is not what Maya
meant).
Posted by bk @ 09/17/2003 02:07 PM PST

I know where Maya is coming from. Look at the world of opera today: despite the fact that it is now populated with excellent and attractive actor/singers, expert directors and choreographers, talented set and lighting designers, etc., I dare say that many (most?) people think its still about a fat person singing downstage center with a the chorus in a semi-circle behind them.
Some people get a glimpse of an outdated stereotype and refuse to give it up.
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 02:08 PM PST

I'm not giving my opinion on Parade, but...
My original question concerned events unfolding in a musical where the plot is previously known to the audience. There's a major plot point in a musical I've been working on that, I fear, the audience will see coming down Broadway (or off-Broadway, or off-off - we'll see) and I'm trying to figure out if this matters.
I believe that everybody has a right to an opinion. What I was seeking, in calling on the DRs who've seen Parade, is an answer to my question based on seeing the show on stage, where Mr. Brown's songs get heard side by side with Mr. Uhry's book. As I stated before, I didn't mean to make those who've not seen the show on stage feel left out, but I just don't see how those folk could answer my specific query. And that's not the same as "insisting that the live theater experience is the only way that theater can be experienced." Not the same at all
Posted by Noel @ 09/17/2003 02:09 PM PST

I'm thinkin' that we might just
reach 100 posts
Posted by bk @ 09/17/2003 02:09 PM PST

I read every word of BK's notes every day. Being a movie buff as he is, I am greatly interested to read each day what DVDs or movies he's seen and is commenting on. Even if they're not films I would normally care anything about, it's interesting to get his take on them, and I especially like the comments on DVD transfers and if they're up to snuff. (How far up does snuff usually go?) There are also sometimes trivia questions there, the topic of the day, etc. I really don't know how folks who come here regularly can skip them.
For Ask BK Day: You get ONE pick: Which performer who ever appeared in any edition of NEW FACES (stage or screen) is your favorite? My answer - Maggie Smith.
Posted by Matt H. @ 09/17/2003 02:12 PM PST

I have been doing theater since I was five years old (I believe Lincoln was still President). Every place I have ever worked, I have told people about doing shows, and I have always hung a poster up outside my cubicle to let them know about what show I was doing. I have never tried to force or badger any of my co-workers to come see me in a show, but little by little, the word has always gotten around that these plays aren’t so terrible after all. In one office that I worked, the first show I did while I was there, drew only two of my co-workers. By the time I left that office ten years later, over half of the staff was attending not only my shows, but other plays as well. Now I have people stopping by my desk for no other reason than to find out what my next show is going to be, and when it is going to open.
Theater should not be a frightening or intimidating experience. It should be an event, something memorable that will stick with them for years to come. Perhaps part of the problem is that when we attempt to introduce children to theater, we always feel we have to start with the classics. How many people have been turned off to theater and / or Shakespeare because, when they were children, they were forced to sit through a bad Shakespeare production? Heck, half of the actors that I have worked with in Shakespeare productions didn’t understand what they were saying, so how could they expect an audience to understand it? And there is certainly nothing that will whet a child’s appetite for theater more than having to sit through a dramatic retelling of Silas Marner.
We need to start exposing children to theater that will not only make them think but will also entertain them and will make them laugh and cry. Children should look at attending theater as a prize, not as a punishment. Personally, I did not really enjoy Rent when I saw it on Broadway, but I certainly would never criticize a show that brought that many non-theater goers into a Broadway theater. Think how many of those people told other people who told other people; and how many of those people have returned to see another show (or two), in spite of the hefty price of tickets? Any why do we assume that Boradway is the only legitimate place to see theater. There are regional theater and community theaters all over this country that do not charge $120 a ticket, and yet remain on the cutting edge of what is new in the world of drama and comedy and musicals.
Posted by TCB @ 09/17/2003 02:12 PM PST

I was so eager to be #100 that I had "its" where it should have been "it's," plus an errant "a." I shall preview more carefully henceforward.
Posted by Jay @ 09/17/2003 02:13 PM PST

Whoops, sorry for the long post. I got carried away.
Posted by TCB @ 09/17/2003 02:13 PM PST

Here I am at work!
Thanks, Joy, for recognizing my intent amidst the inarticulate jumble, lol! I completely agree with you about ticket prices, and am in fact preparing a speech about that subject for my Speech Communications class! I wrote the other day that I had added up my ticket stubs for the last 2 years (3 years away from being a JRB reference!) and it came to $730.50! My eyes popped out of their sockets! Anyway though, do you ever take advantage of rush tickets living in NYC? I know that some shows offer general rush (but some only do student rush), and that way you can see a show that otherwise may eat up half a paycheck for $20-$30 dollars. And Jay is right--there is certainly good theatre that is playing off Broadway and beyond!
Jay--I know exactly the area where you lived! I lived in Brooklyn Heights from June of 2001 to June of 2002. I don't think I ever ate at Henry's End, but there were a lot of great little restaurants on Montague Street that I used to frequent! I plan to move back to NYC (and probably back to Brooklyn, considering the cost of Manhattan housing these days) as soon as I graduate college in a few years.
Posted by Maya @ 09/17/2003 02:15 PM PST

And thank you too, BK! :)
Posted by Maya @ 09/17/2003 02:18 PM PST

Good early evening!
Another good day of auditions. Not a big turnout, but the quality was very good, and we were able to keep a lot of people for our consideration file. Off to Chicago tomorrow afternoon - before Isabel, hopefully. And the lunch at Ollie's Noodle House was very good too!
As for reading the notes... I always read BK notes. Some days, I do skim some of "our" notes, but I always try my best to go back and read every single post - when I have the time. *I've skimmed some of today's posts - I'm just back in the hotel for a little bit before heading out for the evening. But once I get back tonight...
Well, I'm gonna take a little cat nap - those flourescent lights in the studios really tire my eyes out...
Until later...
Posted by Jose C. Simbulan @ 09/17/2003 02:39 PM PST

Maya, I knew you were too astute to mock the masters. ;-)
You are right, though, about people holding on to old stereotypes of the theatre. It works both ways, too. I have spoken to older people who believe that musicals *should* be light, happy affairs with lots of toe-tapping numbers. I recall when I was in a production of CHESS, my dresser complained frequently that the show had no laughs, so the audience wouldn't like it. (Gee, thanks, lady....and with that vote of confidence, I'll go do my number now.)
I happen to enjoy some of the "lighter" variety of musicals, but also love musicals that deal with more serious subjects. So my CD player sees 42nd STREET about as often as it sees PARADE.
On an related topic, how many people have seen CARNIVAL on stage? I took out my CD the other day, and I had forgotten how much of the music I really enjoy. It made me wonder how it plays onstage. Any thoughts?
As to Noel's question...
I guess it would depend on the nature of the plot point. If you are intending it to be a big surprise, then the audience's prior knowledge may work against you. For example, if you were doing a murder mystery based on a famous case, then the "whodunnit" element of the story is undermined by the fact that the audience already knows the answer.
But that is probably a special case. I think in most instances it won't matter whether the audience already knows the story. Think how many people see the same movie or play numerous times, but continue to be moved. Or how many revivals continue to draw an audience, despite the fact that many in the audience have seen the show in a previous incarnation. Or how many musicals are based on well-known properties (novels, plays, movies, etc.), yet the audience doesn't seem to mind. I don't think the fact that your story is true will have a negative effect in that regard.
I think the bigger obstacle to overcome is in the depiction of historical figures. When the public feels they know a character very well, it is difficult to depict that person in another light. If you were doing a musical about Lady Diana, you just know your audience would be full of royal fanatics, who would spend the entire evening saying, "Oh, Diana would never have said that."
Even the notion of making well-known historical figures sing is a very tricky proposition. PARADE works because most people do not have a pre-existing image of Leo and Lucille Frank. Imagine doing a musical on the OJ Simpson trial. Having any of those characters sing would seem ludicrous, no? (The Dancing Ito's suddenly come to mind...)
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Posted by Dave @ 09/17/2003 02:39 PM PST

No, I'm waiting for the new musical about Robert Blake......
Posted by TCB @ 09/17/2003 02:54 PM PST

Yes, they can interpolate the Barretta theme song, as sung by Sammy Davis, Jr.
"Don't do the crime,
If you can't do the time..."
Posted by Dave @ 09/17/2003 03:05 PM PST

Oh, DR MATT...I have to go with Paul Lynde.
Peter Marshall: Paul, how should a young lady cross her legs, at the ankle or at the knee?
Paul Lynde: Neither...if she wants to get anywhere in show business.
Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/17/2003 03:05 PM PST

I saw the original production of Carnival with Jerry Orbach, Anna Maria Albergetti and Kaye Ballard, as well as the Encores almost-full staging of a couple of years ago starring Brian Stokes Mitchell. I've always enjoyed this show, especially the music, although some critics of the recent production thought the Lili character as being somewhat retarded, which I don't think is what the authors intended. I thought her somewhat dense, but not retarded. My recollections of the long-ago Gower Champion directed original production were very favorable. The Encores production was almost a full production and could have moved to B'way as is. The show always brings a tear to my eyes, although the Paul character's behavior is somewhat hard to take.
Posted by steveg @ 09/17/2003 03:06 PM PST

Carnival - Lovely score, rather thin book, but with the right cast it is still magic.
Posted by TCB @ 09/17/2003 03:09 PM PST

DR steveg - Carnival's score brings a tear to my eye as well, especially the closing strains of Love Makes the World Go Round. Isn't it strange that it wasn't even nominated for a Tony in 1962? I think it has stood the test of time better than that year's contenders: How To Succeed, Kwamina, Milk and Honey and No Strings (that year's winner).
Posted by Dan-in-Toronto @ 09/17/2003 03:20 PM PST

I keep forgetting to answer the
Parade question. Actually, I
don't know if I have an answer
to the Parade question. I saw
the show at Lincoln Center. I
really liked some of Hal
Prince's staging and the
performances were terrific
from just about everyone. I
liked some of the score and
didn't like some of it at all. The
only thing I clearly remember
was absolutely abhorring the
opening, which I thought got
the show off on a totally wrong
foot (I'm talking about the Red
Hills of Home or whatever it
was) - I'm not talking about the
song I'm talking about the way
the song was used and what
tone was set. It was strange
and I thought I was going to be
seeing Shenandoah.
But Brent and Carolee were
marvy, as was the gal who
played Mary Phagan.
Posted by bk @ 09/17/2003 03:29 PM PST

What religion? Pagan, of course!
When religions still knew how to celebrate the mysteries of life and death and rebirth with wine, song, dance, and sex!
Posted by Charles Pogue @ 09/17/2003 03:44 PM PST

You said it, mortal!
Posted by Bacchus @ 09/17/2003 03:50 PM PST

Like Mssr. Pogue, I read BK's Notes each and every morn, but sometimes must skim through the postings lest I be E&T at the office!
Posted by Phil @ 09/17/2003 04:26 PM PST

I read BK's noted every day, although like a few other DR's, I tend to only skim the movei notes, becuase (a) I've never heard of them or (b) I haven't got a clue what you're talking about half of the time. But they're always a bright spot in my day :)
RE: BK/Juliana bashers: they can kiss MY arse too. Yes, I said arse. Much more fun to say, and it isn't used as often.
RE Cursing, etc.: I don't curse on a regular basis. When I'm really frusterated, there are about two choice words that happen to pop out, and I only ever say them the one time. One word I love is "frickin" because it's close, but not there, so I can say it, get the emotion out, and still have a clean everyday vocabulary.
The cursing in Grease was minimal, and it didn't bother me at all. Many of the families I babysit for took their kids, and I warned them beforehand about the cursing. Those who minded opted their children out, but a lot came anyway. When I asked afterwards what they thought of it, they said that half of the time they didn't even notice. The director did cut some obcene gestures out, middle fingers, sexual hints, etc., which I think was a wise decision.
I want to make a comment about what Laura was saying about religion. I think some of you thought that she was coming off as the kind of person who corrects people regularly when "Oh my God" is said. She isn't. I say it occasionally, just through habit, and I can't remember a single time that she's ever corrected me. While I'm glad that the director didn't take it out of the other characters, it didn't make a huge difference in hers as she was playing "Goody-Two-Shoes" Patty Simcox. It actually made her come off as a great foil for the other kids, who were raunchy and carefree, cursing, etc., while she was exclaiming "OH MY GOODNESS!"
I've never seen Parade, couldn't tell you a thing about it.
Emily: There's a whole BUTTON dedicated to "swishy"?!? Is it the vibe button?
My question for DR's: What is the one show that has most affected you emotionally?
Posted by Sarah @ 09/17/2003 04:29 PM PST

I saw the Encores Carnival at the dress rehearsal when Brian Stokes Mitchell was having terrible vocal problems. What struck me is that the comedy isn't nearly funny enough. I found the Douglas Sills-Debbie Gravitte stuff rather labored, and that gives me doubts as to whether it could play today. But, of course, Encores scales back the book a bit, so I don't really know. Beautiful Candy is one of my all-time favorite songs
Posted by Noel @ 09/17/2003 04:33 PM PST

I meant to type "movie" and "because". That post took a whole hour and a half to post because I kept getting so distracted...:)
Posted by Sarah @ 09/17/2003 04:33 PM PST

re: Carnival
Puppets on Broadway? Yeah, like THAT'S gonna happen.
Posted by Audrey II and the cast of Avenue Q @ 09/17/2003 04:36 PM PST

Hey Audrey II and the cast of Avenue Q - don't forget, we were first in the circle of puppets on Broadway!
Posted by The Puppet cast of The Lion King @ 09/17/2003 04:45 PM PST

We've got no strings, but, we are masters of the fine art of genital origami. We may not have played Broadway, but we were a hair away. Why does the director's line from THE EXORCIST "There seems to be an alien pubic hair in my drink" come to mind?
Posted by The Puppeteers from OZ @ 09/17/2003 05:12 PM PST

Ask BK
When you remastered The Grass Harp and the bonus songs that were originally produced by Ben Bgaley what were the conditions of the originals masters? Were there any? Could you remix them?
There is a whole wealth a material out there by him that can be remastered, remixed and re-released for instance putting all the songs from Love Life on one CD (They were spread out onto 3 cds) and perhaps recording the remaining tracks.
Therefore my second part of my question: Do you think there is a market to rerelease the Ben Bagley CDs if someone has the time and the money to redo them?
Posted by Mike @ 09/17/2003 05:19 PM PST

Click on my name for the Dance of the Lustrons!
Posted by Carl Strundland @ 09/17/2003 05:20 PM PST

On break from class and should be able to get to chat at around 9:30!
I think the show that moved me the most emotionally was probably Les Miz. I mean sure, it's blatantly emotional material but it really hits the spot.
Oh...and I'm so happy! Just bought my Wonderful Town tickets! I'll be seeing it on November 29.
Posted by Maya @ 09/17/2003 05:26 PM PST

BK - I always read your notes but I don't always read everyone else's. Since they've been consistently over 100, it takes quite a committment of time. Time that I don't always have. Also, I usually "tune in" in the evening which is too late to respond to anyone. I'm disappointed that I can't read everything because Hainsies and Kimlets are among the most interesting writers I've ever encountered. I guess it was bound to happen since yours is the most popular site on the internet!
LAURA - I took a look at Ticketmaster's website and found out that THE PRODUCERS ends on January 4, 2004. Starting January 7 is CHICAGO.
Posted by Donna - Cabaret West @ 09/17/2003 05:37 PM PST

Question for BK: On your new CD, JEEPERS CREEPERS, who played the solo clarinet part on "Goody Goody" and the solo oboe part on "I've Written a Letter to Daddy?" They're both terrific! P.S. I hope I've identified the instruments correctly.
Posted by Donna @ 09/17/2003 05:44 PM PST

For The Grass Harp we had
only the album masters, which
were already mixed. However,
with my faboo mastering
engineer, Joe Gastwirt, we
were able to significantly
improve the sound and even
alleviate some of the inherent
distortion from the original
recording. I think there will
always be a place for the
Bagley albums, but I don't
really know who has the rights
now.
Donna: They're both clarinets,
and they're played by one of
the most well-known and
respected reed players
working today, Dan Higgins,
who played all the solo sax
parts on John Williams' Catch
Me if You Can Score. He also
plays the sax on Jason's track,
and the sax on Who Killed
Teddy Bear. Chances are if
you hear a reed being played
in a major Hollywood film
score, it's Dan.
Posted by bk @ 09/17/2003 05:53 PM PST

Chat in five minutes.
Posted by bk @ 09/17/2003 05:54 PM PST

Hello All,
I thought I'd just skip past the notes and post.
Posted by Kerry @ 09/17/2003 06:07 PM PST

I always read the notes. I enjoy the humor, I learn about movies I haven't seen yet and should. I love hearing details about the BK-produced recordings, the singers, the "Inside the Biz" stuff. I like to spend time with intelligent, tasteful people!
Posted by Gunther @ 09/17/2003 06:26 PM PST

Dear esteemed, literate, sinewy, and guapo BK, --
I'm afraid I'm one of those folks who ALWAYS reads your notes to open the day, all the way through. Then, as I start going through posts, I read the ones more carefully that are a subject of interest to me, and yes, I skim some that are not something that grabs my fancy.
But it is the opening notes that I look forward to, each day. Having met some wonderful, talented, charming, and sweet peoples from this site has been a terrific bonus!
I can't make chat tonight....today is a rather intense day for us; as Dinah would say..."it is fraught with innundo (sic) !!
Posted by MusicGuy @ 09/17/2003 07:15 PM PST

Maya... click on my name for an entirely legal source of entertainment.
Okay... it depends on what "legal" means to you.
May God and JRB forgive me for what I am doing! :)
Posted by Emily @ 09/17/2003 07:21 PM PST

I'm one of those people who read your section daily. But, depending on when I get started, I may or may not skip the posts to this here site and simply go to the end and share what's on my mind about the subject of the day or what's on my DVD/CD/VHS players.
For instance, there were 137 posts on this here messaage board when I finished reading your column. Did I feel beholden to read every single one of them before skimming down and posting?
KISS MY ASS!
If I'm sticking to the subject introduced, it doesn't make any nevermind anyhoo.
Will I read all 137 posts? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't always revisit yesterday's thread to see what the late posts said after I went to bed. That is, unless someone refers to something said there...and then I'm all over it like white on rice.
Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 09/17/2003 08:24 PM PST

Once again, I go to the chat room and little late...and nobody is there. Nobody except SARAH who must be permanently logged in. She doesn't respond to chat, her name is simply logged in.
How come chat isn't still going on??????
Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 09/17/2003 08:27 PM PST

Ron: I saw you come in, and it didn't say that you said anything...I had just forgotten I was in there...try again!
Posted by Sarah @ 09/17/2003 08:33 PM PST

BK: I think we should give names to the several bitchy underground Broadway queens.
Let's call them Alison and Jun.
Doesn't matter how many of them there are. Alison and Jun are the two foulest, most hypocritical sorry asses ever to claim to be women of any standing. They are low-life scum not fit to bear the name of bitch proudly.
If ever I encounter the real Jun or Alison in public, I'm going to hawk a lugie at them.
Posted by Ron Pulliam @ 09/17/2003 08:35 PM PST

Some of you have said the magic word - CARNIVAL! My absolutely favorite "unknown" musical. Saw it as a pre-teen and was absolutely enchanted with every word, every note. If I had lived in NYC, I would have attended every performance any time I could get away from school or home. That's how much I loved it. Played my LP until it was unlistenable (BTW, did other people have trouble with MGM LPs that were always wearing out so fast; I had similar problems with THE FANTASTICKS and SHE LOVES ME, but I adore those shows, too, so maybe after hundreds of plays, they did just honestly wear out).
Only one community theater has done CARNIVAL! in the last 30 years here, and I loved the show all over again despite some less than great casting in some of the parts, especially Rosalie. If you can cast an enchanting Lili and get a suitably tortured Paul who can do those puppet voices, you've got a memorable show.
Posted by Matt H. @ 09/17/2003 08:40 PM PST

...In my last post I didn't get my point across in the way I had wanted it to...I'm still logged into chat, for some reason, I could have sworn I had left, but anyhoo, I'll stay for a while to see if any other late-comers pop in.
Posted by Sarah @ 09/17/2003 08:42 PM PST

I always read the notes, never
skim and post. Even when I
don't post (as I've been guilty
of lately), I still read! I admit
that I'll occasionally skim over
some DR posts before
making my own (as I have just
done now), but I most always
find time later on to come back
and read them all.
Posted by Jed @ 09/17/2003 08:58 PM PST

Ann and Jed and Gunther, I'm so glad to see you posting again. Now we just need to hear from Hapgood.
Since you kids have posted last, you can see that I have aged into "Old Laura," as we have a young Laura whom we have welcomed into our merry party.
Posted by Old Laura @ 09/17/2003 10:41 PM PST

To give another perspective on the 'not being able to access theatre' discussion, where I live in australia, dispite hearty efforts from local theatre companies, our productions have limitations. Also, due to some similarly limiting attitudes of some board members, a show must be 20 years old before it is produced. Anything that tours professionally is very specifically targetted for the short attention-spanned (I cringe when I remember watching the latest tour of Grease, complete with a middle-aged drink-spilling drunk woman next to me deciding to dance along... All staged in a tent mind you. I'm so glad I got free press tickets).
There is a rather talented company down in Melbourne who recently produced "A New Brain", and just opened a production of "Bat Boy". Unfortunately, its a little impractical to fly down for one day to see a show.
Posted by Tyson @ 09/17/2003 10:49 PM PST

2 Boys from Oz.
I start my day reading the BK words of wisdom then usually "back track" to the late posts before venturing forth. Often I skip many posts (where the subject is of no real interest to me)and read the comments form the Usual Group Of Suspects as there is interest (and a history) now behind many of the comments.
DR KT seems to have joined the list of the missing or Lost In Las Vegas. DR Allan is somewhere in Scotland.
Posted by Tom from Oz @ 09/17/2003 11:59 PM PST

Pick two other names, please.
Posted by Allison Hayes & June Allyson @ 09/18/2003 03:31 AM PST

Craig - how was the show????
Posted by Jrand53 @ 09/18/2003 03:32 AM PST

I saw the original Broadway CARNIVAL, the 1st National tour with some of the original leads and Joanne Worley in the Kaye Ballard role, and the recent Encores version. It's always been one of my favorite shows and is more in need of a Broadway revival (_not revisal_) than many shows that seem to get done again and again. Because it's so family friendly it is perfect for tourists. By the way, the two puppet performers from the Encores CARNIVAL are now two of the puppet performers in AVENUE Q. And has anyone noticed the disclaimer in the Q ads that the show is not endorsed by Henson and Sesame Street? I wonder if that is a legal requirement?
Before BK came along, the late Ben Bagley was the best producer of theatre related recordings. Most of his CDs are still available. He combined great and for the most part little known songs with a variety of performers ranging from big movie stars to Broadway veterans to total unknowns and his album notes alone were worth the price of the recording. People who like BK's compilation CDs will also like the Bagleys.
Posted by William E. Lurie @ 09/18/2003 06:18 AM PST

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