Haines His Way

Archives => Archive 1 => Topic started by: bk on March 24, 2004, 12:00:54 AM

Title: SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 12:00:54 AM
Well, you've read the notes, you've danced around the notes, you've made the notes your own, and now it's time to post until the cows come home.  To it, I say.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 12:04:04 AM
And a very happy birthday to Angela.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: S. Woody White on March 24, 2004, 12:29:17 AM
All right, I've got a question.

What the dingiddy-dang does "Shuffle/Ball/Change" refer to?  Yes, I've read the notes, and I even tried looking it up on-line, but this time, BK, you've got me stumped!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: S. Woody White on March 24, 2004, 12:35:27 AM
Stop The Presses!  STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!
[size=20]Danise is now a Goddess!!!!![/size]
[move=up,scroll,6,transparent,100%]
[size=10]Welcome to Godhood, Danise!!![/size]
[/move]
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Tomovoz on March 24, 2004, 12:42:35 AM
Congratulations Danise. For a celebration why don't you go and see Michael Ball in concert.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: George on March 24, 2004, 02:15:12 AM
Welcome to the Newest HHW Goddess Danise!!

And speaking of Michael Ball,

(http://www.michaelball.co.uk/images/donmar17.jpg)

I was reshuffling my bookmarks not too long ago and found that I had bookmarked his website[/i] (http://www.michaelball.co.uk/) a long time ago.  Just thought I'd share!  (I hope the picture's not too big.)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Michael on March 24, 2004, 04:22:43 AM
Some questions about Anastais Affaire originally released on Bay Cities.

1) What were your memories about recording The Annastsia Affaire?
2) Why were only two pianos used?
3) What do you think of Wright and Forrrest as "original" composer versus their "based on themes" works?
4) In the photo below: Is Albin Knopka (One of the pianist and the musical director) the gentleman of the far left or far right? And who is the other person.

(http://www.brucekimmel.com/images/anasastiaaffairerecording.jpg)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Michael on March 24, 2004, 04:33:27 AM
All right, I've got a question.

What the dingiddy-dang does "Shuffle/Ball/Change" refer to?  Yes, I've read the notes, and I even tried looking it up on-line, but this time, BK, you've got me stumped!

It is a choreography term. It references to tap dancing. Basically a time step

Go here for some more explainations

http://www.tappies.com/video_index.html (http://www.tappies.com/video_index.html)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Michael on March 24, 2004, 04:34:49 AM
 and of course to ANGELA

(http://www.kernvalley.com/cards/birthday.jpg)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Ben on March 24, 2004, 04:41:27 AM
Happy Birthday Angela.

And now I will Shuffle Off to Buffalo (a 42nd Street Reference, a tap dance reference, an upstate NY reference, take your pick)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: William E. Lurie on March 24, 2004, 06:18:25 AM
Is a shuffle-ball-change anything like a pahdaybooray?

For Ask BK---
You had once stated (I think these were the figures) that BENJAMIN KRITZER was about 75% autobiographical and 25% fiction and that KRITZERLAND was 90% autobiographical and 10% fiction.  What are the figures for KRITZER TIME?

For Ask DRs (or BK)---
Most television shows today (and many movies) have a multitude of producer credits - Producer, Executive Producer, Co-Producer, Line Producer, Associate Producer et. al.  Are there specific meanings for each type of producer or are these credits negotiated along with the contracts and have different meanings on each show or what?  Why are so many producers needed in the first place and what does each of them do?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 24, 2004, 07:29:16 AM
MY BK question:  Who did the taps on Guy Haines' recroding of BE A SANTA and how were they done?

American Idol:  Simon just doesn't get country and never has.  Who should go...Carmen who should have been in the bottom three the last time or poor John, the red-head.  As much as I've rooted for him...he just isn't coming through and he has the personality of a dead fish.  Even when he's asked a question by Seacrest...he pauses interminably for an answer and comes up with something dull and bland.  His performance last night would be nice if he were in a high school variety show.  I think he still may have another week or two before he goes though, because he seems to have a following and Simon has been inordinately kind to him.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Matt H. on March 24, 2004, 07:51:01 AM
Charles, I think you mean Camile rather than Carmen. There is no Carmen in the competition this year (and last year's Carmen lasted FAR longer than she should have, just like this year's model, but her name is Camile).

This whole slam against the performers singing "safe" songs doesn't really have any validity. If you've ever stood in front of a live audience with three judges in front of you ready to tear you to shreds, cameras encircling you with lights going on and off and knowing that 25-30 million people are watching behind the lenses of those cameras and then tried to sing a ballad in soft tones which betray every ounce of nerves and where a crack in the voice would be more easily heard, there's nothing SAFE about that.

And frankly, I don't want the performers eating the audience with every performance. SOmetimes, quiet, controlled, honest singing is preferable and definitely a varient from the usual hysterical vocals so many singers do.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jennifer on March 24, 2004, 07:58:33 AM
RE: Last night's American Idol

I actually enjoyed the performances more than the rest of you here seemed to like them.

I was very surprised that Jasmine, who everyone said was best last week, did not do well (the judges really turned on her).

I think the bottom three will be Matt, Camille and Jennifer.  And I really don't care who goes between Matt and Camille (I do really like Jennifer Hudson though).

As for what Fantasia said when Simon criticized her, I get what Matt was saying.  I also like to see contestants act maturely and accept criticism.  But in this case, I wasn't bothered by what Fantasia did.  I agree, she should have just accepted what Simon said.  But I thought she was just being funny (since as she walked off, Simon said he loved her, and she said she loved him back).  Although she did seem upset after.

Most of these songs did not sound country at all to me.  But I guess the rules are simply that the song must be country, not that the singers have to sing it that way.

I thought Fantasia was very good, as was Diana (who is a little bit too young and cute for me).

I still love JPL. But he wasn't great last night.

I also love, love, love John S.  I can't help it, I love the way his voice sounds.  And I truly hope his large fan-base will give him time to mature in this competition.

LaToya is very good, but I didn't like the song she chose or how she sang it.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Matt H. on March 24, 2004, 07:58:43 AM
BTW, shuffle/ball change is a tap dancing term, but it's not a time step. That's a somewhat different animal. (From someone with over 12 years of tap class experience).

For Ask BK Day: I'd like some thoughts about working with actor/singer Michael Rupert. I saw him first in THE HAPPY TIME and thought he was just wonderful, so sincere and winning with a wonderful voice, and I couldn't have been happier when he won that Tony for SWEET CHARITY. His surprise and genuine delight was exhilarating. I only wish I had seen him in PIPPIN. I'm sure he sang those terrific songs much better than original lead John Rubenstein or TV lead William Katt. And I missed him in CITY OF ANGELS since I saw the original cast. He's been on some of your CDs, and I'd just like some thoughts about working with him.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 08:00:34 AM
Some questions about Anastais Affaire originally released on Bay Cities.

1) What were your memories about recording The Annastsia Affaire?
2) Why were only two pianos used?
3) What do you think of Wright and Forrrest as "original" composer versus their "based on themes" works?
4) In the photo below: Is Albin Knopka (One of the pianist and the musical director) the gentleman of the far left or far right? And who is the other person.


It was a LONG time ago, back in 1991 or 92.  It was the first original show recording I produced.  It was fun - difficult, but fun, and even then I was ornery when the sound wasn't to my liking and the engineer (whoever it was) and I had many words about it (it was a "live" to two track recording, which I could not remix).  I learned from that experience, and when I did my other two-piano show recordings the pianos became a character, which they're not on The Anastasia Affaire.

Two pianos were used because it made the recording financially possible, and they wanted this chamber version to be able to be performed by amateur and stock companies.

I prefer Wright and Forrest's original music to their pastiche scores.  They've written some very nice things, and they were wonderful gentlemen.

Mr. Knopka is on the far left.  On the far right is our very own Mr. Nick Redman.  Somewhere nearby is the other pianist, the zany Mr. Seth Rudetsky.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 08:05:02 AM
Mr. Pogue: The tapping on 99% of the CDs I produced that have tapping is done by the great Niki Harris.  Niki works with the musical director and me when we're arranging (routining) the song, and she has input into the dance music.  She then "choreographs" the number for the ear.  We record the track (and even the vocals sometimes), she comes in and she lays down the taps as an overdub.  She taps on a plank of wood called a tap board.  If she's tapping for two people (as she is on Be a Santa), she taps in character for each on a separate track.  If she's tapping for an entire chorus, we usually do four or five tracks of her.  In the mix, we pan the taps to make sure each "person" is in their own space.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 08:11:51 AM
I just posted about producers and got that disgusting "website not responding" thing, which is an AOL glitch and has nothing to do with this website.  But, you lose the post.

Executive Producers and Associate Producers are usually negotiated credits and are fairly meaningless.  The producer usually is the one who's been there from the start of the project and who oversees everything.  The line producer is the one who tends to budgetary matters and makes sure the film tries to stick to its budget and schedule.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 08:14:24 AM
Michael Rupert is a great guy and we've always had a good time working together.  He can really deliver whatever you ask of him.  I, too, saw him in The Happy Time and enjoyed him, and he was an excellent Pippin.  My only complaint about Michael was his inability to focus on doing a solo album.  We talked about it many times, he agreed many times, but he just couldn't focus.  Someone else (another producer) e-mailed me and said HE was going to do a solo album with Michael.  I rolled my eyes and said, "Good luck."  Needless to say, the album doesn't exist.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jennifer on March 24, 2004, 08:17:21 AM
BK, you can modify your post.  Just make sure the /quote thingie is at the end of the quote (before you start typing).  You probably just started typing inside the /quote (is this making sense? :))
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 08:25:44 AM
Good morning.

WEL - It could take all day to answer the producer question, so I'll start and continue later, or someone else might continue.

Many producer credits are negotiated and pretty meaningless. Others, like Line Producer, actually have a daily job. A real producer does everything from developing the script with the writer to casting to approving locations, etc. Other producer credits are just titles to pay off certain things - like bringing the attention of a production company to a book. Oh, this could go on for months...
Let's talk about me - since I'm an expert on the subject - If I'm hired to write a script once it's already in place at a network or studio, it's unlikely I'd get a producer's credit. But if I go in and pitch it and help set it up, then, yes, I'd get producer as well as writer credit. Or - if they're dying to have me, but the writing money is low, I might say to my agent, "I'll do it if i get a producer's credit." That way I get the credit and perhaps some extra money that comes out of another pocket.
...I just realized that I'm hungry and want to eat my breakfast, so this will have to continue later. There is, BTW, now a cap on the number of producers' credits because it was getting ridiculous.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 08:27:52 AM
Very good recapitulation of my post.   ;D 8) ::)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Noel on March 24, 2004, 08:28:04 AM
BK's answer about the various producer credits doesn't really apply to network prime time dramas and sitcoms.

Most of the people receiving credit for being producers are actually writers.  A sitcom will employ about a dozen writers, all of whom punch up the script sitting around a table.  In the credits, these folks might be called Story Editor, Executive Story Editor, Producer, Associate Producer or even Executive Producer.  Most of these terms are meaningless, and credits are sometimes given in lieu of raises (or along with raises).

Then, there's sometimes a hierarchy.  A "punch-up" writer may just be there on rewrite night.  At higher levels, writers are sometimes involved in the casting process, or sit in the editing room.  And there is someone in charge: the show-runner.  He runs the show.  He decides when the script is so funny it no longer needs punching up.

That's a delicate question.  I've heard of show-runners who regularly kept the entire staff around the table punching up a script until 5 in the morning.  Others quit promptly at 6pm.  You'd think the number of hours around the table would have something to do with the quality of the final output, but it seems not to.  The "all-nighters" were pulled by the staff of Newsradio, which wasn't as funny as Frasier, which rarely had to order in dinner.

The show-runner usually gets the credit of Executive Producer, but then, so do the creators of the show, who may be different people.  The creators don't even have to be on staff, they still get their credits.  And, increasingly in recent years, stars of the show have gotten producing credits . . . not sure whether this means they did any extra work or whether the show used the credit to massage their egos.

When I was a little boy, my father was a producer.  And I'm still not sure what he did.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Matt H. on March 24, 2004, 08:30:40 AM
No, that same quote thing has happened to me, too; exactly the same thing that happened to bk and I'm sure both he and I know how to do the quote thing. I went back and double checked when it happened to me, and I saw no reason it wouldn't work. It just didn't.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 08:32:51 AM
MattH, I fixed it.  What happened was that I began typing after Michael's question - but before I did that I deleted his jpeg attachment link so it wouldn't appear in the quote.  However, it placed the very end close quote thing at the end of MY text rather than at the end of his.  I moved it back to the end of his and saved and that worked.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 08:34:36 AM
...And I now see bk already answered some of this, so I'm repeating what he said. But we all know repetition is funny - so laugh away.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 08:37:10 AM
Oh...And I now see that bk commented on my recapitulation. This is like a mirror within a mirror within a mirror...
And I still haven't had breakfast!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Noel on March 24, 2004, 08:38:38 AM
Ask BK: If you were doing The Country's in the Very Best of Hands in a cabaret show next month, with a large group of young adults, would you need to change a single word of the Johnny Mercer lyric?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 08:47:10 AM
Noel, even what you outlined is not writ in stone. I co-created a sitcom that ran for 7 years, and I left it after the first year. (Didn't like where it was going.) But for six years after that, I'd see my name right up there any Wednesday night (I actually don't remember the night) that I'd care to tune in. And I couldn't have told you anything about the show if my life depended on it.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 24, 2004, 08:47:43 AM
Matt...Camille/Carmen...you see how much I'm invested in her survival in this competition...I'm still pondering how and why she's there at all...She and red-head John both have a bad case of nerves that translates to their wavering voices.  Unlike John, she is usually out-of-tune or off-pitch. Poor John, alas, as much as I want him to succeed, I don't think is every really going to blossom.  As Simon said, he desperately needs to find his personality in this competition.  Unfortunately, I think we're seeing his personality.  Major Bland.

I actually thought...Amy?...the one with the punk red hair was the best country performer last night.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 08:50:20 AM
No, I wouldn't change a word of Johnny Mercer's lyric.  It's quite timeless, sadly.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 08:50:30 AM
Or funnily.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Noel on March 24, 2004, 08:56:43 AM
I co-created a sitcom that ran for 7 years, and I left it after the first year. (Didn't like where it was going.) But for six years after that, I'd see my name right up there any Wednesday night (I actually don't remember the night) that I'd care to tune in. And I couldn't have told you anything about the show if my life depended on it.

Yes, Panni, that's an example of exactly what I said about creators:

Quote
The creators don't even have to be on staff, they still get their credits.

And you're right that nothing's set in stone.  Unlike a union job like "key grip" there is no specific definition of what a producer does set down anywhere.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 24, 2004, 09:00:22 AM
"American Idol" -- yet again!

1.  Does anyone else think that the orchestra is just way too LOUD most of the time?  Even Simon commented to one of the singers in one of his patented gobbledygook commentaries that the sound was so loud he wouldn't be able to know for sure until he saw a playback, but he thought she was off pitch (I think he was talking to Camille).

2.  Something occurred to me last night as I was winding down -- a lot of Simon's comments, as totally off-the-map as they seem to be, remind me of things being said on the "Idol" message board about various contestants.  And I started thinking that Simon might be throwing those comments out there to see how the singers will respond, but maybe more importantly, to gauge audience response.  

Some horrible things are posted to the message boards about virtually all the singers by people who don't like them for one reason or another and they're pretty strange comments, most of them.  I've often thought Simon was playing devil's advocate when he would start arguments with the other judges.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Matt H. on March 24, 2004, 09:03:42 AM
Yep, Amy had a sensational night last evening. She finished 3rd from the bottom last week (I couldn't argue since she chose a song last week that required too much of her weak head voice), but unless someone was asleep at the switch last night, she should be safe tonight after that performance. I did vote some for her.

I recorded the show last night and plan to rewatch the performances today. (Thank goodness I can skip over all the commercials and product placement features.) I just want to hear the singing again.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Matt H. on March 24, 2004, 09:06:27 AM
DR RLP, I don't have as much a problem with the orchestra as I do the offstage singers who sometimes totally overwhelm the singers. Even on Clay's first single, the backup singers on "Bridge Over Troubled Water" are WAY too loud.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan (the Man) on March 24, 2004, 09:18:57 AM
What the heck is a "Best Boy" that's sometimes listed in credits?

(I was twice bestowed the title "Boy of the Month" while in Catholic grammar school!)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 09:22:03 AM
WEL: I'd say Kritzer Time falls in the Kritzerland territory - about ninety percent "based on" and about 10% fiction.  But, you must understand, even the "based on" gets manipulated for story purposes.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: S. Woody White on March 24, 2004, 09:31:26 AM
What the heck is a "Best Boy" that's sometimes listed in credits?

(I was twice bestowed the title "Boy of the Month" while in Catholic grammar school!)
Where is DR TCB when we need him?   ;D ::) 8)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 09:48:04 AM
What the heck is a "Best Boy" that's sometimes listed in credits?

He (or she) is the assistant to the main electrician (gaffer)  or lighting person. 8)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: MBarnum on March 24, 2004, 10:01:35 AM
For ask BK day (and ask DR day too) what are your top 5 or 10 favorite 4 hankie movies....those movies that always have you sobbing or in tears..tears of sadness or tears of happiness.

Mine are:

ANAND: a 1970 Bollywood movie that had me crying more then any film I have ever seen in my life. It is about a man who is dying but lives his remaining months trying to make others happy.

STAND UP AND CHEER: For some reason the final song number is so emotional for me. I don't know why.

BORN FREE

GHOST AND MRS. MUIR

SENTIMENTAL JOURNEY: This is the first movie I can remember making me cry. I was only about 8 or 9 when I first saw it.

A CHILD IS BORN: 1940s movie about a maternity ward.

AN EARLY FROST

BLOSSOMS IN THE DUST: Greer Garson fighting for the rights of illegitimate children

SYMPHONY OF SIX MILLION: Ricardo Cortez in an old RKO melodrama as a Jewish doctor. With Irene Dunn.

PENNY SERENADE: How could you watch this one and not cry!

Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 10:09:02 AM
Hankie movies:

It's a Wonderful Life
The Miracle Worker
City Lights
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: William E. Lurie on March 24, 2004, 10:10:30 AM
Thanks for the producer info.  It seems to me from what I read that many of the producers are writters with the ego to ask for producer credits and others get the credit as a reward for something else.  I don't watch that much network television, but when I do, I notice that the opening credits run about five minutes (mostly names of various producers) and since they are usually superimposed over the actual show they can be very distracting.

One movie I always cry at is UMBRELLAS OF CHEROURG.  The site of Ms. Denuve in that mink starts the tear ducts flowing and they remain so through the whole gas station scene in the snow as the beautiful Legrand music swells up.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Stuart on March 24, 2004, 10:11:07 AM
What a great subject, DR MBarnum!  I, for one, am not embarassed to admit I cry at the movies:

TERMS OF ENDEARMENT (Saw this alone on New Year's Day 1983.  Poor woman next to me -- also there for a good cry, I could tell -- finally put her little Kleenex "purse pack" in my lap at one point.  Buckets, I cried.  Buckets.)

NOW, VOYAGER

STEPMOM (I hate to admit this one, but remember being manipulated into tears....)

I'm sure there are others.....
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 24, 2004, 10:15:15 AM
What the heck is a "Best Boy" that's sometimes listed in credits?

(I was twice bestowed the title "Boy of the Month" while in Catholic grammar school!)

Was this a school title, or ...

And for TCB:

..and, Oh! My! TWICE! You WERE a good boy, weren't you...!!!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 24, 2004, 10:22:53 AM
Hanky movies:

Imitation of Life (both)
A Star is Born (1954)
Old Yeller
Terms of Endearment
Goodbye Mr. Chips (1969)
Field of Dreams (this one grabs me about a half hour from the ending and wrings me and wrings me and wrings me)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jennifer on March 24, 2004, 10:25:07 AM
Re: American Idol

I HATE that in most songs the back-up track/singers seems to overtake the actual singers.

I must disagree about Simon.  I love him.  And how exactly would we know what he actually says with Paula and Randy always interupting him.  I mentioned this weeks ago.  But it is starting to drive me crazy.  Why do P & R think that whatever they say is correct and whatever Simon says is wrong.  Just let him give his freakin opinion AND THEN comment.

It's sort of funny when the audience boos (when Simon starts to say something negative).  But it's not as amusing (to me at least) when the other judges do it.

Oh and I agree, that pink-haired Amy had the best country voice last night.  I just really don't like the pink hair though.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan (the Man) on March 24, 2004, 10:28:18 AM
Quote
(I was twice bestowed the title "Boy of the Month" while in Catholic grammar school!)

Was this a school title, or ...

Yes, a school title--it had nothing to do with the priests.

Quote
..and, Oh! My! TWICE! You WERE a good boy, weren't you...!!!

Good had nothing to do with it, dearie!  ;)  

(Aww, c'mon!  You had to expect that answer. )
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: MBarnum on March 24, 2004, 10:30:45 AM
I think City Lights is on TCM this early evening! I meant to tape it and I forgot to set my timer.  I must go home and set it before I go to the gym. The discussions of that film on HHW have convinced me that I must see it!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Maya on March 24, 2004, 10:31:48 AM
Hey, everyone!  

I was so happy in math class today!  The professor ran out of time, because it took so long for everyone to finish a quiz, and so I have no homework for tonight!

ASK BK Question
I recently acquired "Lost in Boston III" and I love it (was very pleased to hear Guy Haines' charming rendition of "The Bee," cut from Where's Charley?, the show I'm currently in) ...I really need to get the rest of the series.  I was just wondering; how did you find the trunk songs that you put on the albums, and did you have any kind of system for selecting them?

Some favorite weepies

Camille (with Garbo)
Carousel
Dancer in the Dark
Umbrellas of Cherbourg
A Star is Born
Thirteen

Well, since I have some spare time, I think I shall start on "Kritzertime!"

Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan (the Man) on March 24, 2004, 10:47:44 AM
Git-Out-Yer-Hankerchief Movies:

Terms of Endearment
Kramer vs Kramer
It's a Wonderful Life
LOTR:  The Return of the King
To Kill a Mockingbird

The first time I saw ET was about two weeks after my father died and I cried buckets.  Oddly, the movie hasn't effected me much at all in subsequent viewings.  

I was also brought to tears with the recent Hallmark Hall of Fame TV movie The Blackwater Lightship.  That one was a stunner.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: TCB on March 24, 2004, 10:58:06 AM
Where is DR TCB when we need him?   ;D ::) 8)

The Best Boy is an assistant gaffer.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 11:07:45 AM
Hankie movies:
UMBERTO D
TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD
CASABLANCA
OLD YELLER
THE DEAD
THE PAWNBROKER
GLEN OR GLENDA (just kidding)

I'm sure I'll think of more later.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 11:11:04 AM
Maya: Yes, start on Kritzer Time.  By the time of LIBIII I had no problem calling composers or publishers about cut songs.  Everyone had loved the first two volumes, so doors were pretty much open.  Selecting was easy: I had to like the song, or, had to find it at least historically interesting.  For example, the cut song Waiting from The King and I is fairly awful, but very interesting historically, so I included it.  But some of these cut songs, as I've said many times, were/are as good or better as what ended up in the actual scores.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 11:11:44 AM
...And this may seem silly, but that first glorious shot of THE SOUND OF MUSIC is guaranteed to turn me into a blubbering mess.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 11:16:39 AM
Must get back to work.. But HOW could I leave out AN AFFAIR TO REMEMBER (the Cary Grant-Deborah Kerr version, of course). Bring on the buckets.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Stuart on March 24, 2004, 11:18:58 AM
IMITATION OF LIFE, of course!  How could I forget all those Douglas Sirk/Universal weepers??!!??

Also, the Bette Midler STELLA.  Cried and cried and cried.  (I loathe to admit that I can't recall ever seeing the Stanwyck version in its entirety.)

And Harry Bailey's toast gets me every time.  For one brother to express those emotions to another.....
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Stuart on March 24, 2004, 11:20:59 AM
Must get back to work.. But HOW could I leave out AN AFFAIR TO REMEMBER (the Cary Grant-Deborah Kerr version, of course). Bring on the buckets.

Another one, and I agree with you about SOUND OF MUSIC, too.

Along those lines (and I hate to admit this, too), the title song in MAME makes me cry.  Both onstage, and in the movie.  But for different reasons......
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 11:23:07 AM
But, you must understand, even the "based on" gets manipulated for story purposes.

And it was done beautifully.  :)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: TCB on March 24, 2004, 11:24:58 AM
He (or she) is the assistant to the main electrician (gaffer)  or lighting person. 8)

Whoops, sorry.  That is what happens when you don't keep up on the posts.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: elmore3003 on March 24, 2004, 11:31:32 AM
Maya: Yes, start on Kritzer Time.  By the time of LIBIII I had no problem calling composers or publishers about cut songs.  Everyone had loved the first two volumes, so doors were pretty much open.  Selecting was easy: I had to like the song, or, had to find it at least historically interesting.  For example, the cut song Waiting from The King and I is fairly awful, but very interesting historically, so I included it.  But some of these cut songs, as I've said many times, were/are as good or better as what ended up in the actual scores.

And you never mentioned those endless pages of cut songs I faxed you from every resource book I could lay hands on!

WEEPERS:

E.T.  still
THE DEAD (thank you, DR Panni, for that one, a great movie!)
A ROOM WITH A VIEW (that last shot in Florence)
TIME AFTER TIME (when Mary Steenburgen climbs in the time machine)

When I was 12 and saw the film CAROUSEL for the first time, I sobbed so loudly my brother changed seats.  Now I weep because I think the film's such a bad adaptation of a great show.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 11:46:02 AM
I still have all the rejects.  Especially bad were all the cut songs from Molly Brown - shocking really.  

Just had a lovely e-mail from someone via classmates, a Hamilton alumni who just read Kritzer Time.  He said it was like reliving his life.  
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 11:49:05 AM
Danise, our newest Goddess, WELCOME.

Happy Birthday Angela.

I cry very easily at movies so I can’t think of a particular movie that affects me since most do.  MBarnum named two excellent choices, THE GHOST AND MRS. MUIR AND PENNY SERENADE.

RPL also named a real tear jerker, OLD YELLER, except I do not watch those sad animal movies, or I turn them off way before the ending.  Reading OLD YELLER in my 7th grade history class cured me of ever reading during classes again.  I was reading the end of OLD YELLER when I, of course, began crying.  Fortunately I was sitting in the back of the class & the only person to notice was my friend sitting in front of me.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan-in-Toronto on March 24, 2004, 11:49:45 AM
Bring out the Kleenex:

Magnificent Obsession
Limelight
An Affair to Remember
Philadelphia
Madame X
Goodbye Mr. Chips (Peter O'Toole)
Umbrellas of Cherbourg
Longtime Companion (thanks for the reminder, TCB)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan-in-Toronto on March 24, 2004, 11:55:01 AM
A variation on the earlier ask-BK (and others) question:

Songs that should have been cut, but were not. Here are four that come to mind - two from hits, two from flops:


Now I Have Everything (Fiddler on the Roof)
Why Should I Wake Up? (Cabaret)
To Be Artistic (Henry Sweet Henry)
Suzy Is a Good Thing (Pipe Dream)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: George on March 24, 2004, 11:56:28 AM
I've never really been one to cry at movies.  I certainly can be manipulated into tearing up, but rarely going over the edge into "crying."  Actually, one of the very few shows that had me shed tears was the made-for-TV "Andre's Mother (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000JQA3/qid=1080157999/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-1434490-5343122?v=glance&s=video)."  Richard Thomas was the lover of Sada Thompson's recently deceased son.  It was written by Terrence McNally and it was wonderful and sad and very uplifting.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jennifer on March 24, 2004, 12:08:41 PM
Do you guys find that you tend not to cry if anyone else can see you?

I am emotional and can burst into tears watching anything.  But never if anyone else can see me.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 12:11:26 PM
Nothing to be sorry about, TCB. Just shows what clever people we both are.

Just noticed I spelled "Cary" with two R's. Eeeeek. Forgive me, Mr. Grant. :P I hope DR Stuart removes the offending typo in his post with my quote in it. I've already modified the original.
 
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 12:16:51 PM



          WELCOME TO THE CLOUDS, DR DANISE!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Maya on March 24, 2004, 12:37:33 PM
Maya: Yes, start on Kritzer Time.  By the time of LIBIII I had no problem calling composers or publishers about cut songs.  Everyone had loved the first two volumes, so doors were pretty much open.  Selecting was easy: I had to like the song, or, had to find it at least historically interesting.  For example, the cut song Waiting from The King and I is fairly awful, but very interesting historically, so I included it.  But some of these cut songs, as I've said many times, were/are as good or better as what ended up in the actual scores.

I just read the first 60 pages or so of "Kritzer Time," and as I had anticipated, so far it's every bit as good as the first two!  I know I laughed out loud on numerous occassions.  

I agree about the cut songs in some cases being as good as the songs that stayed in the show.  I think "Travelin' Light" and "Pink Taffeta Sample Size 10" are my favorites of the songs from LIB III, just because they're both fine pieces and because they establish character so beautifully.  I really like "Mama's Talking Soft" too, but I had already heard that before, and I like "If Momma Got Married" even more.  

I didn't think any of the songs were really bad, but of them all, I think I can see why "You Don't Have to Kiss Me Goodnight," got cut from the Music Man, hehe.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 12:42:03 PM
I really love Pink Tafetta Sample Size 10, especially as sung by Lynne Wintersteller.  I'm sure it didn't work in Sweet Charity, but it's a great, great song.

Funnily, I really like both Now I Have Everything and Why Should I Wake Up.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: elmore3003 on March 24, 2004, 12:48:55 PM
Quote from: bk link=board=4;threadid=219;start=msg34551#msg34551
Funnily, I really like both Now I Have Everything and Why Should I Wake Up.
[quote

Et moi, aussi!  Why does DR Dan think they should be cut?  

Some of those songs are cut because they were early tries while the writers were  still finding their way into a show and its characters, sometimes it's because the singer can't carry it off, sometimes the audience doesn't care.  Dear friend BK, what other reasons can you think of?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Stuart on March 24, 2004, 12:50:53 PM
I've also been always been a big fan of "Now I Have Everything" and "Why Should I Wake Up."

If I ever got to "You-can-cut-shows-the-way-you-want" heaven, the first thing to go would be "Motherhood" in DOLLY.  I adore most of Mr. Herman's compositions, but to this I say "UUuuuugggchhhh"

And DR Panni, when I figure out how to edit posts, I will certainly take care of that grievous error.  (I wasn't going to say anything.......)   ;)

Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Stuart on March 24, 2004, 12:52:19 PM
And might I say, I wonder how the late great Bert Convy would feel about all of us even THINKING about cutting his big numbers in his two biggest hits.....
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jennifer on March 24, 2004, 12:54:47 PM
On your own posts you will see a "modify" button.  Hit it and you can make any changes you want to your post.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 12:56:38 PM
Motherhood was not written by Mr. Herman.

The reasons elmoore states are the most frequent reasons for songs being cut and/or replaced.  They don't suit the moment, or illuminate the character enough, or a character is cut from the show (10% from Chicago), or the show is too long, or a number is too much like another or is redundant.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Stuart on March 24, 2004, 01:02:38 PM
Thank you, DR Jennifer.

All taken care of, DR Panni.

And I knew that "Elegance" was not written by Mr. Herman.  But I didn't realize that "Motherhood" wasn't either.  More reason for it to be excised!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Matt H. on March 24, 2004, 01:07:14 PM
I love many of the hankie films already mentioned including especially IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE, TERMS OF ENDEARMENT, IMITATION OF LIFE. I'll add one of my favorite classic tearjerkers:

DARK VICTORY
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Matt H. on March 24, 2004, 01:11:39 PM
I have no problem crying in front of others. If something is good enough to earn my tears, more power to the creators.

I was a soppy mess at the end of LORD OF THE RING: THE RETURN OF THE KING, and I couldn't leave my seat for several minutes after the end of LONGTIME COMPANION because I was so moved.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: William E. Lurie on March 24, 2004, 01:14:10 PM
"Pink Taffeta Sample Size 10" was cut because Miss Verdon did not want to sing another solo.  If fact, once a show was open (at least in REDHEAD & SWEET CHARITY) she often cut a couple of songs at some performances depending on her mood.  The late Claudia Cassidy --- probably the best Chicago drama & dance critic ever --- suggested that whenever Miss Verdon cut a song in the National tour of REDHEAD that she played in Chicago, audience members should request a refund of 3% of the ticket price per song, as each song represented about 3% of the show's running time.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: TCB on March 24, 2004, 01:18:24 PM
Movies that make me cry?  Wow, I have got to be  careful or I could have a very long list.  Hell, Anacin commercials used to make me cry.  Let’s see:

Madame X
E.T. (sorry DR Charles Pogue)
Camelot
An Affair to Remember
The Way We Were
Something for Joey
Brian’s Song
An Early Frost
Longtime Companion
Carousel
Breakfast at Tiffany’s
Where the Red Fern Grows
Dumbo
Bambi
Random Harvest
A Night to Remember
Titanic (1953)
Spartacus



Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 01:37:30 PM
Yea, DARK VICTORY still gets me.

TCB if Anacin commercials make you cry, what do Hallmark commercials do to you? :D
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan-in-Toronto on March 24, 2004, 01:43:06 PM
"The late Claudia Cassidy --- probably the best Chicago drama & dance critic ever --- suggested that whenever Miss Verdon cut a song in the National tour of REDHEAD that she played in Chicago, audience members should request a refund of 3% of the ticket price per song, as each song represented about 3% of the show's running time.


I saw Funny Girl at a Saturday matinee, and I imagine Barbra Streisand was trying to conserve her energy for the evening performance. When the moment came for "Who Are You Now" - my favorite song in the show - she merely asked the question to herself ("Who Are You Now, Nu?" Okay, maybe without the "nu"), and carried on. It was a thrill to see Barbra and Funny Girl, but I felt cheated.

As for "Why Should I Wake Up?" and "Now I Have Everything," I'm not particularly crazy about either lyric. And I suspected - rightly or wrongly - that each existed mainly to give its show a stand-alone hit.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: S. Woody White on March 24, 2004, 01:51:11 PM
Tear-jerkers:

I was wondering if anyone was going to mention Bambi.  Kudos to TCB.

Add to the list Edward Scissorhands.  It grabs right when you don't expect it to.  We played the film one Christmas for my father, sister, and bro-in-law.  My sister fell absolutely to pieces, and hated us for watching her use up the box of Kleenex.  (Which of course made it that much funnier for the rest of us.)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Maya on March 24, 2004, 02:15:22 PM
"Pink Taffeta Sample Size 10" was cut because Miss Verdon did not want to sing another solo.  If fact, once a show was open (at least in REDHEAD & SWEET CHARITY) she often cut a couple of songs at some performances depending on her mood.  The late Claudia Cassidy --- probably the best Chicago drama & dance critic ever --- suggested that whenever Miss Verdon cut a song in the National tour of REDHEAD that she played in Chicago, audience members should request a refund of 3% of the ticket price per song, as each song represented about 3% of the show's running time.

Wow, WEL, that's fascinating!  And there ARE so many wonderful solos for Charity as is...but it's SUCH a good song!!!  (Charity is a role I would give just about anything to play, if only I could dance, hehe).

I really like "Why Should I Wake Up," actually, and I think it's even lovelier as a duet between the WSMA and Ruthie Henshall.  

Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: TCB on March 24, 2004, 02:26:43 PM
Yea, DARK VICTORY still gets me.

TCB if Anacin commercials make you cry, what do Hallmark commercials do to you? :D

Oh, I can't watch those.  I just change the channel.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Matt H. on March 24, 2004, 02:28:13 PM
"Why Should I Wake Up" is a beautiful song, and I also enjoyed the Sally-Cliff duet "Perfectly Marvelous," both from the original version of CABARET.

There are many, many things I like about the revised version of CABARET, but turning Cliff into a basically non-singing role is not one of them.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 02:54:22 PM
Yes, SWW, add EDWARD SCISSORHANDS to my growing list. The music alone makes me cry.

Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 02:59:57 PM
Welcome 18 GUESTS!  Yes, Virginia, you heard that right, 18 GUESTS.  3 users, 18 GUESTS.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 03:02:49 PM
Oh, I can't watch those.  I just change the channel.

Because you are crying too much, or gagging? ;D
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: td on March 24, 2004, 03:17:36 PM
...And this may seem silly, but that first glorious shot of THE SOUND OF MUSIC is guaranteed to turn me into a blubbering mess.

Me, too!  Totally!  I am a blubbering boob as far as TSoM is concerned. . .don't even get me started on the Elsa/Maria scene just before Intermission!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: td on March 24, 2004, 03:18:55 PM
Whoops, sorry.  That is what happens when you don't keep up on the posts.

If you ever need any help keeping up, TCB, I'm your man.   ;)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 03:22:28 PM
Welcome 23 GUESTS.  4 users, 23 GUESTS.  Let's switch that around and make it 23 users and 4 GUESTS.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 24, 2004, 03:57:18 PM
FINALLY!

My "Jerry Goldsmith at 20th Century-Fox" boxed set has arrived, BK!

I was beginning to despair...but it's here, it's here!

"A-at last..............."
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jennifer on March 24, 2004, 03:57:37 PM
Wow. I find it so interesting to hear about Verdon or Streisand skipping songs.  Does anyone think an actor could get away with that now?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 24, 2004, 03:58:50 PM
P.S.

"The Secret Garden" arrived today, BK.   It looks lovely!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 04:01:30 PM
I think you will be very pleased with the Goldsmith.  The three discs that Nick was responsible for (4,5 and 6) are the best - well-ordered and, of course, all the rare material.  The first three discs are weak - not because it's repeated material, but because it's not a great listening experience because of the order.  Mr. Townson seems to have grouped the scores by genre as much as possible, which to my mind doesn't work.  I would actually have preferred the first three discs to be chronological.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan-in-Toronto on March 24, 2004, 04:02:15 PM
The most exciting thing I have to post is that, at the moment, I'm making cabbage rolls.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 04:21:44 PM
P.S.

"The Secret Garden" arrived today, BK.   It looks lovely!

Is that the original cast CD?  One of these days I'm going to get it.  It is strange but since moving here I rarely go into a CD store.  I know I can order on line but I don't.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 24, 2004, 04:26:13 PM
No, DR Jane, "The Secret Garden" I got is on Varese Sarabande and is a world premiere recording  with music by Sharon Burgett and lyrics by Burgett and Susan Beckwith-Smith and Diana Matterson.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Laura II on March 24, 2004, 04:30:22 PM
I never knew ordering sheet music was so much of a hassle. Oy. I ordered $232.32 worth of music and showtrax cds for the voice classes at work. $3.20 of that order is mine. I'm told I'll be reimbursed by Boss Man, but why do I get the feeling that I'm going to end up with the bill? I don't know if he'll be pleased with the fact that I decided to buy multiple copies of music for the kids (i.e. the legal way). Composers and arrangers and all those people need to make money, too, and I wasn't going to buy one copy and let him photocopy it. Here's to hoping that I'll get my money from him!

(Sorry, it's been a rough week, and it's only Wednesday. I can't wait until I'm back to my usual happy ways!)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Michael on March 24, 2004, 04:31:24 PM
Michael Rupert is a great guy and we've always had a good time working together.  He can really deliver whatever you ask of him.  I, too, saw him in The Happy Time and enjoyed him, and he was an excellent Pippin.  My only complaint about Michael was his inability to focus on doing a solo album.  We talked about it many times, he agreed many times, but he just couldn't focus.  Someone else (another producer) e-mailed me and said HE was going to do a solo album with Michael.  I rolled my eyes and said, "Good luck."  Needless to say, the album doesn't exist.

If memory serves wasn't the album supposed to be one of Kander and Ebb songs?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 04:35:37 PM
That was one of many things we talked about.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Michael on March 24, 2004, 04:45:07 PM
The first movie I remember crying at (actually I waited until i got home) was Old Yeller at age of 5 0r 6. I have not seen it since them or will I watch it again
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 04:53:30 PM
Michael Shayne, at that young age, or any age, I can’t believe you waited until you got home to cry.  Was that due to the old theory that boys don’t cry?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Robin on March 24, 2004, 05:03:57 PM
I've only actually cried at one (count 'em, one) movie.  Which I will save for last.

Gods and Monsters
Pinocchio
Dumbo
City Lights
.  If you're not moved by the final scene in this movie, get yourself to a therapist.  
The Letter
Now, Voyager
Edward Scissorhands
Grand Hotel
Queen Christina
.  Garbo was the queen of the tearjerkers.
King Kong.  One of my all-time favorite movies, and the greatest tearjerker ever made, at least IMHO.  (That's "in my humble opinion" for you internet newbies.)  When I saw this as a kid, Kong terrified me at first, and then the big lug slowly won me over.  When poor Kong took the fall off of the Empire State Building, my ten-year-old heart was shattered.  
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 05:14:12 PM
Robin, oh yes KING KONG was so sad.  But I thought Loretta Young was the queen of tear jerkers.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 05:18:21 PM
I shall be leaving soon to attend the popular song lecture.  You all be sure to keep the home fries burning, you hear?  I want loads of lovely posts when I return, for I shall need your usual excellence for my mental delectation.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan (the Man) on March 24, 2004, 05:24:17 PM
The most exciting thing I have to post is that, at the moment, I'm making cabbage rolls.


As the Schmenge Brothers on SCTV used to sing:

"Cabbage rolls and coffee!
Mmmm!  Mmmm!  Good!"
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Robin on March 24, 2004, 05:37:54 PM
Gosh, and I've just finished a batch of raparperikiisseli.  (That's "rhubarb pudding" for you non-Finns out there.)  

Dee-lish.  
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Michael on March 24, 2004, 05:53:17 PM
Michael Shayne, at that young age, or any age, I can’t believe you waited until you got home to cry.  Was that due to the old theory that boys don’t cry?

Well no one else was crying and I didn't want to be the only one. So I waited until I got home. My parents never encouraged that theory that boys don't cry.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 05:54:37 PM
No, DR Jane, "The Secret Garden" I got is on Varese Sarabande and is a world premiere recording  with music by Sharon Burgett and lyrics by Burgett and Susan Beckwith-Smith and Diana Matterson.

Thanks RLP.  I did a little research on this and definitely want it now.  I still want a cast version of it, so question to all readers.  Shall I get the original Broadway or London recording?  
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Ben on March 24, 2004, 05:54:48 PM
Some time this week or week end we will pass the 35,000 message mark. Right now Robin's message put us at 34,579.

Movies that tear me up:

already mentioned the 1953 Titanic w/Clifton Webb and Barbara Stanwyck

also already mentioned Longtime Companion

I thing because I'm so late in posting lots of mine are already mentioned. There are parts of Dumbo that just rip my heart out.

Old Yeller

An Early Frost

I'll stop now because I'm just repeating.

Still tweaking the ole computer. I'll be back tomorrow morning.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Robin on March 24, 2004, 05:55:56 PM
I just won an eBay auction for Guy Haines' "His Way" on CD.  

Spiffy, eh?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Michael on March 24, 2004, 05:56:17 PM
Just wanted to say that I am still reading Kritzer Time and thoroughly emjoying it. It is the favorite of the trilogy. I can relate to so much that Benjamin was experiencing at the time only that it happened to be several years later.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Danise on March 24, 2004, 05:57:35 PM
Evening all!

Just call me the Goddess of Duh—I didn’t even know I had turned into one until I signed onto the board.  Thank you all for the lovely welcome to the clouds.   :D

And as for YOUR suggestion, Tom, Let me test my new powers.  ::snap:: What’s this?  Two tickets to go see Michael Ball.  ::Snap::Snap:: And this?  The airfare and hotel room.  Hummm Let’s see what else I can do.  ::::snap::::snap::::snap::::  Wow, I’m all booked for NYC!  

Well, that is true.  I paid for the NYC trip last night so it’s official.    I’m coming or going (depending on your point of view). I will be staying at the Milford.  It just seemed to make the most sense.

I woke up feeling ill last night and it has lasted into tonight.  I don’t know what the problem is.  My tummy is in knots and my head aching.  I don’t know if God-dum does that to a person, the pollen count or too much excitement about the trip and all.

Talking about hanky shows, I do hope I don’t see a sad one while in NYC.  I cry buckets at POTO.  I would be so embarrassed to be with someone and not be able to stop.

I think I’ve already said before that the Wizard of Oz was my yearly cry when I was growing up.  And The Ghost and Mrs. Muir is at least a 4 hankie film.   If/when we all meet, we’ll have to watch that one together and have group cry.  I’ll even spring for a couple of boxes of tissues.

Knightriders always gets me as well.

Bruce, how did you know where I stopped reading today?   :)
 
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 05:59:31 PM
My parents never encouraged that theory that boys don't cry.

That's a relief but I can't believe no one was crying.  You just didn't hear them.  No one ever hears me cry at a movie, well maybe a sniffle but that's it.

Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Michael on March 24, 2004, 06:00:25 PM
Thanks RLP.  I did a little research on this and definitely want it now.  I still want a cast version of it, so question to all readers.  Shall I get the original Broadway or London recording?  

They are different scores.
The Broadway score is by Lucy Simon and Marsha Norman. The London cast is a studio recording with Barbara Cook, Judy Kaye and John Cullum is by a number of composers and lyricists and has many songs that I would recommend. Especially the song Something Special sung by Barbara Cook
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 06:07:14 PM
Danise I hope you feel better by tomorrow.  I’m a bit dense so must ask, what is POTO?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan-in-Toronto on March 24, 2004, 06:09:18 PM
We just received the March 25 issue of the Canadian Jewish News, which features Passover recipes. Here's the first line in the recipe for the main course: "Clean turkey and prick all over."
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 06:10:53 PM
Oh, and yes we will watch THE GHOST & MRS. MUIR. :D

Thanks for the info Michael Shayne.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 06:12:24 PM
LOL.

Be sure to let me know if you find any good tofu recipes.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jennifer on March 24, 2004, 06:15:09 PM
Hey DR Goddess Danise, feel better!

I will save my american idol comments for tomorrow.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: TCB on March 24, 2004, 06:15:19 PM
If you ever need any help keeping up, TCB, I'm your man.   ;)


Hmmm, are you busy this weekend, td?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 06:17:48 PM
Laura II I'm sorry I forgot to mention GOOD VIBES  for a good, rest of the week.  Hope you get reimbursed.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Danise on March 24, 2004, 06:20:02 PM
::Chuckle::  I understand, Jane.  

P hantom
O f
T he
O pera

 :)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: TCB on March 24, 2004, 06:25:00 PM
Because you are crying too much, or gagging? ;D

Ah, Jane, I believe there is a touch of cynicism in you after all!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 06:30:33 PM
TCB you found me out. ;D
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Danise on March 24, 2004, 06:35:47 PM
Thank you for the good wishes DR and fellow Goddess Jennifer.  I hope so too.  I hate having an upset tummy.  

Goodnight all.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 06:35:52 PM
I must be truthful, I have been known to get teary eyed during a Hallmark commercial and TCB you didn't answer my question. :D
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 06:36:29 PM
Good night Danise, sleep well.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 24, 2004, 06:39:13 PM
The ones that get me sobbing:

Penny Serenade
Random Harvest
The Light That Failed ( There is a long epiphanal story that goes with this one that I don't have time to tell now)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: td on March 24, 2004, 06:43:32 PM
Hmmm, are you busy this weekend, td?

I have ABSOLUTely nothing on my plate this weekend, TCB.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: td on March 24, 2004, 06:46:56 PM
DR Michael Shayne:  There is indeed a London Cast Recording of THE SECRET GARDEN - - the Lucy Simon/Marsha Norman one. . .Linzi Hateley is Martha. . . .

(http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00005BCD6.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: td on March 24, 2004, 06:48:15 PM
DR Charles Pogue - in a bargain book store tonight, I saw a copy of "The making of Dragonheart."  Do you have it?  Would you like to have it?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 06:57:50 PM
Charles Pogue and anyone else interested, THE MAJOR & THE MINOR will be on TCM April 2nd.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Michael on March 24, 2004, 06:59:42 PM
DR Michael Shayne:  There is indeed a London Cast Recording of THE SECRET GARDEN - - the Lucy Simon/Marsha Norman one. . .Linzi Hateley is Martha. . . .

(http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00005BCD6.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)

When did that come out????
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Robin on March 24, 2004, 07:11:18 PM
I noticed today that my review of Benjamin Kritzer is now up on the Barnes and Noble website.  I actually submitted it over a week ago.  Better late than never, I guess.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Emily on March 24, 2004, 07:15:59 PM
Oh dear... here it is at 10pm on the East Coast and I'm only posting now.  

I don't even have a good excuse other than sheer laziness :P

Movies that always make me cry, eh?  Well I will admit I don't drop tears all that often in the face of sad movies although there is a (in)infamous family story of a very young me weeping BUCKETS when I saw the Sullivan Entertainment version of... wait for it... Anne of Green Gables.   Looking back I have no idea WHY the scene where Diana's mother forbids Diana to be friends with Anne after Anne gets Diana drunk seemed so over-the-top tragic to me at the time but, hey, I was a sensitive child! ;)

DR Maya - don't pretend you can't dance enough to be in Sweet Charity... I seem to recall you shaking quite the hoof back in the days of the "First Post Dance" (*twirl shake bootay-shake dance dance spirit fingers*)

Tomorrow morning I have to get up very early so that I can register for my next year's classes the minute the system opens at 7am.  I'm graduating in the Spring '05 (barring some horrific bad vibes) and this is my one and only chance to get into the best classes available to me in my field if only because the Poli. Sci. department has a number of really really popular classes that are filled in record times (read: 30 minutes after registration opens to the first graduating students with early reg. dates).  

My Tentative Schedule:

1) The Modern Family
2) Canadian Voting Patterns
3) Issues in Canadian Democracy
4) Media and Politics
5) Peacebuilding
6) Immigration and Multiculturalism
7) Religion and the Arts
8) Pop Music after 1945

Wish me good registration vibes!  (btw - your good health vibes worked wonders and I can *feel* the cold inching away nicely... so thanks!!! :D)  
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: TCB on March 24, 2004, 07:21:22 PM
I must be truthful, I have been known to get teary eyed during a Hallmark commercial and TCB you didn't answer my question. :D

Well, Jane, the tears are really limitied to those Anacin commercials with the hammer pounding on the anvil inside the person's head.  The Hallmark ads, however, have resulted in several severe insulin reactions. ::)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Robin on March 24, 2004, 07:25:01 PM
Earlier today, Noel asked BK about "The Country's in the Very Best of Hands" from Li'l Abner.  BK replied that he wouldn't change any of the lyric, inferring that it's timeless.  And, of course, as long as there are two competing parties in American politics, it always will be.  (And thank heaven for that!)

I've been listening to the re-issued Li'l Abner CD, and darned if some of it isn't more timely than when it was staged/filmed back in the fifties.  "Oh, Happy Day!" could easily be interpreted today as a song about cloning (or genetic engineering).  In fact, the whole business about turning the hillbillies into bodybuilders (and back!) is a great science fiction-y idea.  

I think it's about time for a Broadway revival of Li'l Abner!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: TCB on March 24, 2004, 07:25:26 PM
I have ABSOLUTely nothing on my plate this weekend, TCB.


td, it wasn't your plate that interested me!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: S. Woody White on March 24, 2004, 07:25:28 PM
Perennially
Offensive
Tourist
Attraction
Takes
Over!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 24, 2004, 07:25:48 PM
There is also an Australian cast recording of "The Secret Garden" (highlights from) with Anthony Warlow, Marina Prior and Philip Quast on a Polydor CD
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 24, 2004, 07:30:17 PM
I'll bet you could get a flight from Washington to Pennsylvania, TCB....
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: S. Woody White on March 24, 2004, 07:30:36 PM
We had a reprise of our Cheese Fondue dinner from a couple of weeks ago.  Gruyere melted with white wine, some kirchewasser, a little garlic rubbed in the pot, served up with good French bread.  A couple of good sausages on the side, and a nice salad.  Yummers.

We didn't even bother with American Yodel tonight.  So, who was told that they stink even worse than the other candidates?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 07:30:49 PM
Emily  good registration vibes!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: S. Woody White on March 24, 2004, 07:37:08 PM
I haven't heard the London or Aussie Secret Garden, but the NYC OCR is danged good.  Mandy is on his meds and doesn't lose control, Westenberg gets to be villianous, Rebecca Luker is a ghost but in great voice throughout, and John Cameron Mitchell is...well, he sure ain't Hedwig here.  All in all, good performances of a good score.

By the way, on Luker's new solo disc, she sings "Wick" from the SG score with former castmate Alison Fraser.  Best track on the disc, if you ask me.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Laura II on March 24, 2004, 07:41:26 PM
Jane, you are quite possibly the sweetest woman ever! You are so kind to everyone! I'm quite happy to tell you that I'm feeling happier now, and I have a feeling that the week will only get better. I think your vibes worked! :D

Movies that make me cry:
Hmm it all depends. I cry fairly easily. I *do* remember that I didn't cry at A Walk to Remember, and apparently all teenage girls were supposed to cry at that. I might have teared up, but it was so predictable.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jay on March 24, 2004, 07:44:11 PM
I saw Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind this evening, Dear Readers.  I liked it!  There's never any doubt that Charlie Kaufman did the screenplay, with its surreal points of view from within the mind of the Jim Carrey character.  In terms of mindplay, it's more akin to Being John Malkovich, which I absolutely adored, than Adaptation, which, despite its incredible self-indulgence, in the end, I also liked.  ESotSM offers some fun performances from the supporting cast (Kirsten Dunst, Mark Ruffalo, Elijah Wood and Tom Wilkinson) and good work from both Mr. Carrey and Kate Winslet.  Despite the central plot device of selective memory elimination, the film is really a warm-hearted love story.  See it!

Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: MBarnum on March 24, 2004, 07:53:22 PM
Boy so many hankie movies! I am glad to know we can all have a good cry now and then and enjoy it! LOL!

I will also add certain episodes of LASSIE can get me teary eyed...and now that I think about it the orignal version of THE INCREDIBLE JOURNEY had me balling like a baby in the movie theater (or course I was practically still a baby as I was only 6 years old) when the cat falls into the creek and is swept away! Man that really upset me at the time!!

Also, I used to get quite a lump in my throat while watching MENTOS commercials...I just loved who no matter what the difficulty or trouble everyone was happy and nice at the end of the commercial! I guess I am just a softy! LOL!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Charles Pogue on March 24, 2004, 08:07:32 PM
td, Yes, I have a couple of copies of The Making of Dragonheart.  I actually a couple of boxes of Dragonheart merchandising from shampoo to action figures to colouring books...
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Sandra on March 24, 2004, 08:12:44 PM
Well, here I am, putting off studying for the two tests I have tomorrow. Whoever invented the essay exam really needs to be shot.

That's really all I have to say.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Noel on March 24, 2004, 08:24:10 PM
I cry at anything.  Most recently at A Thousand Clowns.  I think I even cried at The Court Jester.  Since moving away from a beloved home town was the major trauma of my childhood, I've always wept at Margaret O'Brien's bashing the snow people in Meet Me In St. Louis.

Why Can't I Wake Up may be my all-time favorite Kander & Ebb song.  And, on Broadway now, Now I Have Everything is the most emotional song that doesn't involve the chorus in Fiddler on the Roof.

I love Pink Taffeta Sample out of context.  But if you're watching a musical about a prostitute, the last thing you want to hear about it the woman's happy family life.  It just starts the mind racing - in the wrong way - and you ask "How'd she get to be a prostitute."  Better to avoid the subject entirely, as the final draft of Sweet Charity does.

Picked up The Country's In the Very Best of Hands today.  I may have to cut some things - for length, not for sense.  It's parity that no one understands.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Matt H. on March 24, 2004, 08:25:36 PM
Well, I have to say that I wasn't particularly surprised by the outcome of tonight's AMERICAN IDOL but I was somewhat disappointed. (More about that tomorrow.) But, just like last week, there was one BIG shockeroo among the Bottom Three. And the fact that this week's bottom three was totally diffferent from last week's bottom three was also significant. Fans of those two saved last week must have called in in force to assure their favorites another week to sing.

Moral: Fans can't get complacent about their favorites. If you want them to stay in, you have to vote.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: TCB on March 24, 2004, 08:47:42 PM
I'll bet you could get a flight from Washington to Pennsylvania, TCB....

Are you kidding?  I can't even afford a cross-town bus ticket.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: td on March 24, 2004, 08:56:08 PM
Are you kidding?  I can't even afford a cross-town bus ticket.

So, what's stopping you from doing a Claudette Colbert? ? ?
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan (the Man) on March 24, 2004, 09:00:05 PM
More movies that made me cry, or at least sucker punched me into a huge sob:

Ordinary People
Places in the Heart
Field of Dreams
Country
Empire of the Sun
Dead Poets Society
The Color Purple
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Ron Pulliam on March 24, 2004, 09:10:14 PM
DR MattH may not have been surprised by tonight's "American Idol" results, but I was...and more than shocked and disappointed.

Only one of those three deserved to go...and didn't.  Only one of those three cannot carry a tune to save her life...and hasn't.
Only one of those three will compete again next week...and totally destroy another song.

Simon's comment about not being surprised at the two women in the bottom three confirms for me that Simon has no use for one whom Randy and Paula continue to praise...and with valid, solid reason. Simon is always very catty about her and says nothing about her performances.

But that's all right.  I have my "Jerry Goldsmith at 20th Century-Fox" 6-CD boxed set to warm my heart.  

TCB:  Do we need to take a collection????
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan (the Man) on March 24, 2004, 09:16:26 PM
Are you kidding?  I can't even afford a cross-town bus ticket.

My List of Potential Sugar Daddies
Ian McKellen
Richard Hatch
Gore Vidal
TCB
Edward Albee
Bruce Webber
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: SwishySarah on March 24, 2004, 09:19:47 PM
Quick remark:

Last night I said something along the lines that BK should stop damning people to hell.

I suppose I should stop trying to be sarcastic when I'm not in a good mood.

It was not meant seriously, I know BK always says that, and I know it's from Planet of the Apes, and I know that it sounded rude and annoyed.

I know.

Purely an accident. Whoops!

I heart HHW and everyone, damn them all to hell.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Dan (the Man) on March 24, 2004, 09:41:41 PM
I heart HHW and everyone, damn them all to hell.

Sarah, I've only know you a short time but I know you didn't mean anything mean last night.  You're far too lovely a soul.

Sarcasm is usually difficult to convey on message boards or newsgroup unless everyone is hep to the same kind of delimiting of words.  Usually I see it done with the sarcastic words surrounded by asterisks, as in "Oh, yeah--that's a *really* good explaination of how to do sarcasm."  This could, of course, be followed by a <haughty smirk> (I don't think we have a smiley here for haughty smirks.)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 10:16:53 PM
Lovely posts all.  Had a good time tonight, and you'll hear all about it in tomorrow's notes.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: bk on March 24, 2004, 10:47:56 PM
We've had an Attack of the Wussburgers!
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Jed on March 24, 2004, 11:16:16 PM
Alright, finally caught up on all of today's posts!

First off, Pink Tafetta Sample Size 10 is probably my favorite song from any of the Lost In Boston CDs.  Simply love it.

I've never been one to cry at movies.  Not due to any "boys don't cry" conditioning or anything, just not my nature.  Still, I have been known to tear up a bit from time to time.  First one that comes to mind at the moment is Sophie's Choice.  A few episodes of M*A*S*H will get me now and then, too.  Oh, and I do remember crying at My Girl when it came out.  I was probably 12 or so, and had never cried at a movie before... rather surprised me! :)
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 11:23:08 PM
Dan-in-TO - I'm glad to see that the Canadian Jewish News is as good as ever.

Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Panni on March 24, 2004, 11:28:42 PM
Noel mentioned MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS in the tears department... I agree.  Judy Garland is so beautiful and just breaks your heart. As does little Margaret O'Brien.
Title: Re:SHUFFLE/BALL/CHANGE
Post by: Laura II on March 24, 2004, 11:29:42 PM
Oh, Jed, I love My Girl!! Yeah, I think I probably cried at that and My Girl 2.