Haines His Way

Archives => Archive 1 => Topic started by: bk on March 08, 2004, 12:01:25 AM

Title: THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 12:01:25 AM: Well, you've read the notes, you've divined the true meaning of the notes, therefore you simply must post until the cows come home.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 12:09:29 AM: Here is Mr. Pogue's late-night post re Dragonheart, which I reprint here since it addresses things in my comments on the film. I will only add that I am glad to hear that he thought the girl was terrible. I tried to be nice, but she stinks to high hell in the film. On the documentary, she praises Mr. Director, so there you are. Here are Mr. Pogue's comments:

Bk, I just couldn't bear to listen to the commentary so I never have...for the very reason you state. The director from the first day of pre-production started taking credit for everything. Forget that both the producer and I and the original director spent four years of our life on it before he ever came aboard. If you listen to him, you'd think he taught the actors how to act, fed the crew, built the sets, designed everything, took the tickets at the box-office. He is a vicious, venal, vile, virtuperative little blowhard of a human being (and I use the word "human Being" in its minimal, basest biological sense), IMHO, who if he couldn't take credit for everyone else's talent would try to diminish it. Not an ounce of poetry in his soul and a thoroughly nasty piece of work. I have never seen a cast and crew so united in their antipathy for a director before. But he is merely a man who cannot rise above his mediocrity.

The producer who actually had knew what she had is really at fault. She abandoned her passion and power to capitulate to the director's petty ego and descend to his mediocrity. She told me once in Bratislava at dinner, "Rob pisses around on your script because he is jealous of your talent and he is afraid of you." Which was true, but when I asked her very sensibly then why did she allow him to piss around on the script (at one time she told him, he'd "butchered" it), she said: "It's the process." One needs a producer who knows the difference between collaboration and compromise and keep firm in the fray and not become the Queen of Capitulation.

The worst cast member...almost despised as much as the director was the actress playing the girl...so many of her scenes (and more important, Dennis' good scenes) got cut because of her performance. Dennis was a hard-working trouper and a consummate professional. Can't say enough good about him. Pete Posthlethwaite, Jason Isaacs, and David Thewlis were all great, but hampered by such bad direction. The funniest breakfast I've ever had was with Pete and David bitching about the director. Thewlis said, "I feel like I'm shouting all the time." Pete's comment about the director was: :"Just figure out where to put the camera, mate, and let us do the thinking."

I have avoided the commentary because I knew it would be a pack of lies. The reason there is only ten seconds of me is because they were desperately trying to muzzle me. I wasn't even going to be included until I raised a stink to the WGA. They filmed an hour's interview with me of which you get just that one clip.

Worst things about the movie are all the nuances are gone, the connective tissue, emotional subtlety, and what one critic called "the plough-horse direction". No poetry of soul, no delicacy. Oh, and, of course, the pigs scene. This was an inspiration of the director's he thought it would be funny if a village of starving peasants was full of pigs, despite the fact that once the villagers think the dragon is dead they rush it saying "Meat, Meat, Meat." We all told him it made no sense, but he's the type of person that rather than admit he's wrong would entrench more adamantly into his position. He thought we were trying to make him look stupid, we kept saying: "No we're trying to make you look smart!" One astute reviewer noticed this glaring inconsistency of idiocy. I write about what went wrong with this and other things in my forward of the published screenplay (which has no pigs in it). But this idiotic gap of logic that everone let slide rather than force the director to get rid of it tells the tale of DRAGONHEART. Let's knowingly do something that's wrong rather than put of with the aggravation of reining in a childish, egomaniacal direction.

One last story. One day the producer was commenting on how much she like the storyboard artist's work. The director, full of umbrage, immediately piped up: "But I told her what to draw!"

Ugh! Bad Karma! Oh, now you made me dredge all this shit up again. I need an acid reducer.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 12:14:06 AM: Hello seven GUESTS.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: S. Woody White on March 08, 2004, 12:19:14 AM: Re: Fantasy Stories:

Has anyone out there heard of the books written by Edward Eager? Titles: Half Magic, Knight's Castle, Magic By the Lake, The Time Garden, and three others.

I've always wondered why they were never adapted to any other medium. (That the central characters in Knight's Castle and The Time Garden were the children of the now-adult leads from Half Magic/Magic By the Lake was always a bit of fun.)
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Tomovoz on March 08, 2004, 12:26:40 AM: The works of Clive Barker would be my favourite fantasy books - horror and eroticism in there too.
Of course this another chance to mention the wonderful "Lord Of The Rings" too.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 12:32:20 AM: BK, I think I finished off last night's message board with a long rant about my woes on DRAGONHEART (not nearly long enough...I kept a journal during the filming that is nearly 400,000 words long. Someday maybe it will see the light of day. Certainly a useful document of how a writer is treated and all the more strange since it was a writer of a much-lauded script.)

For those who didn't read last night's final post or for those who did and might have their appetites whetted, below is an address for an internet site, Hour25online, where I talk for about two hours on my entire career and, in depth on Dragonheart, detailing the pig story. Should the link not work, just go to Hour25online and it the previous interviews link and look up April 18 and April 30, 2001 which are the dates for my two-part interview. I think the Dragonheart stuff is in the second half.

The link:

www.hour25online.com/Hour25_Previous_Shows_2001-4.html#chuck-pogue_2001-04-18

Favourite fantasy films would be:

Korda's THIEF OF BAGHDAD (1939)
5,000 FINGERS OF DR. T
DER NIEBELUNGEN (Fritz Lang- silent...Both parts)
THE BISHOP'S WIFE
IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE
CAT PEOPLE (Val Lewton's version)
7th VOYAGE OF SINBAD
GOLDEN VOYAGE OF SINBAD
JASON & THE ARGONAUTS
PORTRAIT OF JENNIE
THE UNINVITED
BLACK SUNDAY

Favourite Fantasy Books:

SHE by Rider Haggard
THE PRINCESS BRIDE by William Goldman
THE WORLD'S DESIRE by Rider Haggard
THE RETURN OF TARZAN by Edgar Rice Burroughs
Terry Pratchett's Discworld Novels

Favourite Fantasy Scripts:

My original script for DRAGONHEART
My original script for PRINCESS OF MARS

Favourite fantasy short story:

JEFTY IS FIVE by Harlan Ellison
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 12:52:51 AM: Actually, Bruce, the actress and the director did not get along at all. I found her self-absorbed and rather shallow from the moment she tried to get the production to pay for her luggage she bought before coming to Bratislava, but I felt the director did not help nurture her, IMHO, neglible talents with what I considered bullying tactics and denigration. And HE chose her, after all, turning down Joley Richardson who we could have had. I'll tell you tales privately sometime that I really can't relate in a public forum. The whole love relationship,as you can see was jettisoned because of the director's inability to get a satisfactory performance from her in those scenes. One of which was Dennis' most heartrending, touching moment. What a trouper he was!

I also felt that some of the dragon's wistfulness and sadness was lost because of misdirection. A shame when you have an actor as good as Connery. But I told you what Thewlis said. The director could not find a subtle moment if it were riding on a float in the Rose Parade.

Oh, and I may have inverted the Producer's quote, it may have been "Rob pisses around on the script because he is jealous of you and afraid of your talent. " I don't remember exactly without looking it up. Go to the site, go to the site! Read the forward in my script. Oh, God, I'm so tired of re-telling all this crap. and it just makes me want to heave. I will tell you, I have not watch the film all the way through since it's premiere. Can't bear to look at it. All I see is what's wrong and what should have been. It just breaks my heart. It went from being what the Head of Universal called the best script that the studio had to this just so-so film.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: elmore3003 on March 08, 2004, 04:04:55 AM: Good morning, all! I enjoyed chat immensely, BK was his usual sparkling host, and it got quite lively.

Today's topic is fantasy, and I know I'm going to omit something I truly love, but let's see what I can dredge up:

FILMS:
DRAGONSLAYER
DARBY O'GILL AND THE LITTLE PEOPLE
THE THIEF OF BAGHDAD (Korda/Sabu)
THE THIEF OF BAGHDAD (Fairbanks silent)
ALICE IN WONDERLAND (Charlotte Henry/WC Fields/Edna Mae Oliver)
THE LORD OF THE RINGS (all zillion hours of all 3 films)
ON BORROWED TIME
7th VOYAGE OF SINBAD
THE UNINVITED (I'll steal from DR Charles Pogue here, although I prefer to consider it a ghost story/horror film, but it's one of my alltime faves)
A MIDSUMMER NIGHT'S DREAM (Mickey Rooney/James Cagney)
LI'L ABNER (politics, Dogpatch and Julie Newmar!)

BOOKS
TUCK EVERLASTING
THE UNINVITED
TIME AND AGAIN
ALICE IN WONDERLAND/THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS
THE WIND IN THE WILLOWS
BRIAR ROSE (Jane Yolen)
BLACK THORN, WHITE ROSE and all the other contemporary fairy tale collections edited by Teri Windling and Ellen Datlow
ANY OF THE CURRENT BOOKS ON GEORGE W BUSH (this is not a political announcement, but an assessment)

DRs Pogue, Panni, and BK, do any of you know the fantastic children's book WHAT HAPPENED IN HAMELIN? by Gloria Skurzynski? It's a dark retelling of the Pied Piper and I'm amazed it hasn't been made into a film or tv movie. I feel the same about Jane Yolen's BRIAR ROSE.

DR Charles Pogue, I have yet to see all of DRAGONHEART. I took my goddaughter to see it when it was first released. I figured since she walked around the apartment as a tyrannosaurus, she'd love the dragon. Well, the film terrified her (she was six) and we left after 30 minutes or so. I'm sorry.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jrand73 on March 08, 2004, 05:00:56 AM: What an interesting story from DRCharles Pogue. Fascinating and heartbreaking. Thanks for sharing it with us civilians!

Lovely chat last night - lots of stuff flying by! ;D

Hmmmmmmmmmm fantasy films....hmmmmm:

The Wizard of Oz
5,000 Fingers of Dr T
Heaven Can Wait (original)
The Undead
Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves
Lost Horizon
The Red Shoes (I think it's a fantasy, I think)
...to begin with!

Adventure & fantasy books:

Dandelion Wine
Tarzan - MOST of them
When Worlds Collide
Lost Horizon

I will wait for some more choices from the DR's here at HHW!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: William E. Lurie on March 08, 2004, 05:57:23 AM: My favorite fantasy book is "The Joy of Gay Sex".
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Kerry on March 08, 2004, 06:29:52 AM: Fanatasy? Isn't everything a fantasy?

My favorite fantasy films: Top Hat, Swing Time, Hollywoood Canteen, Stage Door Canteen, Lost Horizon, ANY Andy Hardy movie
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ben on March 08, 2004, 06:55:43 AM: Just finished listening to Donald's latest show. If you haven't yet, get over there and listen. It's wonderful. Rebecca Spencer is a funny, intelligent and talented performer. Donald, again, you did a great job with this interview.

Also, I didn't mention it a few weeks ago when our own Noel was on, but these are the kind of interviews I love to hear. Thanks, Donald for taking the time to interview and promote people like Noel and Rebecca.

You are a "shimmering, glowing star in the radio firmament" (almost a Singin' in the Rain reference w/a slight change).
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: MBarnum on March 08, 2004, 07:27:13 AM: Favorite fantasy films:

Wizard of Oz
Aaya Toofan
Jack the Giant Killer
The Undead

Hmmm...that is all I can think of just now.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Matt H. on March 08, 2004, 07:34:13 AM: Favorite fantasy film always and forever - THE WIZARD OF OZ

Love the books, too (at least the 14 Baum wrote, but I've never read any of the others).

And I'm currently wallowing in utter joy with WICKED. I'm about 3/4 of the way through it and relishing every page.

Next favorite - PETER PAN (book and Disney film; I have not seen the latest movie incarnation)

On film I am also a HUGE fan of THE SEVEN FACES OF DR. LAO.

And needless to say, the LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy and the first two HARRY POTTER films.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 08, 2004, 07:46:09 AM: TOD:

Films:
Something Wicked This Way Comes
Harry Potter
Lord of the Rings
Edward Scissorhands
Nightmare Before Christmas
Bell, Book and Candle
Bedknobs and Broomsticks
Around the World in Eighty Days
Blithe Spirit
The Ghost and Mrs. Muir
Brigadoon
Harvey
King Kong (Original)
Sleepy Hollow
Ghost (1990)
Ghostbusters
Wizard of Oz
Mary Poppins
Meet Joe Black
Sixth Sense
Time Machine (Original)
ET
Back to the Future
(The last three on the Fantasy/Science Fiction cusp)

Books:
Harry Potter
Princess Bride
Princess of Mars, et al.
Last Gondolier
Almost every Fairy Tale Collection (pick a color!)
Magic Inc.
Various and Sundried Collections of Short Stories (Simack, Bloch, Lovecraft - special favorite: W.W.Jacob's "The Monkey's Paw")

der Brucer (whose escapist reading as a youngster was concentrated in mysteries and Science Fiction - Heinlein Rules!)
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 08:14:13 AM: Pogue: I reprinted your post here, didn't you see it? It's post number two, which occurs after post number one, or before post number three, however you look at it.

Remember those days when the East Coast Hainsies/Kimlets would all complain because I would usually put up the notes between eight and nine? Now, they go up at midnight my time, and yet, lately there are never people here in the morning when I log on. Should I go back to putting them up in the morning?
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jane on March 08, 2004, 08:40:03 AM: I can't stay. Keith has to clear this laptop and return it to the store. If we are lucky he will find a new laptop he likes, or get a loaner while our computer is in the shop, and I will return tonight.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 08, 2004, 08:42:08 AM: A tale of joy:

Working people frequently ask retired people what they do to make their days interesting. Thought you'd might like to see what happened to me last week.

I went to the store the other day. I was only in there for about 5 minutes. When I came out there was a city cop writing out a parking ticket. I went up to him and said, "Come on, buddy, how about giving a senior a break?"

He ignored me and continued writing the ticket. I called him a Nazi. He glared at me and started writing another ticket for having worn tires. So I called him a piece of horse dung. He finished the second ticket and put it on the windshield with the first. Then he started writing a third ticket.

This went on for about 20 minutes.. the more I abused him, the more tickets he wrote. I didn't give a crap. My car was parked around the corner.

I try to have a little fun each day, it's important at my age.

der plagerizing-from-anon Brucer
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: William F. Orr on March 08, 2004, 08:43:20 AM: Quote from: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 12:32:20 AM
BK, I think I finished off last night's message board with a long rant about my woes on DRAGONHEART (not nearly long enough...I kept a journal during the filming that is nearly 400,000 words long. Someday maybe it will see the light of day. Certainly a useful document of how a writer is treated and all the more strange since it was a writer of a much-lauded script.)

Well, Mr. Charles Pogue, I would suggest turning it into a screenplay, as I think a film about the unmaking of your screenplay might have great possibilities. Not as bloody as the story of Jesus, perhaps, but a real horror story to be sure. And think of the libel suits! You can't buy that kind of publicity, as some wag once said.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 08, 2004, 08:48:00 AM: Quote from: bk on March 08, 2004, 08:14:13 AM
Pogue: I reprinted your post here, didn't you see it? It's post number two, which occurs after post number one, or before post number three, however you look at it.

Well the way I look at it is:

It is post number 10, which occurs after post number 1, or before post number 11.

BINARY RULES!

der anti-hexadecimal Brucer
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jrand73 on March 08, 2004, 08:51:11 AM: I like having the New Notes when I get up at 5 a.m.!

What a funny story DRderB....well not funny for some stranger!

And of course DRMattH and DB have reminded me of LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy - the movies and BLITHE SPIRIT....I loaned my video of that movie and it never came back...one of those...."oh, I gave it back to you...I know I did...." Hmmmmmmmm.....what can you say except, "No you didn't, you liar..." ....except nothing.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: elmore3003 on March 08, 2004, 08:52:49 AM: Dahlink BK, I like getting up early and reading the new column. If you post it at midnight, PST, it's 3 am here. I'm usually online by 7:00 am and there are usually 2 or 3 ahead of me. I often don't post, if I do, until later, but I'd hate to wait until noon EST for your latest whimsy! Of course, at 7 am, I'm not thinking clearly (don't say a word): how could I have forgotten such great films as KING KONG and MARY POPPINS?

I was going to post favorite fantasy musicals as well but I forgot:
BABES IN TOYLAND
STEPPING STONES (Red Riding Hood)
BRIGADOON (hate the film!)
FLAHOOLEY
THE ARCADIANS
CAROUSEL
THE APPLE TREE
DEAR WORLD
A CONNECTICUT YANKEE
I MARRIED AN ANGEL
FINIAN'S RAINBOW
OUT OF THIS WORLD
ROCKY HORROR SHOW
CANDIDE (a stretch, but people killed in one scene return later)

And what do we consider Julie Andrews' great CINDERELLA?
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 08:53:17 AM: Good morning. Would FREDDY THE PIG count as a fantasy book? Do pigs talk? No. Then it is and I shall name all the Freddy books my favorite fantasy books. I also like dark fairy tales - the REAL ones, not the pc versions. And THE LION, THE WITCH AND THE WARDROBE.
Movies - I'll have to think about that -- many that I like have already been mentioned. I'm not a huge fan of "big' fantasy films. Prefer THE GHOST AND MRS MUIR"... that kind of thing.

As for adventure movies and books... I've always liked Tarzan. Even got to write a Tarzan movie for television which had some decent moments, but I rarely include on my resume. (Tony Curtis played Archie, Jane's father, and he was a hoot. On purpose.) There are others, to which I'll get back later.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Noel on March 08, 2004, 09:04:09 AM: Quote from: elmore3003 on March 08, 2004, 08:52:49 AM
MARY POPPINS
CAROUSEL
THE APPLE TREE
A CONNECTICUT YANKEE
I MARRIED AN ANGEL
FINIAN'S RAINBOW

As I've explained before, fantasy's not my genre, but I'll agree with elmore's choices above.

I hope everybody - especially Charles Pogue - has seen the back page of the recent New Yorker in which Steve Martin reveals the studio's script notes on The Passion of Christ. 8)
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Matt H. on March 08, 2004, 09:26:03 AM: Certainly CINDERELLA is a wonderful fantasy as is ALICE IN WONDERLAND. Whether done by DIsney or R&H in the case of the former, they are wonderful entertainments. In my own little world, the ones I mentioned might rank a "smidge" higher, but that's not to say those are great, wonderful, joyous fantasies.

And I was delighted to read the Julie original TV version of CINDERELLA might be coming to DVD this year. How wonderful though, of course, it was the Lesley Ann Warren version that I grew up with. Each has its strong points (such as Stuart Damon's stalwart prince with the extra song cut from SOUTH PACIFIC and which I just love in the Warren version).
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 08, 2004, 09:33:44 AM: Good Afternoon!

I'm back home in Richmond. Whew! More choppy skies this morning. UGH! Going to take a nap in a little bit. :)

Topic of the Day:

Books:
C.S. Lewis - Chronicles of Narnia series
Madeleine L'Engle - Wrinkle in Time series
-Both of these series were great reads as a young adult, and are still great reads as an "old" adult.

Movies:
The only one that comes to my mind is Like Water for Chocolate. -And the book is wonderful too.

I'll most likely post more after my very well-deserved, and very much-needed snooze...

See you in my dreams. ;)
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 08, 2004, 09:49:52 AM: Favorite Fantasy Films:

Lord of the Rings trilogy
Field of Dreams
A Matter of Time (aka Stairway to Heaven)
Wizard of Oz
Here Comes Mr. Jordan
..and many others already mentioned...
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 09:52:48 AM: The film JUDAS, about which I posted an article last week, has been getting terrible reviews, I'm afraid. I'll tape it and check it out for myself.

FS Pogue - How's your rewrite going?
Mine is supposed to go in to the network today. We'll see. I have a bet going as to whether I get one more call from the producers, who read it over the weekend, for "just a few little changes before it goes in." (I've already rewritten the rewrite three times.)
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 08, 2004, 09:55:34 AM: Quote from: JoseSPiano on March 08, 2004, 09:33:44 AM
Movies:
The only one that comes to my mind is Like Water for Chocolate. -And the book is wonderful too.

I'm surprised you didn't pick "Willy Wonka"!
Of course "Como agua para chocolate" is filled with sex, cooking, eating; more sex cooking and eating, embelished with additional sex, cooking and eating - and all in Spanish - so I see the attraction!

der Brucer

PS This "charming" R-rated culinary fantasy has the following IMDB Keywords:

food
texas
vomit
wedding
1910s
1930s
adultery
based-on-novel
cooking
ghost
love
narration
1890s
self-immolation
suicide
supernatural
female-frontal-nudity
female-nudity
shower-scene
dying-during-sex
heart-attack
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 08, 2004, 09:58:11 AM: I’d like to add “The Secret Garden” to my list of fantasy favorites, unfortunately my only exposure to same was the Broadway show.

The subject of Secret Garden was brought up by the household chef who remarked that Rebecca Luker (a member of BK’s ~~stable~~ group of favorite people with whom to record) has a new album coming out (“Leaving Home”) in which she does a duet (“Wick”) with Alison Frasier, also of TSG fame.

Note: In “The Secret Garden”, Luker played “Lucy” and Fraser played “Martha”, the song sung here, “Wick”, was sung in the show by John Cameron Mitchell in his pre-op days.

Note, also, the TSS stars SWWs favorite (I really saw his bare ass on stage!) school chum, Robert Westenberg.

Der Brucer (who has ordered a copy of “Leaving Home” direct from the publisher so SWW can be the first kid on the block to own one)
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ben on March 08, 2004, 10:13:08 AM: Besides Donald's excellent interview with Rebecca Spencer on our own Radio Show there is another good interview with Kander and Ebb on BBC Radio 3 Stage and Screen. It's up today through next Monday.

Here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/stagescreen.shtml?focuswin

Regarding the posting of notes. I certainly enjoy seeing them up early, but since I'm at work when I see them for the first time, I don't always have the opportunity to respond right away. If it's easier for you, BK, to post them the next morning at around 9am your time, that's fine with me. We East Coasters will just continue posting to the previous days/nights notes.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 10:21:46 AM: William F. Orr...I've always spoken about my dealings fairly frankly and have never worried about libel or slander, for one simple reason...I always tell the truth or state my opinion as my opinion (You may have noticed in last night's post all the IMHO's, "I found", "I felt", "I thought"...). I'm always on safe ground because I always have the facts to back me up and they know it. And I also realize that some may view certain things in a different light, so I make sure it is my opinion being expressed in qualitative areas where a definitive proof or truth can't be arrived at.

Frankly, this whole dispute on DRAGONHEART, played out very big in the local LA Times and various genre film magazines at the time. Neither the producer nor the director got in it too deep with me, because they knew that everything I was saying was true and they also knew that I could go much deeper, if I had too...I tried to keep everything about the work, but if they had wanted to play dirty, I knew where all the bodies were buried. In fact, at one time a labour rep at Universal called the WGA with claims from the producer of something about me that just wasn't true at all...Fortunately, I had a huge paper trail of faxes that disputed her intention and gave them to the guild. She was caught in her lie. The labour rep came back and said I could say anything I wanted to about the film. But I also know they were spreading some pretty vicious calumny in other quarters ( I got it from the exec on the film who told me outright and remains a friend and both I and my press agent were told outright by the Universal PR people: "Don't tell us anything you're doing, because we have orders to squash it.") I had the foresight to hire my own PR people...which I recommend any writer do...from about two/three months in advance of the film's opening through to two/three months after its release. I won the PR wars, which was a rather pyhrric victory...since the film was diminished. My battle in the press was what got me elected to the Board as a champion of writer's rights.

But everybody I respect and want to work with in this town shares exactly the same opinion of the director that I do. I remember having lunch with a very prominent writer/director/novelist who told me "I hate Rob Cohen and love telling people I hate Rob Cohen." If you watch the commentary that BK did you can see this man's overweening ego.

Unfortunately, petulant, insecure loathsome and self-loathing people thrive in this business all the time and like all petualnt, insecure loathsome and self-loathing people their self-hatred and insecurity manifests itself as bullying. They can only make their own light shine brighter by trying to dim the light of others.

Another of my favourite fantasy writers is Thomas Burnett Swan, writer of such books as THE DAY OF THE MINOTAUR, QUEENS WALK IN DUST, HOW THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN, WHERE IS THE BIRD OF FIRE, all very poetic, gentle mythological fantasy...usually centering around dying falls...Here's the opening to one of his books:

" 'And you will wed your uncle, the priest of Melkart, as befits a princess of Tyre.'

"The words of her brother the king, inscribed on papyrus-thin ivory, screeched in her ears like a cry of marauding Harpies. She, fifteen-year old Dido, to marry a plump, middle-aged man with a shaved head who collected babies for the belly of Baal and reeked in his shapeless robes of smoke and blood!"

Great writer...
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 08, 2004, 10:25:26 AM: Hypocracy, anyone?

An AP story (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113563,00.html) reports:
Monday, March 08, 2004

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court refused Monday to hear an appeal from the Boy Scouts over what the organization claims is discrimination because of its policy against hiring gays.
…
The Scouts asked the justices to hear a case from Connecticut, where officials dropped the group from a list of charities that receive donations through a state employee payroll deduction plan.

That's unconstitutional discrimination, the Boy Scouts argued.

"To exclude the Boy Scouts from a forum based on their values they hold and the conduct they require of their members is to exclude Boy Scouts based on viewpoint and identity," lawyers for the Scouts argued in their Supreme Court appeal.

Now let me get this straight (pun intended)!

The Boy Scouts can ban atheists because of their viewpoint, and homosexuals because of their identity and presumed conduct; but society can not apply the same criteria to the Scouting organization itself.

der Brucer (assured that the lawyers made this case with a straight face)
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 10:32:34 AM: I, like Pogue, spoke out when Paramount was purposely killing Nudie Musical. I was right, they were wrong. Unfortunately, with that case, no one really cared. Paramount was Paramount and I was nobody. Still, even though it got me blacklisted for two years at ABC (the Laverne and Shirley connection - a show co-produced by Paramount and ABC) I probably wouldn't do it differently, even though I've said I would. These people don't have the right to get away with the crap they get away with. It's why I started this site - to combat the bs and lies that were being spread by certain people and guess what? It worked perfectly. The major sites came here, contacted me, and the truth made its way around the Internet.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Dan (the Man) on March 08, 2004, 10:44:12 AM: Quote from: DERBRUCER on March 08, 2004, 09:58:11 AM
I’d like to add “The Secret Garden” to my list of fantasy favorites, unfortunately my only exposure to same was the Broadway show.

While I wouldn't catagorize it as a fantasy film, I would recommend that you check out the MGM version of The Secret Garden starring Margaret O'Brien. It's shown occaisionally on Turner Classic Movies.

I've been having a couple of hectic and stressful days here. Everytime I thought I had found some time to sit down and post, something came along to pull me away. So here is a belated Happy Birthday to DR Panni, some
[move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%]~~~~ G**D L*CK V*B*S!!! ~~~~[/move]
for her daughter R*ch*l (buy the gal a vowel!), and some
[move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%]~~~~ GET-WELL, GABE ~~~~[/move]
vibes to JMK's son. And if there's anyone I missed:
[move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%]~~~~ VIBES FOR THE HELL OF IT ~~~~[/move]

I'll have to give the favorite fantasy movie/book/etc some more thought. I'll hopefully get back on here later to post about those.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 10:47:56 AM: The other reason I could speak out with such impunity was that everything I said about the film was being echoed by all the major critics. Everything I had been predicting for six months was exactly what cropped up in the reviews. In fact, about a month before the film premiered, just because I was hearing no buzz about it, I confronted the Executive about it, "this thing is not going to perform up to expectations, is it?" He admitted that that was the truth. He also admitted to me (and he considers DRAGONHEART is greatest failure) that even if the director had been reined in and shot the script exactly as written, he doubted that he could have found all the nuance and poetry in it, which is probably true.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 10:55:33 AM: It's quite clear from the documentary that what Mr. Director was really interested in was the musculuture of the dragon. It's all he talks about. We seem a tape he made for the fx people where he demonstrates the musculuture. We see his endless daily phone hookup to Italy or somewhre, where he's "directing" the people at ILM. It's never about the story or the performances, just the dragon. The film he was directing while doing the phone hookup? Daylight, which, according to him, was going to be huge. Cohen and Stallone. Oops.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 11:05:25 AM: ...Just got a call from one of the producers. He's ready to send the draft to the network. Now it the other two agree...
But it won't be until tomorrow. The suspense! (And for those who don't know what thehell I'm talking about, read the earlier posts...)
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 11:08:24 AM: Quote from: William E. Lurie on March 08, 2004, 05:57:23 AM
My favorite fantasy book is "The Joy of Gay Sex".

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jrand73 on March 08, 2004, 11:14:12 AM: Rise above it, DRPanni.... Have a cookie!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jenny on March 08, 2004, 11:36:24 AM: I'm so upset! I just read that "Assassins" is delaying previews til March 31, and I have tickets for March 26th! It's no problem for me to see it on another date, but...still. Actually, DRs DerBrucer, SWoodyWhite, and Maya also have tickets for that evening! This is very upsetting. :'(
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jenny on March 08, 2004, 11:39:02 AM: On the flip side, I am pleased because I can access HHW from school! Sondheim.com has been blocked on the school computers ever since I was caught reading a thread entitled "Is Bobby gay?" during math class. >:( I'm happy to see that HHW can distract me not only from chemistry homework, but from chemistry class too!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 11:40:56 AM: haineshisway.com should be required reading in every high school.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jrand73 on March 08, 2004, 11:43:24 AM: It's Turkey Lurkey Time!

Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle bells!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 11:46:02 AM: Hell, I just realized I'm tottering on the brink of divinity. This is post 500, kiddies!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: George on March 08, 2004, 11:46:15 AM: Quote from: William E. Lurie on March 08, 2004, 05:57:23 AM
My favorite fantasy book is "The Joy of Gay Sex".

Sadly, it's mine too. ::) (I know, I know...TMI!)

Actually, "The Sword of Shannara" was one of my favorite books when I was in high school.

As for movies:
"Harry Potter and the first two movies"
"The Lord of the Rings Trilogy"
"The Princess Bride'
"Something Wicked This Way Comes"
"Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory"
"The Wizard of Oz"
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: George on March 08, 2004, 11:46:42 AM: Only 1 more DR CP!!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 11:47:04 AM: And this is post 501...Ahhh! Ah, yess! I am imbued with the light!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 11:48:38 AM: EXQUISITE LIGHT!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jrand73 on March 08, 2004, 11:49:51 AM: [font="courier new"]Welcome to[/font]
New HHW GOD
CHARLES POGUE!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: George on March 08, 2004, 11:50:38 AM: [move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%]WELCOME TO THE HEAVENS[/move]

[move=right,scroll,6,transparent,100%]DEAR READER AND NEWEST HHW GOD[/move]

[move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%]CHARLES POGUE!!![/move]
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ben on March 08, 2004, 11:57:49 AM: Welcome DR Charles Pogue to our Heavenly place.

I don't remember who mentioned it this morning on page 1 but if you haven't seen The Back Page of the current issue of the New Yorker magazine, try and find it. Studio Script Notes on The Passion, written by Steve Martin is HYSTERICAL (IMHO). There is a drawing of Jesus on Hollywood Boulevard putting his hands into cement . There is a bit about superpowers that had me laughing out loud! I don't know if there is a link to it on-line (I doubt it) but try and find it. I think you'll laugh a lot.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jay on March 08, 2004, 11:59:07 AM: Ain't polytheism swell?
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jrand73 on March 08, 2004, 12:01:03 PM: Is that like melmac, DRJay?
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 12:05:45 PM: ...EXQUISITE LIGHT...Well, Mr. BK, I got the reference! I'm touched! Touched! I tell you!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 12:11:46 PM: Actually, BK, your "exquisite light" reference (which is the same in novel and script) brings to mind another bit that Cohen screwed up. That horrendous voice-over by Gilbert the Priest at the end of the movie was written and tacked on by Cohen.

My script (as in the novel) was bookend by a voice-over (not a voice-over in novel, of course) of Gilbert saying: "This is a tale of a knight who slew a dragon and vanquished evil." This was repeated at the end of the movie during the "exquisite light" moment (I had envisioned the screen going to white) and you now understood exactly what the phrase meant. Little touches. Little subtle touches. All lost.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jrand73 on March 08, 2004, 12:14:21 PM: Well...I am off to rehearsal...the Artistic Director/Light Designer is coming in to see Act One tonight. I told him it ran 69 minutes and he thought that was a big long....but he is in for a BIG suprise because it has been running consistently at 72 minutes!

Pray for Rose Marie's baby. A Dick Van Dyke reference!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jrand73 on March 08, 2004, 12:16:04 PM: I remembered your admonition in the second act, HHW GOD CHARLES POGUE....there is some sadness in the second act but NO SELF PITY!!!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: MBarnum on March 08, 2004, 12:19:05 PM: Forgot a few fantasy films, you may add to my list the following:

MARCH OF THE WOODEN SOLDIERS
MIRACLE ON 34TH STREET
and any number of the Italian Hercules films of the 50s/60s...especially those with monsters and dragons!

Couldn't think of any fantasy books that are favorites. I have read some good sci-fi books, but the closest I could come to fantasy books would be some of the Raggedy Ann and Andy books.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: MBarnum on March 08, 2004, 12:19:32 PM: ...and welcome new God DR Charles Pogue!!!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 12:21:28 PM: Jrand, what play is it that you are doing?
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 12:26:28 PM: Well, I have read the Martin parody on studio notes for THE PASSION. It's very funny. And very scary! Because it's closer to the truth than you know. I think I've had these executives.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 08, 2004, 12:28:19 PM: Quote from: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 12:26:28 PM
I think I've had these executives.

That's "almost" a "Woman of the Year" reference.

(just trying to lighten things up).

R
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ben on March 08, 2004, 12:32:05 PM: According to AP and Yahoo:

Hollywood Screen Beauty Frances Dee Dies
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 12:35:54 PM: I saw Frances Dee at a Preston Sturges retrospective a few years back. She was still stunningly beautiful at 80-something.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ben on March 08, 2004, 12:40:55 PM: The article I saw had very little info other than to say she died in Connecticut and her son confirmed her death.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: TCB on March 08, 2004, 12:41:35 PM: I realize that today is not Ask Anyone Day, however, if anyone can answer a question for me, I would be much obliged:

At Amazon.com, on the listing for the film CAMELOT, under the cast of characters it lists, of course, Franco Nero as Lancelot du Loc, but it also lists Gene Merlino as Lancelot du Loc. Is that the singing voice for Mr. Nero? Now if he was the body double of Franco Nero, I might be interested in finding out more about this Mr. Merlino, but if it is just his voice, then to heck with him..
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 08, 2004, 12:46:51 PM: Good afternoon!

-And did anyone catch Frank Rich's op-ed(?) piece on The Passion of Christ - well, more aptly, on Mel Gibson, in yesterday's New York Times. Quite the read.

DR DERBRUCER - That list of keywords for Like Water... is interesting. I'm surprised "full frontal male nudity" was not listed - although, it's a very brief moment in the film - but, hey, it's Marco Leonardi from Cinema Paradiso fame. :)

Well, I got my errrands done - bank, Barnes & Noble (Kevin Burrows and Chris Sieber on the cover of this week's "Advocate" :D), and Target. Now I can nap... I hope...
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jennifer on March 08, 2004, 12:47:28 PM: Welcome to our newest God DR Charles Pogue.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 08, 2004, 12:53:39 PM: Yes, TCB -- Mr. Merlino was ONLY the singing voice for Lancelot.

Vocal Director Ken Darby was thrilled to have found the voice they needed to match Nero's speaking voice...and felt it was particularly ominous that the man's name was "Merlino".

The body was strictly Franco Nero's...including the camera-rape shot during the opening of "C'est Moi"!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: TCB on March 08, 2004, 01:15:47 PM: Quote from: RLP on March 08, 2004, 12:53:39 PM

The body was strictly Franco Nero's...including the camera-rape shot during the opening of "C'est Moi"!

Hmmm, I guess I will have to revisit that part of the film, because I don't remember that. However, the scene where Guinevere comes to Lancelot's bed during the IF EVER I WOULD LEAVE YOU montage, is probably my favorite scene in the movie.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Matt H. on March 08, 2004, 01:17:09 PM: And I found the singing voice of Mr. Merlino only mediocre. I guess no one could compare to the hypermasculine sound that Robert Goulet projected when he did Lancelot.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Matt H. on March 08, 2004, 01:19:04 PM: Imagine my surprise when a friend picked me up for lunch today, and as we were driving away, I noticed that a huge oak tree had toppled last night in the big wind storm and smashed in the entire side of the apartment complex behind me. No wonder I lost power for awhile.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: elmore3003 on March 08, 2004, 01:27:01 PM: The body was strictly Franco Nero's...including the camera-rape shot during the opening of "C'est Moi"!

Well, that's Josh Logan for you! He probably was frustrated by the limited number of ways to expose more of Lancelot
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ben on March 08, 2004, 01:54:42 PM: Sad news regarding Spalding Gray

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/84806.html
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 08, 2004, 01:56:29 PM: Quote from: Matt H. on March 08, 2004, 01:17:09 PM
And I found the singing voice of Mr. Merlino only mediocre. I guess no one could compare to the hypermasculine sound that Robert Goulet projected when he did Lancelot.

Mediocre?

Yes, Goulet has/had a hypermasculine sound...but...blech! I'd rather Lancelot be a lot more passionate than was in Goulet's vocal range. He always sounds "in love with his own voice" to me.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 08, 2004, 01:59:50 PM: Geez, Ben....you're spreading all kinds of cheeriness today!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Matt H. on March 08, 2004, 02:03:06 PM: Quote from: RLP on March 08, 2004, 01:56:29 PM
Mediocre?

Yes, Goulet has/had a hypermasculine sound...but...blech! I'd rather Lancelot be a lot more passionate than was in Goulet's vocal range. He always sounds "in love with his own voice" to me.

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more strongly. I found the Lancelot vocals blander than white bread in the film of CAMELOT. GOulet's vocals on the OCR are to me definitive.

I never saw Goulet in CAMELOT (as Lancelot or more recently as Arthur), but I saw him in THE HAPPY TIME in NYC and in a tour of SOUTH PACIFIC, and I'm telling you that he had what all the great stage matinee idols had: gorgeous looks, a huge voice, and a mesmerizing charisma on the stage that was literally overpowering. Both times I saw him, when he was revealed to the audience, there were gasps all over the theater. He did honestly take your breath away.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 02:11:12 PM: Quote from: Ben on March 08, 2004, 01:54:42 PM
Sad news regarding Spalding Gray

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/84806.html

How sad. Too bad his depression got the worse of him. I understand when you hit bottom, but he must have gone beyond to have killed himself. I feel for his family who will have to live with the aftermath.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 02:12:15 PM: Fantasy Films:

7 Faces of Dr, Lao
Wizard of Oz
Lord of the Rings Trilogy
Many of the Ray Harryhausen films
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 02:13:33 PM: I have been listening to the Charles Pogue interviews. So far I am in the middle of the first part. Fascinating. He speaks very well and has a lot to say
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 02:28:31 PM: WELCOME TO THE CLOUDS, FS POGUE. NO REWRITES HERE!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 02:30:50 PM: Very sad about Spalding Gray. But, reading the article, it sounds like he really, truly wanted to end it. So for him it was perhaps the best thing. Who knows? My heart goes out to his young family.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 08, 2004, 02:52:22 PM: Re: Robert Goulet -- Nope! He doesn't do a thing for me.

:D
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: JMK on March 08, 2004, 03:01:28 PM: We saw the orthopedic surgeon today and the good news is, Gabe's bones seem to be perfectly aligned. The bad news is, the doc wants us to leave him in the plaster cast for another week (at least) before transferring him to the fiberglass cast, which he will need to wear for another several weeks. Since they have the plaster cast wrapped in an ace bandage, none of us (or his little school buddies) will be able to sign it.

And, though I may be accused of channeling Steve Martin in "The Jerk," may I just say THE NEW PERCY FAITHS ARE HERE, THE NEW PERCY FAITHS ARE HERE, including several LPs I've been waiting YEARS for--Held Over!, his last album of movie songs, and Music for Her, one of his most sublime outings from the 50s.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 03:15:11 PM: I've always liked Mr. Goulet. I, too, saw him in The Happy Time and he was terrific - charming, funny, and sang beautifully. He was a horrid King Arthur, though, and now he seems to just be a caricature of himself.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 08, 2004, 03:29:48 PM: Actually, it's the "now" Goulet I'm reacting to.

I like to trade japes with DR Mr. MatHough every once in a while.

I liked Mr. Merlino's voice in "Camelot" (the movie) very much. It was a good match for Franco Nero. Goulet's voice would not have been a good match for Franco Nero.

Had a Goulet "type" been cast as Lancelot, Mr. Gene Merlino's voice would not have been a good match.

Since we do have Mr. Nero's filmed Lancelot, the notion that the singing voice that perfectly matches his speaking voice is nothing more than "mediocre" strikes me as being harsh.

I actually do like Goulet's voice on the Broadway cast album, but I also do feel he sometimes seems "in love with his own voice." I WAS initially shocked by the difference in voices when I saw the movie, but Nero's intensely masculine, but quite gentle Lancelot won me over completely.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 03:50:08 PM: I come down on the side of pro-Goulet. I'll always love him, if for nothing else, for DAYDREAMER. But I also like his voice on CAMELOT & THE HAPPY TIME...I particularly like Walking Among My Yesterdays. It's always surprised me as to why he wasn't a bigger star, But in film he usually did come off rather stiff. Didn't he have drinking problem at one time?

But he did have star quality. I remember once seeing a photo of him, Burton, and Andrews from Camelot and I turned to my lovely wife and said, "Look at this picture and tell what is similarly striking about these three people. It's one of the reasons why all three became stars." She saw it immediately. They all had striking eyes. You were drawn to their eyes.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 03:54:50 PM: I never much care for the entire cast of the movie CAMELOT. Harris doing his shout/whisper modulating style of acting. Nero pretty but empty...and dubbed. And I always go hot or cold on Redgrave. I seem to either love her or hate her...there's rarely any in between (even on stage, where I've seen her three or four times)...and I've never found her particularly sexy. Camelot was a cold one for me.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 04:00:23 PM: Yes, Mr. Goulet's drinking problems were many, and said problems were part of the cause of his divorce from Carol Lawrence.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 04:01:48 PM: I loved the stage version of CAMELOT when I was a teenager. Saw it in NY - Goulet was still Lance, but Burton and Andrews were gone. His voice ringing out in a theatre was beyond thrilling. "If Ever I Would Leave You" - WOW!!!
I was incredibly moved by the whole thing. Couldn't stop crying when the houselights came up at the end. Very embarrassing. Particularly for my mother. She took mne to the Latin Quarter to cheer me up with the nude dancers. My mother had a bit of Hungarian Auntie Mame in her.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 04:17:10 PM: You were never a teenager.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 04:20:23 PM: Quote from: bk on March 08, 2004, 04:17:10 PM
You were never a teenager.
True.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 08, 2004, 04:30:50 PM: Josh Logan RUINED "Camelot"...just as he ruined "South Pacific."

Harris might have been a great Arthur...but the blue eye shadow? And being too cutesy in "I Wonder What the King is Doing Tonight?" He worked way too many affectations into his performance. A strong "film" director would have steered him away from that!

Redgrave was luminous most of the way through her Guinevere. So radiant and exquisitely beautiful. Too bad she couldn't sing.

Ken Darby has written that he had to do take after take after take just to get enough "bits" to splice together something usable.

The film had so much potential. It really makes me crazy to consider why in hell Jack Warner -- who was so priggish about "My Fair Lady" -- would have turned "Camelot" over to Logan. Cukor would have been perfect for it. So would Minnelli. Neither was doing much of anything at the time, either.

The sets and costumes are magnificent, and Alfred Newman's scoring is phenomenal.

Favorite moments: The first look at Guinevere; the last verse/chorus of "Take Me to the Fair" as a tipsy Guinevere cavorts on tabletops with three knights as Lancelot watches; the scene where Lancelot brings the dead knight back to life; Guinevere in her bedchamber pondering the smoking/glowing tip of a stick that had been used to light a candle; Lancelot's meltdown as he confesses to Dap that he cannot get Guinevere out of his mind; the Flemish tapestry quality of the scene in "If Ever I Would Leave You" as Guinevere appears at Lancelot's door in a diaphanous gown; the entire "Investiture" sequence; and the "Take Me To the Fair" number, especially the wild dance that ends in looks of betrayal and treachery as both Arthur and Guinevere realize their love is dead; and the plaintive sweetness of Guinevere singing "I Loved You Once in Silence."

Not surprisingly, these are among the best-scored sequences in the movie, too.

The overall film is a totally mixed bag. I can't really disagree with anything anyone has said (except that Merlino's voice is only "mediocre" -- sorry, Matty).
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 04:38:13 PM: Soon I will be supping at Chan Dara. Can anyone suggest Atikins or South Beach friendly thai food? I know I can have the chicken on skewers appetizer with the peanut sauce, but what else Thai doesn't have rice or noodles?
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 08, 2004, 04:44:13 PM: Why not go for one of the Satays...pork, beef or chicken...with spinach...but ask the waiter to forego the rice.

They may have a nice fresh spring roll to tantalize your tastebuds, as well.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: S. Woody White on March 08, 2004, 04:51:59 PM: Quote from: DERBRUCER on March 08, 2004, 09:58:11 AM
...Der Brucer (who has ordered a copy of “Leaving Home” direct from the publisher so SWW can be the first kid on the block to own one)
Don't be so sure, considering the population of our block, and of Rehoboth Beach in general. ;D
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 04:59:24 PM: They used to do a nice B-B-Q chicken...or was that the now-non-existent Chao Praya? Which Chan Dara are you supping at? Cahuenga or Larchmont (right next to vet)?
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: S. Woody White on March 08, 2004, 05:04:34 PM: Greetings to
DR Charles Pogue, who has
[move=up,scroll,6,transparent,100%][size=20]
ASCENDED!
[/size][/move]
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 05:12:10 PM: If you're concerned about sugar - ask. I think they use quite a bit in some of their sauces
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: S. Woody White on March 08, 2004, 05:15:10 PM: The casting of Lancelot is all wrong. According to T. H. White's book, The Once and Future King, upon which the musical was based, Lancelot was a physically ugly man. Part of the progression in the story is how Guenivere is initially repelled by his appearance, which leads her to ridiculing the man, but then discovers that she loves the man for who his is.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: S. Woody White on March 08, 2004, 05:20:13 PM: Which brings us back to the TOD:

BOOKS:
The Harry Potter series.
The Once and Future King and The Book of Merlin, by T. H. White.

TELEVISION:
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
The Prisoner.

FILM:
The Nightmare Before Christmas
Who Framed Roger Rabbit
Yellow Submarine
Shreck
Sixth Sense
Unbreakable
What Dreams May Come
The Birds
Little Shop of Horrors (musical version)

STAGE:
Sunday in the Park with George
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: William F. Orr on March 08, 2004, 06:01:39 PM: I have not yet listened to the interview with our Great God Pogue--that will have to wait until tomorrow morning where I have broad-band at work. But since his recent apotheosis (one of my favorite words), I thought it fitting to post the accompanying Graven Image. All I can say is, lucky lovely wife Julianne.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 06:01:45 PM: IF we end up at Chan Dara it will be Larchmont. They're now talking about maybe going somewhere in the nabe because of the heat, so we may end up at Louise's.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: elmore3003 on March 08, 2004, 06:05:57 PM: It's 9:00 EST, and TNT is showing the LAW & ORDER episode where Judy Blazer plays the angry wife who runs over her husband several times.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 06:13:18 PM: And I am off to the movies to see THE BARBARIAN INVASIONS (winner for Best Foreign Film - let's hear it for Canada!). Haven't been to a movie in an actual theatre in a while, so I'm looking forward to it.
I just read the Steve Martin Passion piece in the New Yorker. Like FS Pogue, I've worked with some of those execs. (eg MISS ROSE WHITE - "Couldn't the Shabbat prayers be in English? Most of the audience won't be able to follow otherwise.")
In the same issue (last week's) there is also a very favorable review by John Lahr of the new FIDDLER with a wonderful photo of Harnick, Stein and Bock by Richard Avedon.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: William F. Orr on March 08, 2004, 06:23:22 PM: I am watching the beginning of Judas, and the most striking thing about it so far is all these brunette disciples walking about with a very Nordic-looking Jesus. Beautiful smile, deep blue eyes, and I keep worrying that that very fair skin is going to sunburn badly in the Gallilean sun. It brings me to mind of the television series The Adventures of Sinbad, starring the world's only Icelandic Arab.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Danise on March 08, 2004, 06:24:19 PM: Evening all! Just checking in. II'm having a hard time with my e-mail account downloading. It is slowing down my whole system.

Jane--I discovered an e-mail from you that I didn't know you sent as well as the new one. I will answer tomorrow when everything is back to normal. I have to shut down the net and let the rest of the messages download before it will clear.

Good night all!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 08, 2004, 06:33:47 PM: Quote from: William F. Orr on March 08, 2004, 06:01:39 PM
All I can say is, lucky lovely wife Julianne.

Geez, Bill....drool much?
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: William F. Orr on March 08, 2004, 06:36:31 PM: Oh, my mistake. Jesus doesn't have blue eyes. They are emerald green.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: JoseSPiano on March 08, 2004, 06:38:10 PM: Good Evening!

Well, I had planned to take a nap, and nap I did! And I have a feeling I'll actually be going to bed in a little bit. -I still have a slight headache which could still be a result of the turbulent flights and/or the lack of sleep the past 36 hours. Ah, well...

I meant to mention that while I was waiting in the Chattanooga airport, I had a very nice chat with Mr. Christopher Durang. He was one of the Keynote Speakers at the convention (along with Mimi Kennedy), and he, too, was waiting for the airport to re-open. Unfortunately, I was kind of reticent while chatting with him, and kept it more or less to small talk - I really wanted to gush and gush, but I held back. However, he's very nice, and we did talk about some mutual friends and acquaintances we have. I guess I was a little star-struck. -Has anyone else caught his "act": "Christopher Durang and Dawn"? VERY funny. He hasn't done it in a while, but he did say he'd like to bring it back again sometime.

BK - There is a lot of Thai food that is very Atkins and/or South Beach friendly - if you stick to the appetizers and soups you should be safe. Otherwise, as others have mentioned, just keep the rice on the side. *I'm very partial to the dried beef and green papaya salads (which also have Vietnamese variations).
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Noel on March 08, 2004, 07:22:08 PM: Quote from: bk on March 08, 2004, 04:38:13 PM
Soon I will be supping at Chan Dara. Can anyone suggest Atikins or South Beach friendly thai food? I know I can have the chicken on skewers appetizer with the peanut sauce, but what else Thai doesn't have rice or noodles?

The peanut sauce is surprisingly high in carbohydrates.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jed on March 08, 2004, 07:36:53 PM: Mmmm... now I want various and sundried veggies, meat, and rice or noodles in peanut sauce!!!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Kerry on March 08, 2004, 07:38:41 PM: One of my favorite moments in the movie version of CAMELOT is in the close-up of Richard Harris lying on the forest floor singing "How to Handle A Woman" with a Band-Aid on his neck. It'e VERY obvious on the big screen ----not as much on the small screen. It's on his left side for anyone interested. How many milllions did they spend to make that, and they couldn't cover up a Band-Aid?!!?!??!?! Merlin must have been some magician!!!!!!!

I like all the cod pieces tooo! :o
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Matt H. on March 08, 2004, 08:10:39 PM: DR RLP wrote: "Since we do have Mr. Nero's filmed Lancelot, the notion that the singing voice that perfectly matches his speaking voice is nothing more than "mediocre" strikes me as being harsh."

I'd hardly call it harsh. My honest opinion is actually what it was. I think his (Merlino's) singing is as pedestrian as can be, and combined with Miss Redgrave's ill-equipped-to-handle-the-songs vocals, CAMELOT was a tremendous disappointment for me.

Notice I said, for me. If the movie hadn't cost so much, it would have made a profit, for it did reasonably well at the box-office. (And I did like Richard Harris' Arthur, for me the best thing about the movie.)
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: td on March 08, 2004, 08:11:22 PM: Quote from: Kerry on March 08, 2004, 07:38:41 PM

I like all the cod pieces tooo! :o

Those are pieces? ! ? ! What are they, fish ? ! ? !?

I thought they were are BUILT that way, anatomically speaking, of course.

DR Orr - - you do realize that JUDAS (the tv movie, not the person) sat on ABC'S shelf for two years or more? ? ?
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: td on March 08, 2004, 08:12:36 PM: Where do they sell used camels?

CAMELOT!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 08:13:56 PM: Just got back from seeing Mary Cleere Haran. My review

The beautifully attired Mary Cleere Haran swept onto the stage of the elegant Crest Theater in Delray Beach, Florida in April as part of its Broadway Cabaret series produced by Mark Keller. Haran’s evening of songs taken mainly from her cd. “This Heart of Mine: The Classic Movie Songs of the Forties”. Watching Mary Cleere Haran in concert convincingly proves that she is one the perhaps the preeminent performer of classic American songbooks of the 20’s, 30’s and 40’s. The beautiful arrangements and her immaculate diction make it sound as if you are hearing the lyrics of Johnny Mercer and Johnny Burke for the first time. The excellent musicality of Musical Director Donald Rebic on piano and Chip Jackson on bass have their moments as Ms Haran allows them to shine in solo spots. Highlights of her set include a tribute to Betty Hutton with "Poppa, Don't Preach to Me" and several songs from the Crosby-Hope Road pictures were a delight.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 08:14:27 PM: Quote from: td on March 08, 2004, 08:12:36 PM
Where do they sell used camels?

CAMELOT!

And used Lances?
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 08:15:18 PM: I forgot to post my review of Backstage Bosom Buddies that I saw two weekends ago.

The bubbly bright “Backstage Broadway Buddies” of Liz Callaway and Jason Graae recently performed at the Kravitz Center backed by Alex Rybeck on piano. The opening material specially created for this engagement amusingly took songs with “Buddy” in them like “Bosom Buddies”, “In Buddy’s Eyes” and managed to cram humorously in the lyrics “Backstage Broadway Buddies”. After the opening song, Jason Graae commanded the stage for over an hour with a mixture of his “An Evening of Self Indulgence” and new material. After a brief intermission Liz Callaway took the stage among the highlights are many of her signature songs, “Meadowlark”, “Memory” and “The Story Goes On” Even after twenty years no one has every matched Callaway emotional telling of Maltby’s lyrics. Graae returns to the stage and performs the rest of show with Callaway. They have excellent chemistry and they really seem to enjoy working together. Someone should write a show for these two excellent and underused musical performers.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 08:19:14 PM: I got called for Jury duty tomorrow, but when I called in this evening as directed I have been put on standby and told to do what I normally do and then call in between 10:30 and 11:30. But they also said I could be on stand by for a week!!

I really wanted to go and say that I hate everyone and that I don't believe in the death penalty. (Florida has it) but now I will never know what it was like. I was looking forward to living on $15.00 a days and holding a person's fate in my hands.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Matt H. on March 08, 2004, 08:19:51 PM: Harris' blue eye shadow is ever so much more visible in the made-for HBO taping of his stage version of CAMELOT, but I'll admit I haven't watched CAMELOT in some time.

I certainly do agree with DR RLP that ALfred Newman's work is simply sterling for the movie and justifiably won an Oscar. If ONLY they had had wonderful singers to do that music justice.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 08:20:49 PM: I really liked the interviews with Mr. Pogue. I recommend anyone who wants to write or is a writer to listen to it
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 08:41:17 PM: What interviews with Mr. Pogue?

We ended up going to Louise's, so I had their yummilicious chicken caesar salad, and I ate the damned croutons, so there. Can one of you dear readers e-mail me or PM me the address of that place where you search to see if you're owed money? My cousin wants to see if he's owed money.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 08:41:54 PM: tomorrow out on DVD................The Raquel Welch Collection, 10 Commandments SE
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 08:42:31 PM: Quote from: bk on March 08, 2004, 08:41:17 PM
What interviews with Mr. Pogue?

We ended up going to Louise's, so I had their yummilicious chicken caesar salad, and I ate the damned croutons, so there. Can one of you dear readers e-mail me or PM me the address of that place where you search to see if you're owed money? My cousin wants to see if he's owed money.

The radio interviews from 25th Hour from 1991
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Jay on March 08, 2004, 08:46:14 PM: Each state has its own, but here's the unclaimed property site for the State of California.

http://www.sco.ca.gov/col/ucp/index.shtml (http://www.sco.ca.gov/col/ucp/index.shtml)
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: td on March 08, 2004, 08:46:29 PM: Quote from: Michael Shayne on March 08, 2004, 08:41:54 PM
tomorrow out on DVD................The Raquel Welch Collection, 10 Commandments SE

SCHINDLER'S LIST. . .of which I am watching the two docus on right now.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 08:50:32 PM: Quote from: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 12:32:20 AM
BK, I think I finished off last night's message board with a long rant about my woes on DRAGONHEART (not nearly long enough...I kept a journal during the filming that is nearly 400,000 words long. Someday maybe it will see the light of day. Certainly a useful document of how a writer is treated and all the more strange since it was a writer of a much-lauded script.)

For those who didn't read last night's final post or for those who did and might have their appetites whetted, below is an address for an internet site, Hour25online, where I talk for about two hours on my entire career and, in depth on Dragonheart, detailing the pig story. Should the link not work, just go to Hour25online and it the previous interviews link and look up April 18 and April 30, 2001 which are the dates for my two-part interview. I think the Dragonheart stuff is in the second half.

The link:

www.hour25online.com/Hour25_Previous_Shows_2001-4.html#chuck-pogue_2001-04-18
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Matt H. on March 08, 2004, 08:51:40 PM: I am not planning to purchase THE TEN COMMANDMENTS again no matter what extra stuff they put on it. The last DVD transfer looked just fine to me and it was anamorphic.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2004, 08:53:48 PM: I just heard from a reliable source that One Million Years BC is missing 10 minutes from the DVD release!!!!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 08:57:09 PM: The Ten Commandments uses the exact same transfer as the old DVD. No difference at all.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Matt H. on March 08, 2004, 08:58:20 PM: The 10 missing minutes are what was included in the European release. What Fox has released is the original US cut.

When they did the laserdisc, they put the 10 minutes back in, but obviously have left it out on this DVD release.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 08, 2004, 09:05:09 PM: Quote from: Michael Shayne on March 08, 2004, 08:53:48 PM
I just heard from a reliable source that One Million Years BC is missing 10 minutes from the DVD release!!!!

Hey, 10 minutes out of one million years is a nit!
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: DERBRUCER on March 08, 2004, 09:09:50 PM: Quote from: Panni on March 08, 2004, 02:28:31 PM
WELCOME TO THE CLOUDS, FS POGUE. NO REWRITES HERE!

Yes, congratulations! And I'm the baby God no more.

der Brucer (quietly muttering "There goes the neighborhood")
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 08, 2004, 09:14:30 PM: Thanks , Mr. Shayne for the kind words. Actually the interview was done not in 1991, but 2001.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: bk on March 08, 2004, 09:20:37 PM: What's ten years between friends. Hey, Pogue, should I run your HHW interview over at The DVD Place? That might be fun, since the DVD came out this week.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: George on March 08, 2004, 09:40:02 PM: Quote from: Michael Shayne on March 08, 2004, 08:41:54 PM
tomorrow out on DVD................The Raquel Welch Collection, 10 Commandments SE

I just got back from Costco. When I was there I saw and picked up Futurama Volume 3! I didn't know it had been released yet! I was so happy until I started looking at the packaging. The plastic shrink-wrap was torn in a couple places, but still sealed. I looked around for another copy but couldn't find any. Did I get the last one and they're all sold out? I couldn't even find the place where they should have been. Anyway, I went to the check-out counter and when they swiped it through, the register displayed that it couldn't be sold! "WHAT?" thought I! I have it here in my hand. The official "release date" is not until tomorrow! Tuesday. I had to say goodbye to my very own copy of volume 3 of Futurama. I was sad :'(...but happy that tomorrow I will be able to get a very nice copy with no ripped plastic. ;D
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: JMK on March 08, 2004, 09:41:21 PM: Has anyone noticed the dolly shot in the first scene between Arthur and Guinevere when the camera evidently backs over a cord or something--it jerks quite noticeably and rights itself. I couldn't believe they didn't retake that moment.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 08, 2004, 09:44:32 PM: Quote from: Matt H. on March 08, 2004, 08:10:39 PM
DR RLP wrote: "Since we do have Mr. Nero's filmed Lancelot, the notion that the singing voice that perfectly matches his speaking voice is nothing more than "mediocre" strikes me as being harsh."

I'd hardly call it harsh. My honest opinion is actually what it was. I think his (Merlino's) singing is as pedestrian as can be, and combined with Miss Redgrave's ill-equipped-to-handle-the-songs vocals, CAMELOT was a tremendous disappointment for me.

Now you're just being mean.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 10:16:47 PM: Back from THE BARBARIAN INVASIONS. A wonderful mixture of emotion and intellect. Smart, libidinous people (most of them over 50) talking about actual ideas and having feelings at the same time. What a novel concept! I'd see it again tomorrow.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: S. Woody White on March 08, 2004, 10:23:54 PM: Quote from: Michael Shayne on March 08, 2004, 08:41:54 PM
tomorrow out on DVD................The Raquel Welch Collection, 10 Commandments SE
And on what parts of Raquel did they chistle those commandments?
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Ann on March 08, 2004, 11:07:13 PM: Don't have much to say, but I wanted to post at least once today.
Hey, that was a bad rhyme...
okay, goodnight everyone
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: DearReaderLaura on March 08, 2004, 11:39:01 PM: Hello, fellow dear readers:
I don't know that I have a particular favorite fantasy story. I remember I loved reading Wizard of Oz when I was a kid. And I love Peter Pan the musical.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 11:52:13 PM: I'm still here! No wuss, I.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 08, 2004, 11:54:14 PM: Hello, Tomovoz. Let's see.. It's almost 7 PM in Australia, right? And Labour Day.
Title: Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
Post by: Panni on March 09, 2004, 12:00:08 AM: No one is speaking... The silence... We need subtitles.