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Author Topic: THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM  (Read 36594 times)

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Panni

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2004, 08:30:00 AM »

Interesting topic. Devilled clams might be easier to deal with, but I’ll give it a shot…
I’ve said “I love you” – in the romantic sense - very few times in my life. For me that’s HUGE – to feel it, to say it. (My daughter and I say “I love you” each time we end a phone conversation, but that, of course, is a very different kind of love.)
I certainly can’t explain being in love. Why it happens, why it happens with one particular (or peculiar) person. That be a mystery to me, folks.
I know what being in love ISN’T. It’s not “You complete me.”
It’s NOT...
A feeling deep in your soul
Says you were half,
Now you're whole.

If you’re using another person to fill in the missing part of the jigsaw puzzle that’s you – it ain't gonna work. I think that loving someone means that they become a part of you – of the person you already are. You feel their joys, their sorrows, their “being” as you feel your own. Not that you lose yourself in them – quite the opposite actually – you become bigger, more open. I don’t like the cliché, but it’s true – you open your heart. And that’s a hard thing to do. But once you do, it's a wonderful feeling. (This description takes for granted, of course, that the love is returned.)

As for falling out of love… Yes, it happens. People change. Life sometimes takes strange turns. If it happens overnight, however, IMHO it wasn’t really love. (Unless it’s something cataclysmic – like your lover shot you in the thigh. That might end that warm fuzzy feeling real fast.)

I’ll talk about friendship later. And more about romantic love later. I must dry my hair, have breakfast and get ready for a meeting.
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Noel

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2004, 09:04:01 AM »

It isn't that love means never having to say you're sorry.  I apologize, constantly, to all sorts of people, regardless of my regard for them (?).  Love means you may actually be forgiven.

Last Thursday, for instance, I used Tide with Bleach Alternative to do the laundry.  I had very little time to do the laundry that day (a show that night) and couldn't find the Tide Free fast enough.  Well, all these days later the Dear Wife is itching so much she can't sleep on the sheets.  It was totally unforgivable, and yet
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bk

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2004, 09:15:28 AM »

I LOVE these posts.  I think people have hit the nail on the head - people overuse and abuse the word itself.  Frequently, two people meet, they feel passion, they connect, there's a frisson, they say I love you, they marry, and three weeks later they split up (happens in Hollywoodland all the time).  Were they in love?  Not if love means what I'm hearing here.  It would simply be impossible to be in love and then not be in love three weeks later.  
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Ron Pulliam

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2004, 09:18:14 AM »

I think "loving" something or someone is way different from "being 'in' love" with someone (or something).

I love many things and haven't a qualm about using the word.  

But I've probably told only two people, "I'm in love with you."

Let's talk about the way the British have trampled the word "brilliant" until it means anything BUT something that is brilliant!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2004, 09:18:34 AM by RLP »
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VinTek

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2004, 09:22:52 AM »

Love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking outward together in the same direction.

That's a quote by Antoine de Saint Exupéry that I have never forgotten.

BTW BK, I picked up the Haines His Way CD from my parents' house (where I have all my packages shipped) this past weekend.  Thanks ever so much.  It's good to hear it again and my wife is going through the thrill of discovery.  She thinks Guy ought to do much more recording.
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bk

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2004, 09:32:39 AM »

Thanks, VinTek and thanks to your wife, who I enjoyed meeting very much.

When I was doing Twiggy's album, every time I'd make suggestions on the arrangements, and every time I'd give her direction, she replied "Brilliant."  I chose to believe her, of course.  Then I noticed that other folks from the UK were doing it, too, but that has been much more recently.  So, maybe Twiggs started the trend.  And, in any case, when Twiggs says "Brilliant" to you, it is thoroughly endearing and sweet and one's head turns all mushy.
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Noel

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2004, 09:45:25 AM »

I can't believe I've finally caught up on the posts of the past week.  So much to read.  So much to respond to.

It moved me to read how many of you would have a residence here in New York if you had unlimited funds.  I'm a pauper and can't, for the life of me, understand why someone (not on this board) advised Danise to avoid the subways.  For what you'd pay for a round trip cab ride, get yourself an unlimited 7-day Metrocard that allows you on any bus or subway.  Subways are often faster than cabs, who must deal with traffic.  The subway has a huge police force all its own, often undercover, so you're never more than a few feet away from a cop.  You won't see graffiti, most trains are very clean, and subway crime is exceedingly rare.  (Of course, when something does happen, it's big news, but that's because it's rare, like man bites dog.)

From your hotel to Joe's Pub take the yellow line, the N or the R, downtown from Times Square to 8th Street.  From there, walk a short block east and look down Lafayette for the Public Theatre (a beautiful old library building, with banners).

I'm not a bakery-goer.  But I've always liked Taylor's for muffins.  They're on Hudson Street in the West Village, a neighborhood no one could fail to be charmed by.  In lieu of a wedding cake, Joy and I had a tiered stack of cupcakes from Crumbs, on Amsterdam in the mid-seventies.

Henry Street Henry is just about the only recording in my collection of show albums I can't stand to play.

Musicals I'd like to see: Do I Hear a Waltz would move me another step closer to Sondheim completeness, especially if Encores does Anyone Can Whistle, which I've also not seen.  I've read both scripts and played through every note of the scores, and I find much to admire in ...Waltz.  I'd also like to see Fanny, Top Banana and Me & Juliet.

Musical festivals I won't be entering: The New York Musical Theatre Festival (that Penny O is entering).  A $50 entrance fee?  Music must be submitted on CD?  What, do they think I'm made of money?  I'm picturing they'll get about 1000 submissions and produce 18 shows on a budget of way less than $50,000 and make a tidy profit.

Watched Big Fish last night - one of Joy's favorites.  Seems to me a story about the virtues of story-telling is an instance of a writer patting himself on the back, saying "aren't storytellers wonderful?"  The problem is, the stories spun by the Albert Finney character are largely uncompelling.  A good ending but a really long wait.

I'm busy writing incidental music for a play that opens a week from Sunday.  But I hope to avoid getting so behind on my post-reading again.
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William F. Orr

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2004, 09:53:08 AM »

It's I do and you don't and nobody said that and who brought the subject up first.

And (oh, an A Chorus Line reference!) DR Noel, I think your Tide With Bleach story sums it up very well.  I'm impressed you guys learned that the first year of marriage.  It took us much longer.
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DearReaderLaura

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2004, 09:54:09 AM »

This morning I went into my backyard, and this is what I saw:
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Ron Pulliam

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2004, 10:07:12 AM »

I don't know if any of you are ready for this or not.

I wasn't.

http://cbs2chicago.com/zwecker/local_story_120180254.html

(Larry Wachowski, one of two brothers who co-produced "The Matrix" and sequels, is reportedly going to have a sex change operation, has been cross-dressing for some time, and there is a relationship with a dominatrix mixed in here somewhere).
« Last Edit: May 04, 2004, 10:08:52 AM by RLP »
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Jennifer

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2004, 10:11:17 AM »

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Jennifer

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2004, 10:22:23 AM »

Can we have a late Page Two dance?

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Ron Pulliam

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2004, 10:25:30 AM »

[move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%]Yes-s-s-s-s-s-s[/move]


[move=up,scroll,6,transparent,100%]Dance.........[/move]

[move=right,scroll,6,transparent,100%].....my Precious-s-s-s-s-s-s..........[/move]


[move=down,scroll,6,transparent,100%]....danc-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-e....[/move]



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Noel

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2004, 10:27:40 AM »

Is the woman in the red dress Paul Daley's mom?
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Jennifer

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2004, 10:31:32 AM »

Will you kill me if I ask who Paul Daley is?
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S. Woody White

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2004, 10:38:40 AM »

I just got back from Amazon.com and saw that Sondheim's BOUNCE is now available. I had no idea it was now in release. Of course, the list price is $19.98! (slightly lower Amazon price but still too high for a single CD). We do pay a premium price for cast albums of unsuccessful shows, don't we?
No, we pay a premium for discs released on the Nonesuch label.

Which is strange, because when I was in college they were considered a very good but budget priced cassical label.
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There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do.

bk

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2004, 10:48:48 AM »

Jennifer: Some fine day you'll get around to the Kritzer books and then you will have your answer.
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Charles Pogue

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2004, 10:57:41 AM »

A few musings on love:

Love, like anything else in this world worth having, requires work.  It is not temporary passion, obsession, lust.  It requires sacrifice, patience, and forgiveness.  It weathers the bad patches.

It also requires self-love.  No one can truly love anyone unless he first loves himself.

There is no such thing as unconditional love...maybe from a baby (but that is more need); possibly from a dog (but I suspect even a dog that is beaten enough will run or bite back).  But two mature people always have conditions. Everyone has a bottom line.  And that is good.  Love must always have a bottom line.

One of my favourite  quotes about love is from the movie DODSWORTH: "Love has got to stop somewhere short of suicide."

That does not mean love doesn't get messy or angry at times.  

I also loved Donald Sutherland's scene with Mary Tyler Moore in Ordinary People when he tells her: "You could never stand the mess."

A couple more quotes about love:

From THE REAL THING by Tom Stoppard:

"I use you because you love me. I love you so use me.  Be indulgent, negligent, preoccupied, premenstrual...your credit is infinite, I'm yours,  I'm committed...It's no trick loving someone at their best. Love is loving them at their worst."

From Oscar Wilde's THE IDEAL HUSBAND: "It is not the perfect, but the imperfect who have need of love. It is when we are wounded by our own hands or by the hands of others, that love should come to cure us --  else what use is love at all? All sins, except the sin against itself, love should forgive.  All lives, save loveless lives, love should pardon."

And perhaps Mr. Porter put it best:

I am dejected,
I am depressed,
Yet ressurrected
And sailing the crest
Why this elation,
Mixed with deflation?
What explanation?
I am in love!
Such conflicting questions ride
Around in my brain,
Should I order cyanide
Or order champagne?
Oh, what is this sudden jolt?
I feel like a frightened colt,
Just hit by a thunderbolt,
I am in love!
I knew the odds
Were against me before.
I had no flair
For flaming desire,
But since the gods
Gave me you to adore,
I may lose
But I refuse to fight the - fire!
So come and enlighten my days
And never depart.
You only can brighten the blaze
That burns in my heart.
For I am wildly in love with you,
And so in need of
A stampede of
Love!

P.S., td, I...as a screenwriter...try to use the words "I love you" as rarely as possible.  There are so many more interesting ways to express the emotion.
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td

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2004, 11:14:14 AM »

Quote
P.S., td, I...as a screenwriter...try to use the words "I love you" as rarely as possible.  There are so many more interesting ways to express the emotion.

Which is one of the many reasons that YOU are a good screenwriter.  And a great part of the HHW family.
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S. Woody White

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2004, 11:15:46 AM »

I think that infatuation can prepare us for love.  

I remember that feeling eons back when I first met Jason, the first man in my life.  He was strong, handsome, agressive, filled with cameraderie, and playing pool at a bar called Larry's and wiping out his opposition, and I was instantly infatuated.  He must have picked up on that, because he very soon came over and started up a conversation, which led to later that night...  Of course, he adored being adored, no fool he.  And he did respond, as best he could, and we were together for a total of six months.

The problem was that he didn't want to really be tied down, well, not emotionally.  So he left.

A couple of pals of ours told me that people who fall out of love can never be friends.  They didn't stick around for the second act.  Jason and I were pretty soon back in contact with each other, and for several years were the very best of friends, almost brothers.  And it was during that period that we loved each other.

If I hadn't been queer-bashed, if he hadn't been forced into a position where he had to acknowledge that he couldn't protect me, we would probably still be brothers.  That was the deal breaker.  He moved to San Francisco not too long after that.

It took me a few years to get over him.
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There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do.

elmore3003

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2004, 11:25:45 AM »

Today's TOD is producing some amazing posts to which I wish I could add something but I can't find it, a quote from Lillian Hellman on Dashiel Hammett, either from PENTIMENTO or AN UNFINISHED WOMAN.  So, I'll say this:  I'm listening to  "Here You Come Again" on HAINES HIS WAY as I type this, and I love it, as I love my Dear Friend BK, Guy Haines, and several other wonderful people around the globe.
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S. Woody White

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2004, 11:38:23 AM »

On the other hand, der Brucer and I weren't infatuated with each other, I don't think.  Heck, even he would admit he was looking for someone to sleep with that first night.  So was I.  Tawdry?  Maybe.  But it was pretty damn good sex.

It was the following morning that turned things around.  His job required a certain degree of military awareness, and there were troubles in the MidEast even back then.  He took me to breakfast, after a softball practice that I had to attend that got rained out (yes, he followed me to the practice), and as we sat over our eggs and hash browns he started talking about all that military stuff, or what he could without getting into what was labeled top secret.  And I listened.  About half of the tech stuff he was talking about went right over my head.  And he told me he wanted to see me again, if he could the next weekend.

That next weekend, he was a little late getting to the bar where we were to meet.  It was only appropriate, since the bar was sponsoring the softball team.  That would turn out to be part of our pattern: he's always late.   :-\  And we clicked as well the second time as we had the first (only this time, there was an actual softball game).

I had a three-day weekend the next week, while he had to go to work, so I stayed at his place and relaxed while he was gone.  Before going to bed that first night of the weekend, I left a note for him on the dining room table, saying "I think I'm in love with you."  The following morning, I found he had added to the note "I think I have the same problem."

It's been eightteen years.  He's still talking, and I'm still listening, and sometimes we trade off.  Besides, he likes my cooking.  And sometimes we argue, but we don't fight.  And we do tell each other that we're sorry sometimes, but don't demand those appologies.

Panni, I agree that people who are looking for someone else to make them complete are going about finding love in the wrong way.  But that's not what happened with der Brucer and myself.  We instead found each other filling in gaps we didn't know we each had.
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There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do.

S. Woody White

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2004, 11:39:37 AM »

This is all your fault, BK, getting me back in storytelling mode!

 :o


 ;D



 :-*
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There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do.

Jrand69

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2004, 11:46:58 AM »

Well Mr Kenny Miller, star of film and television, confirmed by email today that the man sitting beside Ms Connie Stevens and advertising that he is open for business is indeed Mr John Ashley.  He thinks the other girl is Jill Haworth, but he is not sure, and he does not know who the gentleman with her is.

He said that it was a party for Mr Dick Clark.  And I would think that not one person at that table was thinking of love.  :o
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Jrand69

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2004, 11:48:29 AM »

John Ashley of course originally sang EEEEE-OOOOOOOOO and Mr Kenny Miller sang EENY MEENY MINEY MO.
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Jrand69

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2004, 11:49:20 AM »

Here is your Allison Hayes picture of the week.  A lovely tinted still from MOHAWK - soon to be released on DVD!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2004, 12:04:10 PM by JRand53 »
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Ann

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2004, 11:49:47 AM »

The advice about love has been given to me by my mother.  When I was younger, she told me that loving someone means that what you want most for them is for them to be happy, even if means letting them go.  More recently, she taught me that expecting to find a person who fills our every need is not only impossible, but unfair, and will only set yourself up for heartbreak.

I agree wholeheartedly that "love" is a term thrown around far too casually these days.  I rarely use that word unless I truly mean it.  I also believe that there is more than one kind of love.  Very recently I had to explain to someone that while I did love them very much, I was not IN love with them, no matter how much they wanted me to be.  It was perhaps one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, but it was necessary.  

Also, in spite of what we see in the movies, sometimes love is NOT enough.  Love does not cure all evils and right all wrongs.  Love is tough, love is messy.  But it is also the greatest ability we have as human beings, and part of what makes us what we are.  I took a class last semester where we talked about Articifical Intelligence, and whether it was possible.  My teacher believed that someday we will be able to completely build a fake human being.  I don't think so.  I don't believe the ability to love has a built in mathematical equation.  
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Jennifer

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2004, 11:56:51 AM »

We are in widescreen.
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Panni

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2004, 11:59:08 AM »

I'm so enjoying reading these posts!

SWW - Love your love story.

FS Pogue - Wonderful quotations. Esp. Tom Stoppard. I LOVE Tom Stoppard. He's BRILLIANT. (Sorry, couldn't resist. But I do think very highly of Mr. Stoppard's writing. and he actually is worthy of being called briliant.)
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Jennifer

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Re:THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2004, 12:00:33 PM »

Let's go to Page Three.
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