Haines His Way

Archives => Archive 3 => Topic started by: bk on March 13, 2005, 11:57:59 PM

Title: THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 13, 2005, 11:57:59 PM
Well, you've read the notes, you know our song of the day is If I Had a Hammer, and now it is time for you to post until the cows come home, which will not be until the Floor Men have left the home environment.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 13, 2005, 11:59:16 PM
And the word of the day is: TACITURN!

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 13, 2005, 11:59:27 PM
Has Ann caught up?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 12:00:05 AM
I must now toddle off to the bedroom environment to try and get a reasonable night's sleep before the Floor Men arrive early in the morning.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 12:00:22 AM
But, before I go, might I just say - TACITURN!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 12:07:28 AM
When a mime is scheduled for a variety show, his act is called a taciturn.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 12:12:17 AM
I hope the floor men (http://www.usc.edu/schools/annenberg/asc/projects/comm544/library/images/149.jpg) working on BK's floors do a good job.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 12:16:54 AM
Did someone mention Stephen Schwartz (http://www.stephenschwartz.com/)?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Tomovoz on March 14, 2005, 12:17:46 AM
Favourite Schwartz songs:

Face Of a Stranger
Fathers and sons
In Whatever Time We Have
Chanson
Rags
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 12:18:45 AM
And I hope what Pogue picked up at the book fair wasn't a chill.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 12:41:21 AM
In alpha order ...

All Good Things - Godspell
Blame It On the Summer Night - Rags
Chanson - The Baker's Wife
Colors of the Wind - Pocahontas
Crowded Island - Reluctant Pilgrim
The Hardest Part of Love - Children of Eden
I Guess I'll Miss the Man - Pippin
I'm Not That Girl - Wicked
In Whatever Time We Have - Children of Eden
It's an Art - Working
Life Goes On - Reluctant Pilgrim
No Time At All - Pippin
On the Right Track - Pippin
Out There - The Hunchback of Notre Dame
Snapshots - Reluctant Pilgrim
So Far - Reluctant Pilgrim
Stranger to the Rain - Children of Eden
Wanting - Rags
What Is This Feeling - Wicked

BUT one of the few songs by anyone that I cannot stand is Meadowlark, from The Baker's Wife.



Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ben on March 14, 2005, 05:05:17 AM
I have caught up.

We had a very nice Cousins Party in Brooklyn on Saturday. We were offered a ride back into Manhattan from cousins who lives on the Upper West Side and we took them up on the offer saving ourselves a long subway ride back to 16th Street.

Jose, sounds like you are becoming a real New Yorker, especially with all the walking.

I walked up to midtown around the time you were walking as well. I saw Moonlight and Magnolias yesterday. It's a Manhattan Theatre Club show from their off-Broadway series. It plays at the City Center space. It's about the re-writing of the script for Gone With the Wind. How much is true and how much was created for dramatic effect is anyone's guess. The premise is that David O. Selznick locks Ben Hecht and Victor Fleming in his office for five days to re-write the script. Even though it's less than two hours it seemed a little long. The idea is OK but it drags at points and some sections are just repeats of other speeches which, for me, stop the show cold. How many times do you want to make a point? Oh, well. It was still an enjoyable afternoon. I had stopped by the library (one branch of the NYPL on 53rd & 5th is open on Sunday from 1pm-5pm) and picked up some Mary Martin and Noel Coward Together With Music, Roar of the Greasepaint, Something Wonderful which is the Bryn Terfel CD featuring Rodgers & Hammerstein music and the Rhino release of Hit the Deck. I also found a new Gay mystery for DP (dear partner) Anthony to read. After the show we had a very pleasant dinner at La Bonne Soupe on 55th between 5th & 6th Avenues. Nice French bistro type place with great soup and other French food. Not high French but nice, relaxed French.

There are times on this site when I may be seen as Taciturn, but not this morning.

The definition of the term Taciturn: (a.) Habitually silent; not given to converse; not apt to talk or speak.

Another definition of taciturn:
(adjective) inclined to silence; speaking little; dour; stern
 
Example of using taciturn in a sentence:
The man was so taciturn it was forgotten that he was there.

And on that note (C#) I will leave for a while to wash my oatmeal bowl and to make some photocopies.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 05:21:06 AM
Lots of lovely posts from yesterday.  Nice paperback covers, MB.

ROGER RAMJET?!!!

I have been on a walking tour of NYC thanks to DRJOSE.  And thanks for the ticket price info.  I figured I would just count on the top orchestra price, and if they were less, I would have a happy surprise.  My sister Molly is coming as well, so I will need 2!  The Clowes pit is fairly deep (it can be adjusted up or down) but it is a bit narrow it seems to me.  They do fit about four musicians in a row, which seems to make it crowded at times.  And sometimes when I have looked down there the doublers have had their instruments stacked in strange places -  but I think you will like the theatre.  It is very tall and has European seating.  Remember Miss Judy Garland and Miss Barbra Streisand performed there (not at the same time of course) - and Miss Faye Dunaway appeared there as Maria Callas.  It is a nice hall!  You will also be stuck in that glue like substance called Hoosier Hospitality.  

DR JMK - LOL the autographed copy.  I am still waiting for one to appear on EBAY with all the excitement it will create!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Michael on March 14, 2005, 05:23:23 AM
In no particular order

Rewriting History
Dreamscape
Just No Time At All
Love Song
West End Avenue
In Whatever Time We Have
If We Never Meet Again
Blame It On a Summer Night
Morning Glow
Where Is the Warmth
All For the Best
It's An Art
Gifts of Love
Marking TIme
Children of the Wind
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: elmore3003 on March 14, 2005, 05:24:12 AM
Good morning, all!  I'm having a hard time getting started today.  I'm about an hour behind schedule.

DRJose, if your perambulations take you downtown, call me at the recording office 646-638-1938.  I would have been thrilled to join you at Artie's last evening.

DRRodzinski, welcome back!  Fort information on American producer Charles Frohman, the character played by Dustin Hoffman in FINDING NEVERLAND, see this:  http://rmslusitania.info/pages/saloon_class/frohman_charles.html

Since the rumor on Miss Maude Adams is that she was gay, it's possible the rumors on Frohman's "private life" are the same.  I always get Charles Dillingham (produced THE RED MILL, THE LADY OF THE SLIPPER and others) and Charles Frohman mixed up, but I believe one of them had a lover who produced the Princess Theatre shows with the very butch Bessie Marbury.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Michael on March 14, 2005, 05:24:59 AM
Off to work........more later
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: elmore3003 on March 14, 2005, 05:33:08 AM
Ray Comstock was the co-producer with Bessie Marbury of the Princess Theatre shows.  Frohman produced in New York the London hit musical THE GIRL FROM UTAH, which had several interpolations by Jerome Kern, including Mtr Kern's first hit "They Didn't Believe Me."  
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 06:13:55 AM
Forgot the TOD:

Just No Time at All is my favorite Schwartz song, although there are several that I like.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 06:14:11 AM
And Charles Frohman died on the Lusitania!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 07:08:22 AM
In answer to DR Rodzinski's query last night about Tom Selleck and his recent work, he just had a big hit made-for-TV movie on CBS during February sweeps. I didn't watch it, but it had a two word title and did very well in the ratings.

No doubt about it, the man's major popularity pool is with television audiences rather than with movie audiences.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ginny on March 14, 2005, 07:12:23 AM
TOD - All my favorite Stephen Schwartz songs have been mentioned, except for "Kind of Woman," from Pippin.  If I were a singer (which I'm not) and needed an audition piece (which I don't) this would be it.  DR Jose - is it overdone?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 07:36:57 AM
Unquestionably my favorite Schwartz song is "On the Right Track" from PIPPIN. Like DR Ginny, I do like quite a few others, but that one is my all-time, absolute favorite.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 07:40:27 AM
Very, very shocked about Mario Vasquez's pull-out from AMERICAN IDOL, especially as I thought it would be a toss-up between him and Bo Bice to be the ultimate winner.

The stories have all emphasized that it was HIS decision to leave, not a decision by the producers to kick him out. One wonders if we'll ever get the real story.

His sound-alike (to my ears at least) Nikko Smith replaces him, and that's fine. I was glad when Nikko was eliminated last week, not because he couldn't sing but because I found his voice and Mario's almost interchangeable, and I didn't feel we needed two such similar voices in the competition. Each of the final men now have very unmistakable singing styles.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jennifer on March 14, 2005, 07:42:20 AM
I was very surprised to wake up this morning and find out that Mario (from American Idol) had withdrawn.  And that they reinstated Nikko Smith.  DR Jose, my sis also didn't know that he was Ozzie Smith's son.  It wasn't heavily advertised.  But they did mention it a few times on ET (and if you recall they kept emphasizing how ST. LOUIS was supporting him).

I'm not sure if I'm happy that they just brought Nikko back.  I would have rather that they chose someone else.  To me once you're voted off you should not be allowed back.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jennifer on March 14, 2005, 07:44:51 AM
Hmmm, interesting DR MattH we were both writing about the same topic at the same time!

My favorite Schwartz track is "Lion Tamer" sung by Kristin Chenoweth on the Schwartz album.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 07:47:24 AM
Ah, well, the mail has come early this morning, and I didn't get any DVDs, so it'll be CSI: MIAMI Season 2 at some point today.

Any comments on last night's DEADWOOD? I won't get around to it until later today as well, but wondered what others thought about it.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 07:48:44 AM
Jennifer, you beat me to it! "The Lion Tamer" from THE MAGIC SHOW is my fave. I've only heard the one on the cast album though.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 07:52:24 AM
Sure, JRand. "Roger Ramjet, he's our man. Hero of our nation. For more adventures just be sure and stay tuned to this station."
(sung to the tune of "Yankee Doodle")
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 07:55:24 AM
I'm up, I'm up.  The Wall Man has arrived to do touch-ups to the paint, but tells me the Floor Men have not confirmed yet - so we have no idea if they'll be here or not, although we should have that answer very soon.  

Twenty-six posts, eh?  I think the only word that comes to mind is TACITURN!

I had another fan e-mail for Spaceship waiting for me this morning.  I always get a kick out of those.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 07:56:09 AM
You will hear no finer version of Lion Tamer EVER that that by Kristin Chenoweth.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 07:56:49 AM
Well, our little cold gray day spell lasted but a day, and even at eight in the morning the skies are bright blue.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 07:57:06 AM
In answer to DR Rodzinski's query last night about Tom Selleck and his recent work, he just had a big hit made-for-TV movie on CBS during February sweeps. I didn't watch it, but it had a two word title and did very well in the ratings.


The show was  Stone Cold (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0431420/); based on a Robert Parker novel, produced by, and starring Selleck.

I watched and was entertained - no more.

der Brucer
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 07:57:12 AM
I'm telling ya, SPACESHIP is where it's at. I say you re-convene the cast for a sequel.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 07:57:14 AM
Holy moley on rye - page two!

TACITURN!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 07:59:42 AM
A shy rutabega is a TACITURNIP.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 08:00:00 AM
Leftover from yesterday:

DR Pogue observed:

Quote
I not sure David Koepp (a very nice man) has gotten sole screen credit on War of the Worlds yet.  I know my friend Josh Friedman had a large hand in it and may have been the initial writer on it.

The listings on IMDB credit Friedman with "script consultant"

der Brucer (wondering when the cut-off is for production credits?)

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 08:05:56 AM
Thanks for the info on STONE COLD. I also remembered COLD as being part of the title before you posted the information, but glad to have the facts before me.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 08:08:10 AM
Speaking of "Lion Tamer," I've got sitting on my to-watch DVD shelf (more like a cabinet), the DVD of THE MAGIC SHOW that I've never watched. I need to put that in at some point this week.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 08:08:14 AM
WAR OF THE WORLDS....I have been disappointed in so many Spielberg films - ones that have such wonderful premises turn into such mundane and ho-hum movies.

CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND seemed - at least in the original release - to be advertised as one man's experiences with the unknown and aliens from outer space.  It of course soon involved the ENTIRE world and armies and nations and the personal story took second place, for me.

ET - another intimate story suddenly became about a few children against the ENTIRE army of the US.  

I am afraid WOTW might turn out the same way.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 08:09:46 AM
I still haven't watched Spielberg's THE TERMINAL, but I resisted CATCH ME IF YOU CAN for a long time, and when I finally caught up with it on HBO, I was THOROUGHLY entertained.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:16:22 AM
I am not known for being taciturn.  :D

Yesterday I was out with DH, my folks and the Vixter at her All County Music Festival

I was desperately dissapointed when they got to the Vixter's section, the All County Chorus,  this particular group was just for 5 - 7 grades, so the kids are all reasonably small, not too many who reach five feet in height.

The "guest conducter"  was a high school music teacher from another school district who has a Chamber Orchestra of about 16 high school kids that she parades aroud the Island doing various shows etc.

Well she set up the stage thusly...set up the risers for the chorus to stand on way upstage,  put the  Grand piano  IN FRONT  of the kids, stage left center, and then spread the orchestra across the whole front of the down stage area, excepting of course downstage center  where she stood.

If you could have seen the looks on the faces of those little kids whren they filed on the stage and saw the set up (for the first time, they never ran through it with them!) and realized that after all the hours of preparation they had put in they were being upstaged by an orchestra they had never even rehearsed with.  

I was appalled as were 99% of the audience,(excepting pf course the parents of the chamber orchestra kids who thought they were a "nice addition") band and orchestra parents agreed with the chorus parents that those other kids had absoulutely no right to be on that stage, they were the wrong age group, and even had they been the right age, they were not selected to participate in the festival and that section was suppose to showcase the chorus.  Could you imagine if the orchastra conductor had paraded in the chorus class from his school and spread them across the front of the stage, blocking the players for " added vocal accompaniment" ? It was ridiculous.

The kids all looked like they were going to cry.  Only the kids in the top row of the risers were at all visible, and because its just a school auditorium with not the greatest of acoustics and no microphones. the musicians placed in front of the kids all but drowned them out.

I am sorry it seems everything I post lately seems to be a rant and a complaint... I'll try to find some more cheerful stuff to post later today.    
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 08:26:17 AM
TACIT-URN

Contained herein, the remains of one Cornelius Tacitus

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/43/180px-Gaius_Cornelius_Tacitus.jpg)

der Brucer (It was Tacitus' writings that provided the heart of the book for Quo Vadis)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:30:15 AM
Good Morning!

Good sleep last night.  I was most definitely TACITURN during my slumber.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:31:18 AM
DR elmore - I should be downtown in a few hours.  I shall call you if I end up in the 'hood.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:32:50 AM
DR elmore - Part 2 - I almost called you last night when I was at Artie's.  But it was one of those spur of the moment deals.  I had even walked by the place a few times just to make sure that A) I was hungry, and B) I wanted to eat there.  I'm sure there will be a next time.

:)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:33:30 AM
DR vixmom - Ugh!

Just remember... Karma!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:34:09 AM
I just caught up on  the weekend posts...You should write a magazine article Jose. "Eating Your Way through NYC,  A Guide to NYC's Most Delicious Secrets"

No, make it a book!  I'll buy a copy.  You could organize bus tour groups it could be a whole enterprise!!!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:35:01 AM
DR SWW - Thanks for the "Good Eats" reminder.  Unfortunately, I happen to be staying in an apartment with no TV reception/cable, so... I shall have to check it out in it's invariable reruns.  Or at least check the recipes out online.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:36:25 AM
I just caught up on  the weekend posts...You should write a magazine article Jose. "Eating Your Way through NYC,  A Guide to NYC's Most Delicious Secrets"

No, make it a book!  I'll buy a copy.  You could organize bus tour groups it could be a whole enterprise!!!

Hmm...  There's a book in me somewhere on some topic.  Maybe that is it!

;)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:37:17 AM
...I wonder what demand is for a combination cookbook/audition etiquette text?

;D
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 08:38:59 AM


« Last Edit: Today at 08:29:51am by vixmom »
 

NO FAIR! I was working on a nice "hope the bandages come off soon" post then you go and edit!

der Brucer
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 08:39:04 AM
Still no word on the Floor Men.  I'm actually kind of hoping it gets pushed to next week.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:41:51 AM
There is a commercial that has been running all morning on the radio for some bank, the point of it all is supposed to be that you can get things done your way at this bank,  but they start the ad with the announcer saying something like "Jane knows what she wants" and then Jane orders her lunch wiyth a detailed description of how she wants her grilled cheese sandwich and the type of pickle she wants on the side.  I have no idea what bank the ad is for , but I am desperately craving a grilled cheese sandwich  now
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:43:01 AM
Hmm...  There's a book in me somewhere on some topic.  Maybe that is it!

;)

You write the book, I'll organize the bus tours!! :D
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:44:30 AM
NO FAIR! I was working on a nice "hope the bandages come off soon" post then you go and edit!

der Brucer

 I took one look at that post,( I was getting angry all over again writing about it) and realized I had more typos then  correctly spelled words int here and thought I better do some revision!!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 08:48:23 AM

The "guest conducter"  was a high school music teacher from another school district who has a Chamber Orchestra of about 16 high school kids that she parades around the Island doing various shows etc.
 

Ideas:

1. Has your district no muscial group to use in place of Momma Rose's Nubile Nuggets?

2. Spreading vicious rumors of what "goes on" on these tours would be mean, vicious, and nearly illegal, albeit justly deserved, self-satisfying, and most likely effective 8)

3. You could egg her car  ;D

der Brucer (hoping that these helpful thoughts will assuage the tummy-churning "I so hate that bitch and there is nothing I can do about" feeling)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:49:47 AM
As for Stephen Schwartz songs...

Working was one of the first records I remember playing over and over - after checking it out at the local library.  So, "Fathers and Sons" and "It's An Art" and even "Neat To Be A Newsboy" (even the song is basically obsolete nowadays).

From The Baker's Wife, "Where Is The Warmth?", "Proud Lady" (with the original ending - there's now a third one for the upcoming Papermill production), "Gifts of Love", "Chanson", "Romance", "Look For The Woman", etc...  Well, basically the whole show.  Including "Meadowlark".

Godspell from top to bottom.

Pippin from top to bottom.  My all-time favorite show to play.  Oh, and "Marking Time" which was cut from the show - but subsequently recorded by our very own BK with vocals by Michael Rupert.

Children of Eden - "Spark of Creation", "In Whatever Time We Have".

Movie songs - "Out There" (I love playing this at auditions when the tenor gets it right!), "Colors of the Wind", and "Cold Enough To Snow".  -Of course, these songs have music by Alan Menken.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 08:50:47 AM
The word has come down and the word is the Floor Men are coming next week - apparently there was a slight communication blip.  I'm glad, because now I can sleep my requisite hours before coming to New York.

I have to actually print up about twenty more CDs of Bus and Truck to make sure I have enough for the NY signing.  I really only need about six more, but I may as well have a few extras, plus they probably won't sell that many books anyway.  I'm probably safe with what I have, but I'm a worry-wart.  That means I also have to print up more of the little paper booklet thing, too, but I'm printing a few copies of the book manuscript anyway, so I may as well do everything at once.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 08:51:01 AM
Wall Man is done.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:54:36 AM
OK - It's almost Noon here in NYC, and I need to get moving.  As to where I'm moving, I shall see where my feet and MetroCard take me.

I do have to make a run to the post office, but other than that, it's another free-for-all day for me.  I may go by the Steinway Building, and get some practicing done in one of the salons.  I love going in there!

Oh... And it looks like I have invitations to both the "Nothing Like A Dame" fundraiser at the Marquis, as well as Patti LuPone's Carnegie Hall concert tonight.  Hmm... Talk about bad timing/programming.  I can't imagine the stress some theatre queens must be going through right now.  ;)

-I think I may just go ahead with my original plans and see "Millions" tonight...

We shall see...

Laters...
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 08:55:59 AM
Der Brucer, the IMDB has nothing to do with WGA writing credits and, as far as I know, in film there is no such thing as an official WGA "writiing consultant" credit.  I don't believe there is such a WGA designation in TV credits either.  the IMDB often uses PR material that is inaccurate before a film's release.

I know that Josh wrote several drafts  few years back under the heavy direction and input of Spielberg.  When I spoke to him about a month ago, it was still undetermined whether he'd get credit or not.  I don't know whether the WGA arbitration process has happened or not.  But if it has, and Mr. Friedman has been denied credit, it wouldn't be the first time this where one writer works long and hard on a project and
brings it to fruition and then the producers bring in a big star writer whose name they want on the film.

This habit of cavalierly throwing writers off scripts has nothing to do with Mr. Koepp, who I've met and respect and who refused to re-write me once.  

Shortly after DRAGONHEART, a much-loved script by everybody at Universal was greenlit, the head of the studio got the bright idea that the story needed about a dozen funny lines to punch it up (This was the same studio head who crashed the first studio meeting on the script and the first thing out of his mouth was "Who's Chuck Pogue?" whereupon he began to lavish praise on me and the script, saying it was the best script the studio had.)  Anyway, the Studio Head sent the script to David Koepp to give him those dozen lines.  Koepp sent it back, saying, "You already have them."  And that was effectively  the end of any other writer coming on to punch up my script.  I later had a chance to thank Mr. Koepp for his kindness at a WGA function.

But the abuse of replacing writers in this industry is why I was on WGA board for four years.  I ran on a purely "creative rights" manifesto and was elected by a hefty margin.  I won't be happy till screenwriters have the same power that our brethren in the Dramatist Guild do...no one can change a word without our permission.


TACITURN.  I always like the taciturn hero Randy Scott played in his westerns.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 08:56:51 AM
Quote
One day God was looking down at Earth and saw all of the rascally behavior that was going on. He decided to send an angel down to Earth to check it out. When the angel returned, he told God, "Yes, it is bad on Earth; 95% are misbehaving and only 5% are not."

God thought for a moment and said, "Maybe I had better send down a second angel to get another opinion."

When this second angel returned he went to God and said, "Yes, it's true!
The Earth is in decline; 95% are misbehaving, but... 5% are being good."

God was not pleased. So He decided to E-mail the 5% that were good, because He wanted to encourage them, you know... give them a little something to help them keep going.

Does anyone know what the EMail said?

der Brucer

PS Neither do I.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 09:02:20 AM
JRand54, I somewhat agree with you about Spielberg.  He's real hit or miss for me.  I think often certain ideas just become so bloated and overdone.  

I do disagree about CLOSE ENCOUNTERS though.  I think it may be Spielberg's best.

But I've never understood the craze over ET.  It's perfectly okay, but I've seen it once...and once was enough.

I found AI to be perfectly wretched, likewise the bloated, overwrought, frenetic HOOK.  I have a screener of MINORITY REPORT that I have never watched.

I suspect the last Spielberg I really enjoyed would be CATCH ME IF YOU CAN.  I also thought it the best use of Leonardo De Caprio.  One of the few adult roles I've bought him in.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 09:03:01 AM
Now, if I was to make a grilled cheese sandwich I would probably just use white bread and american cheese slices or rye bread and cheddar slices..

but I bet Jose & DR SWW could come up with some nifty ways of turning a grilled cheese sandwich into a mouthwatering gourmet meal....

hmmm, three types of cheese, homemade whole wheat breads with herb butter, sliced portebello mushroom...

what do you say  fellas.. I throw down a challenge (remembering I do not like tomato slices) create for me a wonderful grilled cheese sandwich recipe
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JMK on March 14, 2005, 09:04:25 AM
TOD:  Meadowlark, Spark of Creation, Magic to Do.

Magic Show DVD:  it's hideous (IMHO).  Not quite as bad as the William Katt Pippin, but close.

Watched the Harlow documentary on Dinner at Eight last night.  Wow--that Carroll Baker movie was, how do you say, fictionalized!!  Who knew?   ;D
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JMK on March 14, 2005, 09:05:54 AM
G-d's email:  You may have already won a BMW!!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 09:06:35 AM

I know that Josh wrote several drafts  few years back under the heavy direction and input of Spielberg.  When I spoke to him about a month ago, it was still undetermined whether he'd get credit or not.  I don't know whether the WGA arbitration process has happened or not.  But if it has, and Mr. Friedman has been denied credit, it wouldn't be the first time this where one writer works long and hard on a project and
brings it to fruition and then the producers bring in a big star writer whose name they want on the film.


Is there a way in the process to credit Mr. Friedman without reducing Mr. Koepp's promised rewards?

der Brucer (at least for original screenplays you have the "story by" out.)

? Could you get away with Screenplay by "A", Story by "B", based on the novel by "C".
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 09:12:39 AM
but I bet Jose & DR SWW could come up with some nifty ways of turning a grilled cheese sandwich into a mouthwatering gourmet meal....

what do you say  fellas.. I throw down a challenge (remembering I do not like tomato slices) create for me a wonderful grilled cheese sandwich recipe

Can I play?

1. Slice of Sour Dough bread spread with Mayo
2. Slice of American Cheese.
3. Slices of previously cooked crisp bacon
4. Slice of Swiss Cheese
5. Slice of Sour Dough bread spread with Dijon Mustard

Serve with tangy cole slaw and a nice crisp Kosher Dill.

der Brucer

PS You can substitute potato chips for the slaw.

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 09:19:10 AM
RE: CATCH ME IF YOU CAN - yes I enjoyed that movie (and the soundtrack) a lot.  I thought Leo was well used by Mr Spielberg.  As usual, anything I say about ANYTHING is just my opinion.  I, too, am not known to be taciturn.

DR VIXMOM - one of the reasons I stopped teaching was because I loved the kids - but hated dealing with the parents....most of whom had the attitude displayed by the orchestra leader in your post!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 09:20:26 AM
DR CP can correct me if I am wrong.  I was under the opinion that there can only be three writer's names credited on any one script....and that different scriptwriters are seperated by "and" but two writers credited with an ampersand A & B - count as only one name.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 09:21:51 AM
I - as a playwright - am constantly amazed at the number of actors and directors (and lighting technicians and stage managers) who all know exactly how to rewrite a script.  This is particularly true with an original script being produced for the first or second time.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 09:25:59 AM
Does anyone know what the EMail said?

der Brucer

PS Neither do I.


I think it got caught in my Spam filter!!  ;D
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 09:29:23 AM
One might as well ask is there a way of rewarding Mr. Koepp without  reducing Mr. Friedman's promised rewards?  

But therein you have hit upon the whole problem of cavalier re-writing.  Because in the guild process, credit is tied to back-end monies and residual/royalty dough, you often don't get real script doctoring and re-writing that is done purely to enhance and improve the script (and all of that is purely subjective anyway...it's usually some writer who manages to execute some dumb ass note of the producers or studio, not one who has improved the script in dramatic terms).  

Mostly you get re-writers coming on, trying to re-write a large enough percentage of the script so that they can snare credit and get a cut of the back-end (at which point...the earlier writer's back-end gets cut...which is why I always angle for sole credit even if some re-writer has ruined my script...if I ain't getting artistic satisfaction, I'm damned well going to try and keep my financial satisfaction).

The best way to resolve this in my mind as always been first writer gets credit and everyone who comes after is anonymous script doctor there for the biggest fee he can negotiate, but he gets no back-end.  At the very least, I think back-end monies should be untied to credit.

That way everyone knows what the score is going in, only necessary re-writes get done, and a guy can decide whether the fee is worth the work as an anonymous script doctor.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 09:30:38 AM
From the Most Irritating Headline Department:

Quote
Mario Drops Out of 'Idol'
Timberlake sing-alike and fan favorite cites personal reasons; castoff Nikko Smith gets second chance

Coming in 13 th in a nation-wide field of 1000s is hardly being "cast-off".

It's as bad as the "Jones Fails, has to settle for Olympic Silver" headlines.

der Brucer (off to fry a pound of bacon)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 09:34:43 AM
Can I play?

1. Slice of Sour Dough bread spread with Mayo
2. Slice of American Cheese.
3. Slices of previously cooked crisp bacon
4. Slice of Swiss Cheese
5. Slice of Sour Dough bread spread with Dijon Mustard

Serve with tangy cole slaw and a nice crisp Kosher Dill.

der Brucer

PS You can substitute potato chips for the slaw.



Um, sounds good, can I have BOTH chips and coleslaw  ;D

It's 12:30 I am going to lunch!!! Any one care to guess what I'm getting? :D
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 09:38:46 AM
Jrand54, I think you're right about the number of credited writers.  An ampersand denotes a "writing team" which counts as one writer, so technically, I guess you could have six credited writers.

I too am amazed at how everyone and his brother will tell the writer how to write.  They wouldn't think of telling the electrician how to do his job...or the scenic designer...or the prop guy...or cameraman...but no one has a problem telling the writer how to do his.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: George on March 14, 2005, 09:40:31 AM
Speaking of "Lion Tamer," I've got sitting on my to-watch DVD shelf (more like a cabinet), the DVD of THE MAGIC SHOW that I've never watched. I need to put that in at some point this week.

Ummm....no you don't.  Not really. ::)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 09:45:18 AM
Our little discussion on screenwriting seems ti have prompted a large ad-by-google for the New York Film Academy's Screenwriting Courses - I surprised we didn't get one from the New York Association of Creative Artists Attorneys Inc.

der Brucer
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 09:52:18 AM
Whilst watching the various silly and badly done documentaries on The Terminal DVD, I was struck by one particular moment where Hanks and Spielberg are going on and on how one particular scene wasn't working and they stayed up quite late rewriting it and making it great.  Now, my problem with this is - who do they think they are - and why, in all the months of script meetings and notes and preproduction and read-throughs did it not occur to these very same people that there was a problem with the scene in question.  Why only the night before?  This just smacks of why movies are so terrible today.  Actors, of course, have run amok with power, and directors think they're better writers than the screenwriter.  And yet, these same actors bow to certain writers - they worship at the altar of David Mamet and wouldn't think of changing a syllable of his (nor would he let them).  When I watch classic films with classic scripts I wonder how many actors rewrote or improvised their dialog.  Probably zero.  And I think we'd have to agree that movies were, for the most part, better for it.  Leave the writing to the writers.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: George on March 14, 2005, 09:53:42 AM
These are just a few of the many Stephen Schwartz songs that I love (I think that most of these have already been mentioned):

Blame It On the Summer Night
Chanson
Crowded Island
Just Around the River Bend
In Whatever Time We Have
Life Goes On
Meadowlark
No Time At All
Out There
Spark of Creation
Stranger to the Rain
West End Avenue
What Is This Feeling
Where Is the Warmth?
I love "The Return of the Animals" instrumental in the second act!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 09:54:21 AM
I've already  been to Kinko's.  Now I shall go buy a carry-on bag.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 10:01:17 AM
But you bring up another issue, BK.  Which is simply the amount of bullshit, hype, and ego-driven lies that get told on these DVD extras.  Usually the by the director, in attempt to promote and entrench the greatest French Farce since Feydeau...mainly, the auteur myth.  They probably didn't stay up all night re-writing the scene at all.  So many of the egos in Hollywood are like OJ Simpson...they've been telling the lies so long, they've actually started to believe them.

And,no, in the golden era of flm.  There was no willy-nilly changing of script.  They may have still used writers at times like tissue paper, but once that script was set, it was set.  And directors were hred hands just like wrters.  None of this auteur pretension.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 10:07:45 AM
They wouldn't think of telling the electrician how to do his job...or the scenic designer...or the prop guy...or cameraman...but no one has a problem telling the writer how to do his.

DR CP finished my thought for me.  :P
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 10:07:50 AM
From the horses mouth: (From IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/wga)

Quote
The Writers Guild of America
The Writers Guild of America (WGA) has a well-defined process for determining credits on projects produced under its jurisdiction. These productions are generally USA-controlled live-action film and TV projects, produced either by studios or major independent producers. In 1999, the WGA began furnishing credits directly to IMDb. The absence of the WGA indicator on earlier credits should not be construed as a sign of unofficial status, merely a sign of age.

In general, the credits determination process works as follows:

When the film is finished shooting, the producer sends a notice to the guild and the writers proposing the writing credits. If any writer disagrees with those credits, or if the proposed credits require mandatory arbitration (e.g., a producer or director sharing a writing credit), a WGA arbitration committee reads all drafts of the script and various supporting materials and determines the actual/official credits.

If there is no source material (novel, play, article, etc.) and the same writers receive credit for both the story and screenplay, the credit is "written by".

The "story by" credit is used when the basic narrative structure was originally written with intent to be used for a movie (as opposed to a short story) and the actual screenplay had different authors. A shared "story by" credit is the minimum awarded to the author of an original screenplay.

If there was previously existing source material but the writer creates a substantially new and different story from the source, then the "screen story" (or "television story") credit is used.

Finally, the "screenplay by" (or "teleplay by") credit is used to denote the screenplay (teleplay) authorship if the story credit had to be separated as above.

In rare cases, "adaptation by" can be awarded to a writer who shapes the script without qualifying for one of the above credits.

There are other specialized credits used for television programs such as documentaries and audience participation shows.

Within each of these categories, members of a writing team are joined by "&"; teams or writers working on separate drafts are joined by "and".

The IMDb will not accept uncredited writers for titles with WGA-determined credits.


It seems one can get two bites at the apple:

The Terminal lists:

Quote
Writing credits (WGA)
Andrew Niccol   (story) and  
Sacha Gervasi   (story)
 
Sacha Gervasi   (screenplay) and  
Jeff Nathanson   (screenplay)
 

Which I suspect, gives Sacha double pay.

der Brucer
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 10:08:42 AM
Well I know that when Ginger Rogers arrived on the set and announced "There is something radically wrong with this scene..." it meant that she had been out dancing the night before and hadn't had a chance to learn her lines.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 10:11:29 AM
And directors were hred hands just like wrters.  

Would you say this to Hitchcock?

der Brucer
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 10:14:24 AM
Good Afternoon!

I'm back... just for a sec.

My trip to the post office took a bit longer than expected.  But since I ended up going at lunch time... Ah, well.. Not in a "rush" mood today, and the people watching was quite fun indeed!  I especially adored the one man who kept asking to speak to the clerk's supervisor, and then went onto ask to see the clerk's mother!  HA!

After I was done at the post office, I "realized" I had to take a bathroom break, and since the Marriott Marquis was about 120 blocks away, and the apartment only 5...

Plus, I had forgotten to put DR elmore's office number in my cell phone...

OK...

I'm off...

Laters...
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 10:15:17 AM
OH!!  After brunching with my friend, John, yesterday, I have to ask...

DR Rodzinksi - Do you like living in Canada?

;)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 10:15:42 AM
Ciao for niao.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 10:19:47 AM
Tales from the You Can't Win department (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150090,00.html):

Quote
Furniture Flap
Norway's prime minister says Swedish furniture giant IKEA (search) is guilty of sex discrimination because its instruction manuals only depict men. IKEA never shows women assembling furniture and the prime minister says, "There's no justification for it." But an IKEA spokesman says that it has a strong presence in Muslim countries and that using women in instruction manuals could offend Islamic customers.

der Brucer
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 10:21:00 AM
Devil's advocate time:

Aren't songs by famous composers "re"arranged because someone thinks they should be sung a different way, or because an "interpreter" (i.e. singer) isn't comfortable with the key the song is written in?

Isn't that the same thing a director is doing when his actor of choice would be more comfortable with the role being adapted to his "key"?

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: George on March 14, 2005, 10:29:55 AM
And,no, in the golden era of flm.  There was no willy-nilly changing of script.  They may have still used writers at times like tissue paper, but once that script was set, it was set.  And directors were hred hands just like wrters.  None of this auteur pretension.

And lyric writing, also.  I have a CD compilation (commercially released, not my own) called "Can't Help Lovin' Dat Man" that has songs from the 1920s and 1930s originally written to be sung by women, but recorded by men...without changing any of the lyrics!  It's not that they were a bunch of gay men who came out, but the laws of the time wouldn't allow ANY changing of the lyrics...not even the gender.  They couldn't change "he" to "she" or vice versa.  But these performers (band with singers, usually) wanted to record the songs because they were popular songs of the day, so they just recorded them as they were written.  It's a pretty cool compilation.  It's out of print now, but you can click HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=307&item=4710131465&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) to see a copy that's available on eBay.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 10:53:37 AM
If a director and an actor have the change the key of the writing, I think they must have missed the writer's original point.

And if they have to change the key, why was the actor cast?  I would think you would want an actor to serve the script rather than the other way around.  Although I know that's not the way it works.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: MBarnum on March 14, 2005, 10:59:47 AM

And,no, in the golden era of flm.  There was no willy-nilly changing of script.  They may have still used writers at times like tissue paper, but once that script was set, it was set.  And directors were hred hands just like wrters.  None of this auteur pretension.

In my interview with actress Diana Darrin, during the filming of 20th Century Fox's THE BROKEN LAND (1962) she told me that the ending of the film was simply not working and so they (the director and the lead actors Robert Sampson, Jack Nicholson, Kent Taylor, and herself) spent most of the night rewriting that section of the script. However, she did make sure that I knew that they had the writer's permission to do so...and I doubt there was any auteur pretension involved in this film. LOL! (Actually, it really is a very good western).

And I don't know what years you are including in "the Golden Era," so maybe 1962 isn't part of that,  but I am guessing this was not a first in films. But it does sound like they had some respect for the writer in this case
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 11:03:11 AM
If a director and an actor have the change the key of the writing, I think they must have missed the writer's original point.

And if they have to change the key, why was the actor cast?  I would think you would want an actor to serve the script rather than the other way around.  Although I know that's not the way it works.

Okay....but shouldn't the same thing be said about singers, then?

If a singer cannot do justice to a song without changing the key or arrangement, should the singer simply NOT sing the song?

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 11:14:07 AM
Speaking of "Lion Tamer," I've got sitting on my to-watch DVD shelf (more like a cabinet), the DVD of THE MAGIC SHOW that I've never watched. I need to put that in at some point this week.
Trust me, you can wait a little longer.  It's shoddy, and some of the numbers have been replaced with lesser material.  Doug Henning was better represented by his television specials.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 11:17:19 AM
Okay....but shouldn't the same thing be said about singers, then?

If a singer cannot do justice to a song without changing the key or arrangement, should the singer simply NOT sing the song?



By these standards, I should never sing any song, including Happy Birthday... of course most people say that anyway, no matter how low their standards
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 11:19:51 AM
Der Brucer, I refer you to Rudy Behlmer's two fine books MEMO and Warners Bros Presents.  In Memo look at how Selznick rode herd on Hitchcock during REBECCA.  In the Warners Bros. book reading the memoes you can see if a director did not shoot scene 54A, some producer was down on on his butt...or even if he shot it badly.  Look at how many directors GONE WITH THE WIND had?  Even a great film like ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD had two directors.  Directors in the thirties and forties (my definition of the Golden Age...the strong studio-controlled contract days) were rarely in on the development of the script or the prep of a film, nor were they involved in the post-production process they way they are now...The film went to the editing department and was put together there; the director went on to his next "directing" gig.  Directors, just like writers, went from assignment to assignment and didn't oversee a film from genesis to opening night.  Producers were the force then and rode herd on the film.  

It wasn't until the fifties and the break-up of the studio system (oddly enough, concurrent with the "auteur myth" from Europe.  I always say the directors embraced the auteur myth and fooled the businessmen taking over the studios who didn't know any better that it was the natural order of things...Jack Warner or Sam Goldwyn or Louis Mayer would've just laugh at them) that directors and actors started becoming the engines of films.  

In the thirties and forties, if a director wanted to be a force, he also produced (like Capra did, I believe).  And if they wanted to edit their film, they learned to "cut in the camera" like Ford, so that there was only one viable way to put the thing together.

I would also refer you to Views from a Window: Conversations with Gore Vidal, Edited by Robert J. Stanton and Gore Vidal, Lyle Stuart books, 1980.  Check out the section entitled Artists and Barbarians and read Mr. Vidal's trenchent and true remarks (as well as vastly amusing) remarks about the film industry and directors in particular and what frauds he finds them.  He calls them plagarists.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 11:19:58 AM
I am eating a grilled muenster and bacon on rye bread sandwich, witha lovely dill pickle and Wise "Deli Kettle Cooked " chips on the side.  This was exotic as I gcould get with the limited resources of the building's cafeteria.

Oh, DR Sandra, no Cherry Coke, so I had to settle for Dr. Pepper
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 11:20:00 AM
Yesterday I was out with DH, my folks and the Vixter at her All County Music Festival...
...I am sorry it seems everything I post lately seems to be a rant and a complaint... I'll try to find some more cheerful stuff to post later today.    
I suggest sending your rant to the local newspaper.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 11:22:00 AM
Read Jimmy Cagney's autobiography and he clearly states that he and actors of his day were re-writing what they considered hack writing all the time back in the day.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 11:27:22 AM
Changing a line here and there on the set is not "re-writing".
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 11:33:08 AM
One of my pet peeves, back when I was doing amateur theater, was folks putting lines into "their own words" because "they" wouldn't speak like the character they were portraying was written.

I once had the temerity to suggest a person try "acting" for a change instead of being himself, thus solving the problem of worrying about how "he" would never say something the way it was written.

Unfortunately, most directors would rather let an actor change his line than deal with the whining.

: )
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Stuart on March 14, 2005, 11:34:45 AM
Stephen Schwartz favorites:

Day by Day
By My Side
On the Willows
Magic to Do
Corner of the Sky
Love Song
Morning Glow
Lion Tamer
West End Avenue
Meadowlark
Chanson
Gifts of Love
Where is the Warmth?
Fathers and Sons
Children of the Wind
Blame it on the Summer Night
Rags
I'm Not that Girl
Defying Gravity

I am sure I am missing a few, but that's the gist.

DR Ben: Where in Brooklyn was your shindig?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ben on March 14, 2005, 11:37:11 AM
DR Stuart:

Way out (for me anyway) in Bay Ridge near the end of the R line (69th Avenue I believe) and then a 15 minute walk to the abode.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 11:38:51 AM
DR RLP - I can't speak to music.  I don't write music.  Are songs written to be sung in just specific keys and not others?  And I have heard a few songs done by singers that I wished had never been recorded.  I am NOT a fan of singers who go off on their own making "oohs" and "dahs" and "whee-ahs" in songs - which I guess includes many of the "Divine" jazz singers who regularly disregard and disrepect composers....bleh!

It has been my (limited) experience that an actor or director wants changes that fit his own particular agenda or ego rather than the good of the piece.  
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 11:39:47 AM
Wall Man is done.
This sounds like a song.  Something along the lines of "Blow High, Blow Low."
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 11:46:02 AM
Changing a line here and there on the set is not "re-writing".

The writer in me says that depends on where the "here and there" are. The point is, the idea that actors held scripts as sacrosanct in the golden era is not fully correct. Not if Cagney on Cagney is to be believed.

When directing, adhering precisely to the written word is the exciting part of the challenge. I am a stickler for it. However, if you took all of the scenes out of all films that came about due to diretorial or even actor's changes, there would no doubt be a lot of great material missing from our cinema.  
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 11:52:57 AM
Rosalind Russell not only wrote every movie she was ever in, she also wrote most of the music for WONDERFUL TOWN, and did all her own singing in GYPSY.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 11:54:39 AM
Excellent discussion.

Changing the key of a song is not changing the NOTES - one is not rewriting the song musically or lyrically when one changes the key.  I detest singers who mess around with lyrics and yes that includes Sinatra when he'd do it, and it certainly includes Streisand when she's had the temerity to ask Sondheim and Rupert Holmes to change lyrics because she wants some other journey than that of the song as written.

And, as Pogue says, changing a line or two on the set is not rewriting.  

That's not to say that there aren't plenty of crappy scripts that need help, but studios shouldn't buy the crap in the first place and then spend millions having every word and plot point changed by others who frequently are no better.  All one has to do is look at most of the current tripe that comes out with six writers getting credit and you just scratch your head and say - six writers and THIS is what the finished product is like?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 11:54:48 AM
I can't speak for movies, either.  But (even back in the golden years) I think scripts came from many different sources and were subject to changes.  I have no doubt that actors and directors made changes in scenes - many instances ARE documented.  They were probably improvements, but then we never got to see or read what was improved upon.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 11:55:53 AM
The wonderful Claudette Colbert is on TCM tonight in TOVARICH and MIDNIGHT!!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 11:56:43 AM
The Lovely Wife sent me some more pics of November's London trip.  Here's me in the male vocalist section of the Dress Circle up on Monmouth Street just up from our flat.  I am holding a CD of Haines His Way:
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 11:58:23 AM
Here's yours truly on the infamous Wobbly Bridge
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 11:59:26 AM
Here's the National theatre at night:
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 12:01:12 PM
Here's the London Eye ferris wheel taken from the Waterloo Bridge:
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 12:02:19 PM
Just right of the london Eye you can see the Houses of Parliament and Big Ben on the other side of the Thames.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 12:02:47 PM
I too am amazed at how everyone and his brother will tell the writer how to write.  They wouldn't think of telling the electrician how to do his job...or the scenic designer...or the prop guy...or cameraman...but no one has a problem telling the writer how to do his.
HUH???  The electrician might be fairly safe, but the scenic designer certainly has to draw up plans and sketches which have to be approved before the sets are built (tacitly, someone is telling him how to do his job).  Same is true of the prop guy, especially when the props are being designed for the show.  Cameraman?  What do you thing reshoots are for?  (Not to mention screening the dailies.)

Having someone else come in to re-do their work is something else again, but everyone gets their work critiqued, and not just in Hollywood.  I even got this when I was a file clerk, even much later in the game when someone would come along with this "bright new idea" that had been discarded years before the someone showed up.  Growing a thicker skin and learning not to take it all personally helps.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 12:09:51 PM
Please send details on how not to take it personally, DR SWW.  This trait has been a lifelong problem of mine.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 12:10:52 PM
Great London photos!  

How could DRJOSE have NOT taken his camera this trip?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 12:12:40 PM
DR RLP - I can't speak to music.  I don't write music.  Are songs written to be sung in just specific keys and not others?  And I have heard a few songs done by singers that I wished had never been recorded.  I am NOT a fan of singers who go off on their own making "oohs" and "dahs" and "whee-ahs" in songs - which I guess includes many of the "Divine" jazz singers who regularly disregard and disrepect composers....bleh!

It has been my (limited) experience that an actor or director wants changes that fit his own particular agenda or ego rather than the good of the piece.  

There was only one show I ever did where I remember willfully changing a line. actually it was one word, but my change meant all the other actors had to follow my lead. My character was in a years long dispute with her sister over an amethyst brooch only I could not pronounce the darn word no matter how I tried and the playwright (it was a local playwright, original play would not change it...so I did to emerald brooch.  None of the other actors ahd a problem but it made the playwright furious....
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 12:13:33 PM
Woody, the point is no one tells him how to draw or design or do his job. They may critique his work, but with a writer they start telling you specifically how to write the scene.  They change your dialogue to their own misguided notions of what sounds better, the change plot structure, they pull delicately-wrought strands that can unravel whole sections.  They don't don't get that specific with scenic designers or costumers or cameramen, because they know they cannot do that work...They can't DO the writer's work either, but the difference is THEY ALL THINK THEY CAN WRITE, so with the author they impose themselves more into his job and his work.

And you cannot survive in Hollywood without a thick skin.  That doesn't mean you shouldn't take it personally when it's your work they're screwing up and that you shouldn't bellow about it when it happens.  The reason the writers in Hollywood are on the low end of the totem pole and continually get trounced on is because they are a bunch of cowardly wusses who whine among themselves but refuse to stand up and call bullshit bullshit when it's bullshit!  
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 12:15:14 PM
We're not talking about critiquing.  We're talking about actors and directors doing a writer's job.  That is something wholly other.  It IS the director's job to oversee everything and to give notes - no one is arguing that.  Sometimes those notes will be spot on, sometimes not, but it is the writer or the set decorator or the cameraman who will make the changes requested - in other words, the actors don't DO the cameraman's JOB, the director doesn't do his JOB (i.e. light the set and deal with camera issues) - he may say something, he may criticize, but then the cameraman is left to address the problem, rather than the actor or director actually doing the job themselves.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 12:16:49 PM
I have several people read my stuff in manuscript - they may give me their thoughts and opinions - IF I choose to address them, it's ME doing the work, not them.  They don't tell me HOW to address their problems, they tell me, from their point of view, what things in the manuscript, if any, might be problematic for them.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 12:19:33 PM
Pogue and I were both posting the same thought at the same time.  This is called serendipity.

And furthermore - TACITURN!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 12:20:11 PM
I'm soooo glad the Floor Men aren't coming this week.

I'm going to my mail place to see if there are any packages for me, and to ship out a couple of things.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 12:20:27 PM
And,no, in the golden era of film.  There was no willy-nilly changing of script.  They may have still used writers at times like tissue paper, but once that script was set, it was set.  And directors were hred hands just like wrters.  None of this auteur pretension.
Bull.

A classic example is Gone With the Wind.  That script went through a number of rewrites, most notably when Victor Fleming took over as director, proclaimed the film "had" no script, and shut down shooting for seventeen days (at great expense for just holding the sets) while Ben Hecht rewrote Sidney Howard.  And yes, I checked the DVD's documentary before posting this.  (Four-disc collector's edition, disc three, "The Making of a Legend: Gone With the Wind," chapter twenty.)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Stuart on March 14, 2005, 12:20:47 PM
DR Stuart:

Way out (for me anyway) in Bay Ridge near the end of the R line (69th Avenue I believe) and then a 15 minute walk to the abode.

Alas, not anywhere near where I (or DR Jay) used to live.  :(
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 12:21:15 PM
Twelve people - we've got us a quorum on the forum - or a jury.  Maybe we could do a version of the classic play about the jury and call it: TWELVE ANGRY HAINSIES/KIMLETS.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 12:21:24 PM
LOL.....DR JMK - yes Carroll Baker's HARLOW was a major piece of.....fiction.  It didn't start out that way.  It was originally going to be a thoughtful film directed by Carol Reed - then Joseph E. Levine got involved and then Bill Sargent and his knock-off version got going....and the rest is history.  To see the early pre-production photos in which Carroll is made up and dressed to an eerie Harlow impersonation and then to see the 1960's Edith Head-Sydney Guilliroff (sp) result is heartbreaking.

Carroll later wrote about her efforts to have the movie made as it was originally planned - per her contract - "Levine screamed: 'I piss on this contract, I piss on this movie, I piss on you...."  So they went into production, often times leaving the set before the paint was dry....Carroll watched HARLOW once on an airplane, and opined...."He pissed on the contract, he pissed on the movie, and he pissed on me."
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 12:22:49 PM
All that is true DR SWW - but I think one of the points made in that documentary is that GWTW started without a finished script...or at least one that was filmable.  :D
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 12:24:02 PM
DR vixmom - did you ask they writer why he chose Amythyst to begin with?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 12:25:30 PM
Would you say this to Hitchcock?

der Brucer
Generally, Hitch was the one doing the hiring of the writer.  And he was in the room with the writer when much of the work was being done.

Also, Hitch is something of a specialized case.

French film critics love him.  He proves the auteur theory.

*****

Addendum: Because I know der Brucer so well, I know he's referring to the body of work with which he is familiar, essentially from North by Northwest onwards.  Pogues reference to Selznick's input on Hitch's early Hollywood work is worth noting.

Which brings me too... (skip down to later in the page).
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 12:26:32 PM
I'm soooo glad the Floor Men aren't coming this week.

I'm going to my mail place to see if there are any packages for me, and to ship out a couple of things.

I  mailed you a package about an hour ago, I don't suppose it will be ther yet though   :D
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 12:27:42 PM
Ron, I look at changing a song to a singer's key more like the way an actor personalizes a role and makes it his own.  Two Hamlets can be incredibly different, but both Hamlets are using the same words to arrive at different palettes.  The same with a song, as long as a singer is singing the lyrics and following the melody, I think there is room for individual interpretation.  I love when actors bring something I never thought of to my writing, but I want him to do so with the tools I gave him, not to use them for his own jumping off place.  Same with singers.  I hate singers who think they have to hip up the words or had all kinds of squeaks, riffs, moans , groans, and Vegas everything up and show off their instrument to the detriment of the song.  As Rosemary Clooney used to say:  "I just sing the damn song."   Even in jazz riffs (and I'm not a huge jazz fan), the essence of the melody line can usually still be found underneath all the embroidery.  But BK or elmore could probably speak more knowledgeably of this than I.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: MBarnum on March 14, 2005, 12:28:20 PM
I  mailed you a package about an hour ago, I don't suppose it will be ther yet though   :D

Vixmom, you just make my day sometimes! LOL!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 12:33:13 PM
DR vixmom - did you ask they writer why he chose Amythyst to begin with?

Apparently it was "semi" autobiographical and he said by changing amythyst to Emerald I had "cheapened the memory" of his grandmother's story....silly me, i always thought emeralds were more expensive   ;)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 12:34:44 PM
Vixmom, you just make my day sometimes! LOL!

jest tryin' to be sociable ;)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: MBarnum on March 14, 2005, 12:36:05 PM
I don't recall if I mentioned this or not, but season one of DRAGNET (the 1960s run) is coming to DVD in a two-dvd set...I am quite happy about this!

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 12:36:50 PM
Oh, apropos of nothing

Last night I wtched the first half of  "What If" courtesy of DR's elmore, Ben and WFO respectively passing it along.  Tonight Part !!!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 12:47:31 PM
Ah...I see....thanks DR VIXMOM.....
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 12:57:15 PM
Woody, we can always find exceptions to the rule.  But it was Selznick overseeing script re-writes.  Read Memo, that man micro-managed everything in his films.  I wouldn't know whether Hitch hired his writers or not.  If he was also producing, most likely, but Hitch doesn't prove the auteur theory at all...which, in fact, was (just like The Method) bastardized in its American interpretation.  Hitchcock had a style that's all.   He didn't really ascend to "auteur" status until the fifties.

But he doesn't prove the auteur myth...because it's just that. Utter bollocks! No one is an auteur, because no one person is totally responsible for a film.  Unless Hitchcock wrote the script, played all the parts, directed, designed everything, built everything, fed the crew (which would have to be himself...because he'd have to do all the crew jobs too), and financed the thing, he no more deserves a possessive title of creative ownership on a film than anyone else who contributed to it.  It is not one man's film.  If any entity has a right to claim a possessive credit (or vanity credit, as we call it out here in Hollywood), it should be the studio...They are the ones who paid for it; they're the ones who own it.  It's their damn film.   They can do anything they want with it at this point...including chop it up to guitar picks.

It's just another reason why I hate DVD extras.  People just buy into any crap that's spewed on them and then all of a sudden, they're all armchair experts about the film biz.  It's like a friend of mine once said, "Everyone has two businesses; their own and show business."  But when the layman public suddenly starts thinking they're experts, it just shows how easy it is for egos in this town to get out of control and go off on flights of fancy.

I also don't know that Hitch work that intimately with the writers. When I did PSYCHO III, I read Joe Stephano's original script.  It's all on the page.  All Hitch had to do was film it.  Which he did.

"If the director changed the script...all Hell would break loose upstairs in the executive dining room.  Each day, Bernie Thau would watch rushes, and he would say, 'What happened here?  You changed the shot.  Why?'  So a large horse-laugh went through this town when the French, who are always wrong, suddenly decided all these hacks were truly great creators...France is a nation devoted to the false hypothesis on which it then builds marvelously logical structures.  Orson Welles, a very funny man, once said to me, 'You know, the French ruin everything.  They come up to you and say, "You are one of the three great directors of the cinema." ' Orson said, ' I nod, I nod.'  ' "There is D. W. Griffith. There is Orson Welles.  And there is Nicholas Ray." ' He said, ' There is always that third name that crushes you.' "

-- Gore Vidal, talking about when he was writing movies in the fifties at M-G-M --

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jennifer on March 14, 2005, 12:58:14 PM
I really enjoyed the dvd of the TERMINAL.

And I would second BK's comments that Kristin Chenoweth's version of "Lion Tamer" is perfect.  When I first got the cd I just played that song over and over and over ... :)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 01:05:37 PM
Didn't Mr Hitchcock have Mrs Hitchcock go over the scripts he was doing?  
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 01:05:58 PM
Dinner time!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 01:14:52 PM
Woody, the point is no one tells him how to draw or design or do his job. They may critique his work, but with a writer they start telling you specifically how to write the scene.  They change your dialogue to their own misguided notions of what sounds better, the change plot structure, they pull delicately-wrought strands that can unravel whole sections.  They don't don't get that specific with scenic designers or costumers or cameramen, because they know they cannot do that work...They can't DO the writer's work either, but the difference is THEY ALL THINK THEY CAN WRITE, so with the author they impose themselves more into his job and his work.

And you cannot survive in Hollywood without a thick skin.  That doesn't mean you shouldn't take it personally when it's your work they're screwing up and that you shouldn't bellow about it when it happens.  The reason the writers in Hollywood are on the low end of the totem pole and continually get trounced on is because they are a bunch of cowardly wusses who whine among themselves but refuse to stand up and call bullshit bullshit when it's bullshit!  
Clearly you are speaking of what happens now in filmmaking.  

Back in the days when the studios were cranking out product by the shovelfull, the heads of the studios were very definately in charge, and not only were they critiquing the work, they were rejecting it, replacing one person's work with another's, and when they felt it necessary calling in the minions who were doing the work and telling them exactly how to write, how to design, how to create.  (Example: Selznick commanding Hitchcock.)  This is probably why the department heads were often taking credit for their underlings when the awards were handed out...assuming the studio head hadn't already grabbed the statuette.

The studio system collapsed, replaced by corporations with people running the corporations who had no experience in the creative process.  The crafts departments were dismantled, the talent dispersed.  Which is where we are today.

Now, let's take a stab at why the writers work is such an easy target.  We've been sashaying around this for a while, it's been hinted at in some of the earlier posts.  

If writing is such an easy target, it's because most people don't think of it as writing, they think of it as something they themselves do every day, which is stringing a bunch of words together into sentences and talking.  Everyone can talk, or believes that they know how to do so.  It's a basic skill, hard-wired into our brains.  

And, when it comes to scripts, everyone, even the schlub that buys a ticket, thinks they can do it better.  I remember one discussion, back when Dreamgirls was being considered as a film property.  A co-worker of mine was insisting that they had to cast Whitney Houston...as Effie.  I objected that Effie was supposed to be a big woman, not a statuesque beauty.  I pointed out that much of the plot of the show was based on that fact.  It didn't matter to the co-worker; she wanted Whitney to play Effie so that she could sing "And I'm Telling You I'm Not Going."  Plot be damned, she wanted that performance.  

And that's how films are viewed.  It's the performance that matters.  No one in the audience (except for those of us who aren't obsessed with film) cares about the director, or the writer, or how things were designed or lit or shot.  It's all about the performance, that which gets up on the screen and is seen by schlub-with-ticket.  Or the former accountant running the corporation, same guy really.  That's the bottom line.

The only people who seem to avoid this type of thinking are the independent filmmakers.  And if they're successful in their filmmaking and grab that schlub's attention, they usually also grab Hollywood's attention and don't stay independent for long.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: elmore3003 on March 14, 2005, 01:18:08 PM
 Even in jazz riffs (and I'm not a huge jazz fan), the essence of the melody line can usually still be found underneath all the embroidery.  But BK or elmore could probably speak more knowledgeably of this than I.

I've been following all this discussion with interest, but I don't know if I have anything to add to the screenwriting part of it:  I find DRPogue's ordeal with DRAGONHEART outrageous that other folk who go on record stating how much they love his work then proceed to remake/redo his baby, but this happens in the professional theatre all the time when Sandy Wilson (THE BOY FRIEND) and Stephen Schwartz (PIPPIN) are banned by the producers/directors.  Jeffrey Stock was treated poorly by the producer of TRIUMPH OF LOVE who brought in other composers to augment the score.  But now I'm rambling; I knew I had nothing to say.  Did I zig when I should have zagged?

As to songs, we're dealing with popular song here, as opposed to classical music which also permits a certain amount of transposition, but the popular song has always been the bailiwick of the singer and his arranger to pick whatever key works best for himself and to find the attitude/approach to a song.  This can often be quite magical and invigorating, as long as the singer is honest to the melody, the harmonies, and the lyrics.  A tacky singer can trash a song, and there are a lot of not-so-bright performers out there.   I've worked with a couple, although I don't recall working with any who managed to trash a number.  I must admit that I have trashed several songs I felt deserved it (never for BK), but I hate it when I hear an arranger do it to a good song.

I was listening recently to Steve Goodman's recording of "The City of New Orleans," a song he wrote, and I had only known it through Judy Collins' recording.  Miss Collins, I was surprised to learn, had changed a couple of words in her recording, but Mr Goodman was one of her backup players!

I do like jazz singers when they're good, but bad jazz singers are as prolific as bad pop singers.  In her composer songbooks, Ella Fitzgerald amazes me.  I regard jazz as a theme and variations situation:  I expect at least once to get the tune, lyrics, and harmonies to be established before the players run with it.  This isn't always the case.

Opera singers, often when they age and the voice begins to fall, will have arias transposed down, and some classical pieces exist in several keys for singer and piano.  This is a different discussion than the one I'm wandering aimlessly through.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 01:18:44 PM
A friend who has been watching the second season of CARNIVALE (I have not) summarized for me on Saturday everything that had happened thus far this season. So, last night, I recorded CARNIVALE to see if I could get back into it knowing what I knew from last season plus my friend's summaries. Watched Sunday's episode today and found it easy to follow along. There are only a few more episodes to go in this season, so I guess I'll stay with it. Really good and lots of character interaction now taking place, too.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 01:27:54 PM
In Truffaut's HITCHCOCK, Hitchcock seems to have had intimate story conferences with some of his writers and with others simply let them write and then took their finished work and filmed it. It varied with each project.

I do know that he resented the fact that Selznick had the final say-so on their pictures together, and this was one reason he wanted to become a producer as well as a director once his contract with Selznick ran out.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 01:29:49 PM
Nice to see MEDIUM back on tonight with a new episode. I'll be watching.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 01:36:42 PM
elmore, thanks for the insightful comments on how this all works in the music world.

Of course the one thing that plays and musical compositions always have over films is that they can be done and re-done and exist in many versions at the same time.  So you can see as many good productions of Hamlet as bad and you can hear as many good renditions of Night and Day as bad ones.  

Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in the world of film.  If a film script gets ruined, it's ruined for all time.  Even if the film eventually gets re-made, they rarely go back to the original script.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 01:36:57 PM
Didn't Mr Hitchcock have Mrs Hitchcock go over the scripts he was doing?  
Yes.  Alma Reville (Mrs. H) also wrote much of his earlier work.  

Several of Hitchcock's collaborators (writers) have commented on working with Hitchcock, discussing in detail what they both wanted to do.  Hitchcock would then take the work to Alma, and the highest praise would be when he returned and said "Alma liked it."
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Tomovoz on March 14, 2005, 01:37:04 PM
DR Elmore, if you get the chance, listen to Arlo Guthrie's version of "The City Of New Orleans". (I love the Collins version too).  From memory, (not that reliable) the song did win a "Grammy" for its writer - way back when I watched the Awards and when the songs were songs!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 01:58:44 PM
I have several issues going on today, all of them making me madder than hell.

One is the Mario Vasquez issue and his withdrawal from "American Idol."  I'm mad because I've read of speculations about why he left, and those speculations have shed some lights on comments made to Mario by Simon Cowell after a performance, as well as aspersions being cast on another current contender:

http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2005/3/americanidol.html

What difference would it make???

And why are people in the 21st Century making such an issue over this?

Nothing else making me mad would be of the slightest interest to anyone here....except possibly BK if he has any dealings with PeterK of Movie Music Messageboard.  
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 02:17:31 PM
Thanks for the addy, DR Ron, because I had NO idea this was even a possibility. Admittedly, I have terrible gaydar, but this article was a complete revelation to me!

Thank god I don't visit the AI forums! All that bitter squabbling and name calling would turn me off in a second.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 02:33:35 PM
I have several issues going on today, all of them making me madder than hell.

One is the Mario Vasquez issue and his withdrawal from "American Idol."  I'm mad because I've read of speculations about why he left, and those speculations have shed some lights on comments made to Mario by Simon Cowell after a performance, as well as aspersions being cast on another current contender:


I'm amazed it took almost 24 hours before the "Mario is Gay" stories hit the wires.

I also find this comment from your linked article interesting:

Quote
This week, after Mario crooned his way through a Bee Gees ballad, the calculating Simon cracked that “there’s something very charming about you,” which could be interpreted as code for girlish or gay.

1. "calculating Simon" has been an unabashed fan of Mario and would not say something to diminish his chances. Fairer comment would have been "...an admiring Simon observed..."

2. For a British Adult to use "charming" as an appellation applied to a fellow male is not "code", it is straight (pardon the expression) forward complimentary.

And as we both know ("gaydar" time) there is no news here!

der Brucer (and isn't Ryan just the "butchest" thing, ever!)

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DearReaderLaura on March 14, 2005, 02:38:24 PM
I have nothing to add to today's discussion, so here is a photo of some swallows I saw on Saturday afternoon:
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jane on March 14, 2005, 02:39:02 PM
MBarnum I loved the book covers.

Ginny-good back vibes!

Sandra enjoy your vacation.

Rodzinski If you think your drive to LA was pretty than I’m guessing you didn’t take the I-5.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 02:42:50 PM
...an amethyst brooch only I could not pronounce the darn word no matter how I tried...

It could have been worse, she could have had a green thumb and favored her prized Amaryllis and
Aspidistras.

der Brucer
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: elmore3003 on March 14, 2005, 02:44:10 PM
elmore, thanks for the insightful comments on how this all works in the music world.

Of course the one thing that plays and musical compositions always have over films is that they can be done and re-done and exist in many versions at the same time.  So you can see as many good productions of Hamlet as bad and you can hear as many good renditions of Night and Day as bad ones.  

Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in the world of film.  If a film script gets ruined, it's ruined for all time.  Even if the film eventually gets re-made, they rarely go back to the original script.

Sad but true!  And then, as in the case of the PSYCHO remake, who gives a damn?   One thing I've regretted about a lot of the "revisical" movement in musical theatre is that, with the original writers out of the way, their work can be trashed by people who sometimes know or care less about why choices were made originally, or by people who often don't really like the original.  The Roundabout's last destruction of THE BOYS FROM SYRACUSE is a perfect example.  I'd like to see a musical revival approached as an opera:  the score is kept, dance music and all, and the production gets an interesting new slant, not an overhaul.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jane on March 14, 2005, 02:47:33 PM

Jose, after reading "How I Ate My Way From 14th and 9th Ave. Up to 168th and Broadway" I’m exhausted.   ;D  It sounds like a fun time.  I could not have easily resisted the Williams-Sonoma store.  

From what I hear you should have tried the rice pudding for dessert at Arties.   :D
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ben on March 14, 2005, 02:54:09 PM
We just finished our delicious dinner, broiled salmon, wild rice and green beans.

Anthony is getting ready for a callback for a showcase here in the city. It's a new show based on authentic British music hall. The songs are all from the period that he knows and loves (the 1850s-1920s). He wowed them at the audition and now the callback. If he gets it, the show will run and end just before his possible Forum gig in Virginia at the end of May. I'm crossing my fingers.

I will have an apricot hamantaschen and then when Mr. Morelli leaves I will ride the exercise bike for an hour. That, my friends, is my plan for the evening.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jane on March 14, 2005, 02:54:22 PM

Bruce my allergies were fine until we began ripping out cabinets this morning.  We doesn’t include me.  The contractor is doing the work.

SWW thanks for the Stephen Schwartz link.

Vixmom I hope someone spoke to the “guest conductor” regarding her lack of sensitivity.  I know how you must have felt watching the event.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 02:56:27 PM
Hey Jane!

It was 101 all the way for me.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jane on March 14, 2005, 03:00:06 PM

CharlesPogue, nice photos of your London trip.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 03:03:01 PM
Hey Jane!

It was 101 all the way for me.

WOW - Scenic Salinas!

der Brucer
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 03:09:55 PM
Interesting article DR RON.  Other speculation has been that Mario didn't want to be tied down to an AI recording contract and thought with his publicity, he might do better now on his own.  Who knows?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jane on March 14, 2005, 03:10:06 PM
Rodzinsku we take the 101 whenever possible.  We just need at least one extra day for traveling from between Ashland and LA.  Most often we take the 5 down and the 101 home.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jane on March 14, 2005, 03:11:13 PM
My brother recommended we see "The Wild Parrots of Telegraph Hill", which isn’t playing here yet.   All bird lovers should enjoy this link.  
 
http://www.pelicanmedia.org/Film.html

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 03:12:28 PM
DREAMGIRLS....oh my DR SWW....I said oh my.

And of course I remember reading about a conference that Mr Irving Thalberg was having with his writers where he wasn't getting his way.  He stood up and said:  "What is all this fuss about writing anyway.  It's just putting one word after another!"

Charles MacArthur paused a moment and then said: "No, Irving, it's putting one RIGHT word after another."
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 03:13:00 PM
Lovely photo DR LAURA.

DR RODZINSKI did you get my email?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jennifer on March 14, 2005, 03:21:34 PM
Here is another AMERICAN IDOL article:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1498063/03142005/id_0.jhtml?headlines=true

Also, DR Ron, I read the link you provided and would be surprised if that was the reason why Mario had to withdraw.  My first thought is perhaps he could be in some legal trouble.  As well there were rumors (as DR Jrand implied) that he was signing a recording contract with another label.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jane on March 14, 2005, 03:22:59 PM

I love the song MEADOWLARK.

I think I shall go for a walk and then listen to WICKED.  I should get a portable CD player to keep me company now that I take most of my walks alone.  Maybe not, listening for the local wildlife might be safer.
 ;D
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 03:35:39 PM
I also find this comment from your linked article interesting:1. "calculating Simon" has been an unabashed fan of Mario and would not say something to diminish his chances. Fairer comment would have been "...an admiring Simon observed..."

2. For a British Adult to use "charming" as an appellation applied to a fellow male is not "code", it is straight (pardon the expression) forward complimentary.

And as we both know ("gaydar" time) there is no news here!

I don't think Simon was being any more "complimentary" in his remark than he was being to Anwar or Anthony when he said they were too nice.

I've long suspected that Simon and Ryan had something going, at some time, and the little love-hate thing that keeps zinging back and forth seems to point toward "something" or other.

Even if it was complimentary, it was a bit of an odd thing for him to have said it....sort of an open flirtation with another guy, as it were.  Especially given that Simon is particularly "nervous" about how some of the men move about on stage...Simon has some weird ideas about that.

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 03:38:01 PM
Have I mentioned that I hate computers.  I have two printers.  The one printer toner cartridge has already started to dole out streaked and faded copies of photos I print up, though this cartridge is supposedly good for 3,000 pages...which it isn't even close to yet.  Text prints up just fine.  Anyway, Dell is sending me a new cartridge and drum and a new printer, just in case, it's the printer....I don't think it is and hope it isn't, as I don't want to have to hire my computer guy to go configuring everything for a new printer.  

But what really irritates me is the cartridges for the colour printer.  This is a printer that hardly ever gets used.   The other day I was printing on the black cartridge some stuff from a comic for research when the whole thing just faded out.  They tell me these cartridges once they're opened, the ink in them dries out after 8-9 months whether they are used or not.   How thrilling!

What a racket this computer business is!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 03:40:18 PM
Also, DR Ron, I read the link you provided and would be surprised if that was the reason why Marion had to withdraw.  My first thought is perhaps he could be in some legal trouble.  As well there were rumors (as DR MattH implied) that he was signing a recording contract with another label.

I'm sure those are possibilities as well.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: MBarnum on March 14, 2005, 03:43:23 PM
 

But what really irritates me is the cartridges for the colour printer.  This is a printer that hardly ever gets used.   The other day I was printing on the black cartridge some stuff from a comic for research when the whole thing just faded out.  They tell me these cartridges once they're opened, the ink in them dries out after 8-9 months whether they are used or not.   How thrilling!


Yes, I have had that happen a few times! Quite a waste...of my money!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 03:44:02 PM
Interesting article DR RON.  Other speculation has been that Mario didn't want to be tied down to an AI recording contract and thought with his publicity, he might do better now on his own.  Who knows?

I think this sort of thing is really REALLY speculative, given that he doesn't really have much of a fan base yet for such a move.  

It's tough enough to win and succeed (ask Kelly and, especially, Ruben)...and even tougher to place second and succeed (ask Justin Guarini, but Clay Aiken is DEFINITELY an exception).

The also-rans are still slugging it out (Jon Peter Lewis is working on an album with a projected summer 2005 release).

I don't think Mario's "people" are stupid enough to talk him into quitting before it begins when all this publicity and exposure could only serve to strengthen his potential career.

Still....rumors will fly.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: MBarnum on March 14, 2005, 03:47:08 PM
I do wish Ray Courts would update his guest list for the Burbank show...at this point there are hardly any performers listed to be there! I am still trying to decide for sure whether to go or not, and I have to make hotel reservations before April 1st to get the discounted rate.

Maybe there will be no celebrity guests??

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 03:48:51 PM
I did manage to buy a carry on - it's similar-sized to my gym bag (like a duffle) but it's got much more room and lots of little compartments.  It's called a Werks.  It wasn't too much either.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 04:15:35 PM
It's after 4 p.m. and still no postman in sight.

Sigh.

Fortunately, UPS is timely.  On DVD today, I received "The Last Starfighter" and "Starman."
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 04:16:03 PM
Is it my day to start new pages?

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ginny on March 14, 2005, 04:25:17 PM
Thanks to Jane and Jose for vibes to make my back feel better.  It does, even thought the muscle relaxant gave me nightmares  :o

Today's conversation about writing and writers has been most illuminating to a humble ticket-buyer like myself.

DR vixmom - I hope your grilled cheese lunch was the first of many things that make this week better than last for you.  See you Saturday!  How much do I owe for GS cookies?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 04:27:45 PM
I had no packages today.  But it looks like both this week's amazon orders shipped today rather than tomorrow, so I should have those by Wednesday at the latest.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Danise on March 14, 2005, 04:29:53 PM
Evening all!  Would you believe that I just got home about fifth teen minutes ago?!  There was a very bad wreck on the Interstate and it took the bus forever to get to the off ramp to go around it.

I would like to sign up for the Official Jose “Eat Your Way Across” tour!   If you have the time, how about Monday?

DR Ginny, I am also looking forward to meeting you.  

In case I missed it, is there a plan in place for the book reading?  Are we meeting up and walking there together or what?  I’m starting to feel excited!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 04:42:34 PM
DR RON - oh, I thought we were speculating!  LOL
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jrand74 on March 14, 2005, 04:43:18 PM
Congratulations on the new bag, MR BK!  Luggage ... can we ever have enough?

Nearly time for TOVARICH!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Danise on March 14, 2005, 04:45:56 PM
  Luggage ... can we ever have enough?

To bad only 2 bags and a carry on are allowed on the plane.  Sigh.  I'll be roughing it but I think I'll make it.   ;) :D
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Danise on March 14, 2005, 04:49:29 PM
DR Ginny, I hope your back gets better.  Vibes your way!~~~~~~~~~~
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ben on March 14, 2005, 04:52:49 PM
Danise, since I'm coming from downtown and I don't leave work until 4pm I will be going right to Drama Book Shop. I'm not sure who will be in midtown with you. I know that Ginny won't be arriving until after the reading starts and Vixmom and William F. Orr won't be attending, seeing as they are on the Isle of Long and with traffic they would be lucky to be in the city by the time the reading ends.

I will see you there and since you have a picture, I will be able to recognize you when you arrive at DBS.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 04:58:47 PM
DR RON - oh, I thought we were speculating!  LOL

We were...we are....I just wasn't prepared for the extent of the speculation...so I rambled.

:)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Danise on March 14, 2005, 05:00:42 PM
Well, I'm sure I'll figure the way there.  
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matthew on March 14, 2005, 05:00:44 PM
Hi all... sorry to be VERY E&T the last few weeks or so.  I won't bore you with the details, but this week seems more doable.  The exciting news is that the DP and I found a two-bedroom apartment at a decent price in gorgeous Mountain View, CA.  This will be the official "moving in together" thing, as we will be sharing everything.  Quite exciting.  I haven't had the chance to post the last few weeks, but I have read all the notes, quite a happening place here at HHW, as always.  I'll try and do better around here the next few weeks!!!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Danise on March 14, 2005, 05:21:00 PM
Congrats DR Matthew!  How exciting for you and DP!  
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ben on March 14, 2005, 05:55:16 PM
Danise, you'll be fine. As you know, you're on 46th Street between 6th and 7th Avenues. Your hotel is on the south or downtown side of the street. When you leave your hotel turn left and walk toward 7th Avenue. When you get to the corner (there will be a tourist trap electronics store right on the corner on your left and across the street from that on the other corner is a TGIFriday) cross the street ALL THE WAY to the other side (there is an island in the middle of the street which divides 7th Avenue and Broadway) to where the Marriott Marquis Hotel is located. You'll see the poster for La Cage Aux Folles. This is Broadway and 46th Street. Walk downtown (to your left) continuing to 40th Street. At 42nd Street magically Broadway becomes 7th Avenue. When you get to 40th Street, cross to the other side (the south side) and turn right. You will be going about halfway across the block to 250 W. 40th St. I haven't been to the store for a while so I don't remember exactly which building it's in, but the address is easy to see on the front. MapQuest and other map sites are not much help in situations like this but you should have no problem getting from your hotel on 46th Street to 40th Street between 7th and 8th Avenue. Just remember you're walking downtown (or south) for six blocks. Stay on the side of the street where the Marriott Marquis is located and you'll be there in no time. If you're unsure about getting there on time, you can leave a little early and get to the bookstore and browse around. It's a nice place to look through.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: TCB on March 14, 2005, 05:55:54 PM
T.O.D.



Favorite Stephen Schwartz songs:








Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ginny on March 14, 2005, 06:04:55 PM
I know that Ginny won't be arriving until after the reading starts...

Alas, DR's Danise and Ben, I probably won't even arrive in the city until after it's over.  My plane is due in at 5:06 and my niece's at 5:08, to different terminals at LGA.  We're going to get together at the airport and taxi into the city together.  Even if both planes are on time (which is iffy), I douby we'll be there before 7. :-\
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ginny on March 14, 2005, 06:06:17 PM
Danise - Midtown is very easy to get around and Ben has given you great directions.  You'll be fine - I just wish I could be there!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: TCB on March 14, 2005, 06:13:20 PM
I don't recall if I mentioned this or not, but season one of DRAGNET (the 1960s run) is coming to DVD in a two-dvd set...I am quite happy about this!



Don't tell me, Michael,.................. you have the hots for Ben Alexander.  (He used to own a car lot in Redondo Beach)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 06:41:32 PM
I decided to have buyer's remorse.  I went back to the mall and went to the Tumi Shop, which I hadn't even noticed the first time I was there or I would have just gone in there.

I bought a much pricier but lovely carry-on/overnight bag.  They had several to choose from, but I opted for the smallest of them because I just hate carrying big things.  The most roomy was, of course, the biggest and if I traveled more or packed heavier I probably would have sprung for it.  It had two really large compartments including one with an extra fold-out section so you can include pants and shirts on hangers.  But, it really felt and looked too much like a real suitcase, even though it definitely fits easily in an overhead compartment.  I looked at the smaller version of that case and liked it a bit better - then he showed me the leather version of the smaller case and that was the one.  It's still got two rather nice-sized compartments, and then lots of little extra zip-up compartments all over the bag.  It doesn't really look much bigger than your standard computer carry-on, the ones with all the pockets, but it's quite pretty and I really like it a lot.  I'm presuming it will meet all my needs, but if for some reason I'm not happy with it after this trip, I'll just return it and get the bigger one.  Tumi ain't cheap, but it's the only piece of luggage I've ever personally bought and it will last me for many many years, so it's a good investment.  I'm returning the one I got at Bloomingdale's.  I'm told they're very good about taking stuff back, so that won't be too much of an ordeal.  I'm going to do it right now and then head over to Mr. Grant Geissman's house to hear two tracks.  
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Michael on March 14, 2005, 06:44:50 PM
The "movie" of The Magic Show is a horror show.

It was never released to the theaters and made its debut on the CBC tv network.

The usually very able Norman Campbell directed this fiasco. They never could decided if it was going to me filmed stage presentation (complete with shots of the audience applauding etc) or a film adaptation. It kept on switching back and forth.

Saving graces were original cast member Anita Morris and Didi Conn who lost one of the best songs one important to the development of the character. The cut out West End Avenue and it was one of the most glaring badly edited moments I had ever seen. (Some of the other bad editing in musicals include the already mentioned William Katt Pippin and the film version of A Little Night Music where Lliassons was so rudley dropped from the film.)

The late Jack Creley who I worked with for a year on a tv series and was in the film did not have nice things to say about the film, but did have wonderful things to say about Anita Morris.

I don't remember much else about the film except that some of the illusions were different from the  Broadway version (which I saw) and that some of the illusions in the film turned up in Merlin. (Which I also saw) Come to think of it I actually saw Merlin before the film version of The Magic Show which is why I realized that Merlin had used illusions.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Michael on March 14, 2005, 06:48:24 PM
I should mention that as a musical comedy star Doug Henning was not. The best thing about the Magic Show when I saw it was that he was no longer in it. His Merlin performance was an embrassment. Thank god there was Chita Rivera, Nathan Lanem Michelle Nicastro, George Lee Andrews and Edmund Lyndeck in the cast. BK recorded one of the songs from the show.

I wonder if Merlin is the only Best Musical, Book and Score nominee never to be recorded in its entirity.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Michael on March 14, 2005, 06:51:06 PM
I am listening to KC's version of Lion Tamer. I have it on repeat play. For a different (Male take) of the song Bill McKinley does a wonderful version on his Everything Possible CD. Also does a great version of Disneyland with alternate lyrics.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jane on March 14, 2005, 07:23:15 PM
Thanks to Jane and Jose for vibes to make my back feel better.  It does, even thought the muscle relaxant gave me nightmares  :o


I hate those things.  I found a mild tranquilizer works better.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Michael on March 14, 2005, 07:25:08 PM
Has anyone seen any of the new MGM musicals being released tomorrow?

Bells Are Ringing, Brigadoon, Easter Parade, Bandwagon all being released by Warner Bros along with Finian's Rainbow which was produced by WB.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 07:25:39 PM
Der Brucer and I are quite happily stuffed.

I went Chinese tonight, with Sweet and Sour Chicken, and a veggie stir-fry of snow peas, water chestnuts and bean sprouts in a light garlic sauce, all served over rice.  An easy enough meal to make, but lots of prep.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Jane on March 14, 2005, 07:30:14 PM
Matthew congratulations on the move.  May you and your DP be very happy.

'night all.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: TCB on March 14, 2005, 07:30:59 PM
Well, I think it is a shame that Mario has left American Idol, regardless of his reasons.  Not having been a follower of AI until this year (and I still have my doubts), I was surprised at the number of contestants who did not seem to possess the complete package to be an entertainer. By that I mean not only having a good voice, but also having stage presence, the ability to move, and the knack for connecting with an audience.  After all, this contest is not being presented on the radio, it is a televised contest, and as such, I would expect more from these competitors.

Mario was not just a singer, but a showman.  Even when he didn’t pick a song that I was particularly fond of, he was still a pleasure to watch.  I can’t imagine that Mario would walk out of the contest in hopes of signing a recording contract, when he is still under contract to AI.  They (the producers) could make it pretty rough on someone if that person should decide he knows best what is good for himself.  He could end up linked to that AI contract for a very long time.  Personally, I have no idea of whether or not Mario is gay (although frankly, I had just assumed that he was), and it sad to think that in the year 2005, it should still be an issue, but, let’s face it, it is.

One thing does puzzle me.  Having not watched the show before, I am still a little confused about all these dynamics between Ryan and Simon and Paula, etc.  On AOL’s AI site they are still showing that clip from last month between Simon and Paula and the executive producer.  In the clip, Simon is accusing Paula of talking about him behind his back, and finally Paula blurts out, “There is someone he can’t stand.”  Now could anyone explain that moment to me?  I assume the “he” is Simon; but is the person he can’t stand supposed to be one of the finalists?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: S. Woody White on March 14, 2005, 07:45:00 PM
I've an early appointment tomorrow.  Night.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:18:38 PM
Good Evening!

So...

I took the 1 Train down to 4th Street, where I transferred to the V Train and took that to 2nd Avenue.  At least I think that's what I did.  In any case...

So, after walking around the immediate area for a few, I started walking up 2nd Avenue.  I did pass the 2nd Avenue Deli, but I did not go in.  I just wasn't that hungry at the time - and if I'm going to eat there, I better be HUNGRY!  However, I was tempted by the Polish Cafe just up a few blocks.  So, by the time I was at 16th Street I decided to cross over to the west side of 2nd Avenue.  Once across, I just kept going over to 3rd Avenue.  Then I started walking back down 3rd.

Kiehl's.  Chickpea - got lunch there, a pretty good falafel sandwich.  Various other stores, and more Starbucks than you could shake a stick at - whatever that means.  I even passed the old Carl Fischer building.  It brought back many memories of my music store days.

Once I got back down to Houston, I headed east... And this is where I started confusing myself, sort of purposely.  I basically walked through most of NoHo and SoHo.  Groome.  Wooster. Grand.  Prince.  Lafayette.  Astor Place.  Etc., etc., etc.

I would reach one corner, look one way then the other.  Then pick a direction.  Lots of window shopping.

I did get a fresh donut from Balthazar, and an exquisite and exotic chocolate truffle from Vosgues Chocolates - it was flavored with ginger and wasabi and black sesame seeds.

I checked out the Apple Store on Prince street.  Total mob scene.  But fun store.  -And the John Lennon Songwriting Bus was in town today too, so they had some aspiring songwriters hanging out.

Across the street from the Apple Store, was a Tumi store, so I decided to check that out too.  BK - Congrats on your purchase/investment!  It was actually sort of charming when the salesman showed me their new 3-in-1, and then looked at the price tag.  Only $695.  There was a glint of shock in his eye (too) since it was a new piece they just recently got in.  But it really was a nice piece of luggage.  The other sales clerk showed me some things from the more sporty line, and she was very honest with me -  that if you wanted your luggage to keep looking good over a period of time, their regular line was a better investment.  I appreciated her candor.

There was a great little toy store I stopped in, as well a shop with wonderful photos of rock 'n rollers from the 60s and 70s.  True art photographs.

After a while, I lost track of where I started and what I had just seen, so I started making my way west.  I walked through the NYU area, and through Washington Square Park - and the Arch.  Eventually, I hopped on the very-crowded - rush hour, ya' know - subway, and headed up to Times Square.

Once I worked my way through the tunnels, I surfaced at 40th Street and 8th Avenue, and headed over to the Clurman.  Penny was not there, but the lighting tech was.  I checked out the piano - and made some adjustments to it(!).  And then left.

I got back on the subway and headed back uptown to 66th Street.  I grabbed a quick bite to eat a Ollie's, and then headed across the street to Loew's to watch "Millions".

What a BEAUTIFUL movie!  Magical, whimsical, touching, funny and a little bit suspenseful too.  Danny Boyle's previous movies include "Trainspotting" and "28 Days Later".  Let's just say this movie is a true departure from those movies.  It's a kid's movie for adults.  I did cry, but not sob.  A very gentle cry.  I'm still smiling.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:23:45 PM
Just popped back on to say goodnight.  I had a killer of a closing this afternoon that lasted nearly four hours due to gross incompetence onthe part of an appraiser ...I'll spare you the boring details, but rather than leave work at 5 I left at 6:45 and then had to race home  to get the Vixter to her singing lesson on time, just to discover that the teacher had to cancel and had left the message on my home machine instead of calling my cell like she usually does

I was so exhausted from the day I just called for pizza delivery.  And now I am feeling much better and more cheerful.. I was apparently suffering from a pizza deficiency

I shall rant and rail no more against the beasts that torment me...

 at least until tomorrow because I am going to bed now



 
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:24:40 PM
But, before I go...

DR Ginny I hope your back feels better soon
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:25:28 PM
I wonder what DR Jose did tonight...he had several excellent offers as I recall... I look forward to reading his report in the morning
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:27:03 PM
I am very sorry that I will not be attending the book reading, it sounds like so much fun

I think there is a very small chance that WFO may attend, but it is a pretty small chance last I heard, depends on midterm exams as I understand it....
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:28:23 PM
What is the plan for Saturday night? Are we meeting before  the theatre,  or just seeing the show and then moving on to Angus?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 08:29:24 PM
DR TCB:  Yes, Paula was referencing Simon and said he couldn't stand one of the contestants.  This was at a time when they were paring down hopefuls after they'd performed in a group.

To the best of my recollection:

Randy and Paula had liked a contestant, Paula thought, and Simon hated him.  Paula accused Randy of changing his vote from yes to no based on Simon's detestation of a contestant and she was arguing with him when Simon told her not to talk behind his back.  That inference made Paula furious.

She later explained what was going on, but it was an ugly moment.  Randy, however, despite whatever he might have told Paula, would not change his vote and the contestant was excused.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:30:08 PM
And now for the links, in no particular order... Well, the order I've pulled out the various cards and flyers from my bag...

This is the shop with the great photographs, Morrison Hotel.
http://www.morrisonhotel.us

Kiehl's - Amazing skin and hair care products.
http://www.kiehls.com

Chickpea - Where I had lunch, a falafel sandwich with hot sauce and pickles!  -The addition of the pickles was pretty tasty!
http://www.chickpearestaurant.com

Balthazar - This is one of Martha Stewart's favorite places.  She featured it many times on her show.  It's also where I grabbed a donut.
http://www.balthazarny.com

This is the cool toy store, kidrobot.
http://www.kidrobot.com

Then Tumi
http://www.tumi.com

And the Apple Store for good measure.
http://www.apple.com/retail/
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:31:48 PM
Is there a certain standard of dress required at the aforementioned restaurant? Are neat jeans and sneakers acceptable (DH's favorite NYC walking wear) or is this a jacket and tie place, or somewher in between? Forgive my ignorance, I can't help it I was born and raised in Surburbia
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 14, 2005, 08:32:38 PM
Has anyone seen any of the new MGM musicals being released tomorrow?

Bells Are Ringing, Brigadoon, Easter Parade, Bandwagon all being released by Warner Bros along with Finian's Rainbow which was produced by WB.

I had an e-mail this morning from Amazon saying my box had shipped.  The projected arrival is tomorrow, but it's two-day delivery so it might be Wednesday.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 08:33:45 PM
I now, having frenzied, I leave...good night all!!!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 08:42:12 PM
Ben Alexander wasn't in the 1960s version of DRAGNET, was he? I thought Harry Morgan was Friday's man Friday.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 08:43:31 PM
I also got an e-mail today saying my Amazon box had shipped.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 08:45:43 PM
I thought DEADWOOD was quite wonderful though more than a might short of plot tonight. Of course, this was the conclusion of a two-part season premiere episode, so maybe there will be more plot in next week's episode. With such interesting folks all over the place, however, they could do character studies for 10 weeks, and I'd hardly notice.

And Timothy Olyphant is SUCH a pleasure to look at.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:46:31 PM
And here's the link to the "Millions" website:

http://www2.foxsearchlight.com/millions/
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 08:51:31 PM
As for actors and singers having their way with what what writers and songwriters have provided them with...

I'm sure many a lawsuit could be filed on all the obscene editing people do in order to make a song or monologue "work" for their audition.  My favorite is when someone has taken a dialogue scene and made it a monologue.  Even going as far as to inject lines like,  "Well, now I know you'd probably say...", or "Hey!?!?  I did not say that you said...."

And what's even worse about the whole scenario is that most of the time the actor/singer thinks they're pulling a fast one on the people behind the table.  Or they think they'll be given brownie points - and a callback - for being so clever and resourceful.

Author!  Author!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: MBarnum on March 14, 2005, 08:52:29 PM
I have no Amazon.com boxes shipping.

I do have some IndiaPlaza boxes shipping, however.

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 09:00:27 PM
Oh... and the young boy who stars in "Millions", Alex Etel, has to have the most expressive freckles I've ever seen!

;)

(http://www.thehollywoodnews.com/images2/millions5t.jpg)
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Cillaliz on March 14, 2005, 09:13:07 PM
I, too, got an email that my Amazon order shipped today. Must have been a big day for the shipping department. Hope they are all relaxing with an adult beverage about this time
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: TCB on March 14, 2005, 09:35:31 PM
Ben Alexander wasn't in the 1960s version of DRAGNET, was he? I thought Harry Morgan was Friday's man Friday.


Oh, I am sure you are right, MattH.  Ben Alexander just made a much better mental picture than Harry Morgan.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)




Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 09:36:11 PM
"Canada", Jose? I prefer Siberia.

I received today a great thing. A DVD purchase off of ebay of an unavailable film I have been trying to see again for ages, Lola Albright and Scott Marlowe in A COLD WIND IN AUGUST. A real indie masterpiece from 1960. Very sexual, with a really great, jaded performance by Albright, and Marlowe tapping into James Dean or early Brando territory as the 17-year-old innocent casually seduced by stripper Albright.

I was really craving the film after having found the Burton Wohl paperback on which it was based. Really a pulp novel that transcends its origins. The film loses a lot of the (unfilmable, really) motivation within Albright's character, but it is a wonderfully complementary version of the book.

I recommend either film or novel to anyone lucky enough to find them.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 09:37:39 PM
JRand-
Email received. Will be prepping and sending your Arch Hall and the Archers on the morrow.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 09:45:01 PM
Watched a few ROGER RAMJETS. They are only 5 minutes each. There are 120 of them on three discs. Subversive, funny li'l cartoon with some of the most laughably cheap animation ever. Roger's voice is Gary Owens.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: MBarnum on March 14, 2005, 09:50:30 PM

I received today a great thing. A DVD purchase off of ebay of an unavailable film I have been trying to see again for ages, Lola Albright and Scott Marlowe in A COLD WIND IN AUGUST. A real indie masterpiece from 1960. Very sexual, with a really great, jaded performance by Albright, and Marlowe tapping into James Dean or early Brando territory as the 17-year-old innocent casually seduced by stripper Albright.

I was really craving the film after having found the Burton Wohl paperback on which it was based. Really a pulp novel that transcends its origins. The film loses a lot of the (unfilmable, really) motivation within Albright's character, but it is a wonderfully complementary version of the book.

I recommend either film or novel to anyone lucky enough to find them.

Hmmm...I have never heard of this film, but anything with Scott Marlowe is bound to be entertaining! I think Scott Marlowe was one fine actor...and he should have gone a lot farther then he did. Although he was a busy actor, I don't think he was ever very well known.

A couple of my interviewees knew and worked with Scott Marlowe and had very nice things to say about him. I was quite surprised to learn that he was gay, however. I don't know why it surprised me, but it just did.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: MBarnum on March 14, 2005, 09:52:13 PM
Does anyone remember the HASHIMOTO cartoons? A little Japanese mouse and his Japanese mouse family...I loved 'em! TerryToons I think they were.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 09:52:24 PM
Also, a belated Christmas gift from my sister out West is a 3-film Buster Keaton collection from TCM. The films are THE CAMERAMAN, SPITE MARRIAGE and FREE AND EASY. Anyone know if any of these are first-rate?
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: MBarnum on March 14, 2005, 09:53:02 PM
For some reason ROGER RAMJET reminded me of them...same era I guess.

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 09:56:10 PM
I'm back from hearing two new tracks - I'll have lots to say about them in the notes.  

TACITURN!

I think there's a slim chance that my musicals box set might arrive tomorrow, but if not, it will definitely be on Wednesday.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: MBarnum on March 14, 2005, 09:56:17 PM
Rodzinski, I saw the CAMERAMAN recently at the theater here in Salem that often shows silent and classic movies. I enjoyed it and fell in love with Buster's leading lady in this film, the absolutely stunning Marceline Day.

Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: MBarnum on March 14, 2005, 09:57:55 PM
the musicals box set is one thing, but is anyone picking up MATANGO FUNGUS OF TERROR (a.k.a ATTACK OF THE MUSHROOM PEOPLE) on DVD tomorrow?

Surely, I am not the only one!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 09:59:39 PM
Hmmm...I have never heard of this film, but anything with Scott Marlowe is bound to be entertaining! I think Scott Marlowe was one fine actor...and he should have gone a lot farther then he did. Although he was a busy actor, I don't think he was ever very well known.

A couple of my interviewees knew and worked with Scott Marlowe and had very nice things to say about him. I was quite surprised to learn that he was gay, however. I don't know why it surprised me, but it just did.

Thanks for that info. I couldn't agree with you more about Marlowe's unrealized potential. That was the first thing that drew me to this film, flipping around the dial many years back. His performance is quite atypical and raw for its time.  Is he now deceased? I can't even find out if Albright is deceased. IMDB lists her as alive. I found a message board where someone was seeking her and was told she is dead.

Incidentally, let me know if you want an Arch Hall + Archers "Wild Guitar" cd yourself.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 10:03:42 PM
Hashimotos rings a bell, but I can't picture it. I'll look it up.

Mushroom People freaked me out as a youngster back when Chicago's Son of Svengoolie showed it on channel 32.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 10:06:13 PM
And that's what you call Raul Julia in page "9".

We haven't hit double digits since the Oscar hullaballoo.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 14, 2005, 10:06:49 PM
Well, I'm a bit pooped out right now.  All the walking, and, now that I think of it, not that much eating today.  Today I actually had things that were NOT made out flour, butter, sugar and eggs!  I had vegetables and chicken!  Ooohh!  Aaahhh!

Tech is tomorrow night, but I'm gonna venture southward for a bit beforehand.  Of primary importance is buying black socks.  For some strange and unknown reason, I only packed two pairs of black socks with me.  And since I'll be in black for the show...  Macy's here I come.  Or probably just Old Navy - who really looks that closely at socks anyway?  Well...Oh, nevermind...

I also may get my hair trimmed and neated up.  We shall see...  Until then...

Goodnight.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 10:14:17 PM
Not an image of Hashimoto that I could even find.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Rodzinski on March 14, 2005, 10:24:18 PM
THE BEAGLES are one of the great lost cartoons. They were two British invasion dogs who sang like a rocking Peter and Gordon. Supposedly, the masters of this show were destroyed, but I'll tell you what. If you find the BANANA SPLITS CD that is out, the entire output of Beagles tunes is on there and they blow the Splits away. Just excellent little two-minute pop tunes.

And with that, I am tired of looking at my mug on here. So I am exiting, stage left.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 10:29:34 PM
Yes, I spoke of Marceline Day and her beauty when I spoke about The Cameraman.  

I didn't think Matango was out for a few weeks.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 10:30:08 PM
And vixmom, be sure to put unseemly pressure on WFO - after all, he's already missed one signing.  
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 11:21:40 PM
A lull.  Has everyone become TACITURN?  It's the ATTACK OF THE WUSSBURGERS.  Here I sit, slaving over a hot notes, and everyone has gone the way of all flesh.  

Has Ann caught up?  Is she playing tiddly-winks with Jed.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ann on March 14, 2005, 11:24:01 PM
I have caught up.  I'm afraid I am also catching a cold.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 11:31:48 PM
I wish someone would play tiddly-winks with me.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 11:32:12 PM
Ann is heading towards 1000 postings.
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 11:32:25 PM
TACITURN!
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: Ann on March 14, 2005, 11:37:50 PM
I'm heading towards 1000 postings?  Wow, hadn't even noticed.


I'm not sure I've ever played tiddlywinks...
Title: Re:THE FLOOR MEN
Post by: bk on March 14, 2005, 11:52:05 PM
Ann is inching ever closer to her new plateau.

Someone, somewhere, must want to play tiddly-winks.