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Author Topic: THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW  (Read 19750 times)

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bk

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THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« on: June 26, 2004, 12:00:19 AM »

Well, you've read the brief notes, you've briefed yourself on the brief notes and now that you are briefed it is time to post until the cows come home.  To it, I say.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2004, 12:04:37 AM by bk »
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Tomovoz

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2004, 12:19:07 AM »

By coincidence I was discussing a few hours ago my dislike of "Sweet Charity". I have not seen the show but I prefer the score of "The Life".
From charity I do like "Where Am I going?".

I certainly enjoy the Randy Graff Cd of the Coleman songs. I am also fond of a Peggy Lee album I have of Coleman songs.
Of the non show songs "Firefly","Witchcraft" and "the Best Is Yet To Come" are favourites and I also like "Doodlin' Song" a lot.
The show I  know the least of - just never play it - is " The Will Rogers Follies".My favourite Coleman score is "Barnum".
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Panni

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2004, 12:29:43 AM »

I'm just posting to say hello because I wasn't home to post -- but now I am. That's about it. G'night.
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S. Woody White

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2004, 12:51:05 AM »

I'm going to have to counter Tomovoz here, because I love much of the Sweet Charity score.  I think he had a great writing partner in Dorothy Fields.  "Big Spender," "There's Gotta Be Something Better than This," "The Rhythm of Life," "Where Am I Going?" and "I'm a Brass Band" are all great songs.  And "Pink Taffeta Sample Size 10" has grown on me.  A lot.

From Seesaw, I'll go for "Nobody Does It Like Me," "Welcome to Holiday Inn," "He's Good For Me," "It's Not Where You Start," and "I'm Way Ahead."

That's two shows.  I'll leave the rest to everyone else (no sense in hogging everything Coleman has done).
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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2004, 12:52:55 AM »

I must wuss.  There's shopping for ingredients to do tomorrow...uh, today.  So many dishes, so little time.  Whatever.
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Tomovoz

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2004, 01:00:00 AM »

I suspect it was the film that turned me off "Sweet Charity" - especially "The Rhythm Of Life" and "I'm A Brass Band".
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Charles Pogue

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2004, 01:24:42 AM »

Favourite Cy Coleman song:  You Fascinate Me So!

From last night:  Noel, Equity...like any union...many not be perfect and may have its problems, but most talent unions problems these days stem from a non-union atmosphere, conglomerates buying conglomerates and only looking at the bottom line and quarterly financial report, and, in the case of film, paying stars outrageous prices and lowballing everybody else. (This probably happens in non-union stage tours too...Let's go non-union so we can pay John Davidson or Barry Williams some outrageous weekly fee.)

The middle-class actor, writer, director, composer...just like the middle class everywhere...is slowly being squeezed out of existence by this concerted effort to break the unions or make them ineffectual.  And all it will mean in the end is that some CEO will be taking home 10-50 mill a year and all the underlings below will get screwed.  It will also mean shorter careers for everybody.  I've had over a twenty year career in my line.  If things continue the way they're progressing in this anti-union climate, those coming after me will be lucky to get fifteen or ten.  Ten years ain't a career in anything.  You can't support a family or buy a house with that sort of limited future staring you in the face.

But, Hell, we're in the Arts.  One can be out of work for six months in our business and it have nothing to do with the Unions.  It's just the whimsey and risk of the business we're in.  Get used to it, make provisions for it, expect it at sometime or another, and get over it...or find another line of work.  

So, yeah, Asian actors may not be able to get enough Union work.  But that's not the Union's job or fault.  Chances are Asian actors are always going to have problems getting consistent work, despite so-called colour-blind casting, simply because of the prejudices inherent in hiring practices and commercial considerations, and, sorry, but because of rigid audience expectations and acceptance (or non-acceptance...a bunch of Nebraska tourists coming to see them there New York shows aren't likely to pick ones about Asians or Blacks or Homosexuals...they'll go see some Disney or Lloyd Webber tripe).

But actors who think that leaving the union will allow them to work more for more money are being very short-sighted and foolish.  It may allow them to work more in the short-term, but not the long-term.  And certainly not for better wages. It will not assure them of safe and better working conditions. It will not give them even a hope of health care or a pension plan (and thanks to Mr. Bush and his big business regime and slimy insurance companies and greedy HMOs, all Unions are getting hit in their health care plans...WGA's health care only a few short years ago was superb...it's still better than most, but it's taken some bad hits...and at least we've still got one which a non-union writing gig won't give you).  

And when their short-term careers are over, what will these actors do then?  As a member of Equity, Sag, Aftra, WGA, and the Dramatists Guild, the only way any talent can have a long-term sustaining career in any of these disciplines and make a decent living wage with some chance at benefits is to be in the Union.

I'm so tired of actors who can't get work, blaming their unions because they can't get past an audition (The same with writers who can't get a gig...no one ever thinks it might just be because they aren't that good  It's always got to be someone else's fault that they can't cut the mustard.  Hey!  It's show biz!  No one said it was going to be fair and that everyone gets a chance.)

Unfortunately, too many people in creative careers expect their Union or Guild to be a hiring hall for them.  Not the idea.  They're not there to get you work.  You have to rely on your talent for that.  But once you do get work, they'll you some protection and decent working conditions that you'd have no guarantee of working non-union.

Okay, so it doesn't work the way it should all the time, but just because some touring show paid a cast (and probably only the stars, not all the cast) better than when they worked under Equity, I bet nothing was getting put into a pension fund or going for health coverage of any kind.  And it won't happen every time out.

And if/or when non-Union tours break the Unions, then they'll start paying Wal-mart wages, giving you longer hours, and no rehearsal play.

I know when I was working in Equity dinner theatres, I didn't have to wait tables and fetch drinks for customers during intermission like my fellows did in Non-equity dinner theatre.  I was an actor; not a waiter who acted when he wasn't fetching and carrying for the audience.

When I played a small role in the Ahmanson in 1980, I was making 750 dollars a week, had my own dressing-room, and had my health insurance covered for six months.  Pretty good I thought.

Now if you want to talk about how IATSE featherbeds and undermines their Union and jacks up the expenses on a production with unnecessary workers and not allowing an actor to move a chair in rehearsal, then I'll agree with you.  But the gains for most creative talent don't go into such wasteful extremes and are fair and reasonable.

Having served on the Board of the WGA for four years, I can tell you most bitches and whines about the union come from talentless losers who can't get a job or from employers or people who can't get into the union but want to be in it.

« Last Edit: June 26, 2004, 01:30:35 AM by Charles Pogue »
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Michael

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2004, 05:33:20 AM »

Wildcat: Hey Look Me Over

Little Me: On the Other Side of the Tracks. Be a Performer

Sweet Charity: Where Am I Going? The Rhythmn of Life

See Saw: Welcome to the Holiday Inn

I Love My Wife: Hey There Good Times

On the 20th Century: Our Private World (My Favorite of his songs)

Barnum: The Museum Song

City of Angel: With Every Breath I Take (Always felt that this song should be better known)

Will  Rodgers Follies: None. My least favorite of his shows

The Life: You are My Only Friend

and
13 Weeks To Broadway: You There In The Backrow




« Last Edit: June 26, 2004, 05:34:12 AM by Michael Shayne »
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Jrand73

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2004, 05:45:15 AM »

Cy Coleman....I like so much of his work.  But I will choose a song that has already been chosen:

HEY LOOK ME OVER! from Wildcat

and add, from CITY OF ANGELS:

WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT WOMEN
YOU'RE NOTHING WITHOUT ME
YOU CAN ALWAYS COUNT ON ME....

MR BK....please check out celebrity fashions today and give us the rundown....hopefully Carol Lynley has gotten something new besides that gold sweater!  And look for Miss Carroll Baker....nothing livens up the Collectors Show like rock 'em sock 'em Harlows!
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Matt H.

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2004, 05:53:50 AM »

Absolutely favorite Cy Coleman song of all-time:

"Lost and FOund" from CITY OF ANGELS


But I think SWEET CHARITY is his BEST score. I think it's the first Broadway show I saw that wasn't this huge spectacle (and I love HUGE Broadway shows like MAME), but Fosse seemed to strip it to essentials - great star, powerful singer/dancers, a catchy and rhythmic score. Things like flashy costumes and elaborate scenery just weren't that important. The show was still electrifying and at the end, supremely poignant.
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Matt H.

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2004, 05:58:02 AM »

Charles Pogue's mentioning of MISS SAIGON yesterday had me nodding in agreement. I think it is THE worst Broadway smash hit ever. Some day, I'm going to see the show done on an intimate scale as befits it slender story and maybe I might like it a little better. But I walked out of the Broadway Theater wanting my money back, and that hasn't hapenned to me too many times in my adult life. (AIDA comes closest followed by RENT.)
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Matt H.

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2004, 06:39:55 AM »

Hopefully today I'm going to try to make it out to a theater to see HARRY POTTER. Back later with views on it.
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Noel

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2004, 07:14:25 AM »

I agree with Matt H. that Sweet Charity is, by far,  Cy Coleman's best show and that the worst "hit" show I ever saw on Broadway was Miss Saigon (which, thank God, Coleman had nothing to do with).

My favorite Coleman is probably I Walk a Little Faster (not from a show)

I'm also fond of
Real Live Girl (Little Me)
If My Friends Could See Me Now (Sweet Charity)
There's Gotta Be Something Better Than This (Sweet Charity)
You There In the Back Row (13 Days to Broadway)
When In Rome, I Do As the Romans Do (not from a show)
the overture to On the 20th Century
Pass Me By (Father Goose)
Where Am I Going (Sweet Charity)
The Rhythm of Life (Sweet Charity)

In context, in City of Angels, the haunting With Every Breath I Take is a throwaway, makes no impression at all.  Out of context, it's a very fine song.

Joy said to me this week "all kinds of music is pouring out of you" (an I'm a Brass Band reference)
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Dan-in-Toronto

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2004, 07:19:56 AM »

There are loads of Cy Coleman favorites. Here are five:

Little Me: I've Got Your Number.

The Life: We Had a Dream.

On the Twentieth Century: Our Private World (especially Sally Mayes' version).

Sweet Charity: Where Am I Going?

Seesaw: I'm Way Ahead.

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Dan-in-Toronto

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2004, 07:22:21 AM »

Noel, I have to agree with you about the overture to On The Twentieth Century. I think Little Me's overture is equally good.
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Noel

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2004, 07:40:00 AM »

Equity...like any union...many not be perfect and may have its problems, but most talent unions problems these days stem from a non-union atmosphere,

My guess - and it's just a guess - is that you're applying stuff that's true of the Writers Guild to Actors Equity.  These unions are hardly comparable.  (I must admit someone close to me, at the time, was president of WGA many years ago.)  WGA doesn't go around disparaging non-union screenplays.  They trust that talent will out.  AEA does all sorts of things that ensure that fewer shows will be produced and therefore fewer of its members will find work.

A non-Equity and an Equity show could employ the same number of actors at the same salary and the Equity show might still have quadruple the budget.  You have to pay an Equity member extra if you want him to wear his own shoes.  A long-running hit like The Donkey Show couldn't have made a profit using Equity performers.
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Noel

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2004, 07:45:48 AM »

But actors who think that leaving the union will allow them to work more for more money are being very short-sighted and foolish.  It may allow them to work more in the short-term, but not the long-term.  And certainly not for better wages.

I don't want to use a phrase like "You don't know what you're talking about" but in last night's post I described a man who is earning less money, now, for playing the same (lead) role in an Equity production than he did several years ago in the non-Equity production.

The actors who played the Engineer and Kim in Miss Saigon were neither short-sighted nor foolish.  They carefully weighed their decision, examining the financial picture, and saw that they'd earn more bucks, more frequently, if they gave up their Equity memberships.

I certainly hope they're putting away money for their pensions, though.
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bk

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2004, 07:48:11 AM »

Lots of great Coleman choices here.  I'm very fond of a song Peggy Lee introduced (I think) called Then was Then, Now is Now - really pretty.  I also like his song from The Heartbreak Kid, which isn't well-known.
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Matt H.

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2004, 07:51:06 AM »

I do love the score to ON THE TWENTIETH CENTURY in the context of the show. I find I don't play the cast CD all that much. I much more often play SWEET CHARITY, LITTLE ME, and CITY OF ANGELS.

I would still one day like to hear the score to WELCOME TO THE CLUB. I know the show was ghastly, but others have said the score had some very good songs in it.
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Noel

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2004, 07:55:10 AM »

I'm so tired of actors who can't get work, blaming their unions because they can't get past an audition
Hey, we agree!  I'm tired of that too.  And am glad nobody's blaming their union here.

As an auditioning actor, it's much much better to be a member of Actors Equity.  Many shows have union casting calls, attended by the director, producer and casting people.  And then they have a non-union casting call, attended by some assistant to the assistant to the casting person and that's it.

So, you have to conclude it helps to be an Equity member at try-outs.  Oh, and one also might logically conclude that through this system, sometimes the best person doesn't get the role.  If the best person happens to be non-Equity, chances are the best Equity person gets the role.  So the audiences suffers.
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bk

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2004, 07:55:58 AM »

I'm up bright and early this morning, aren't I?  I've already shaved, figured out my pricing sheet and printed it out, got my cashbox and I'm rarin' to go.  Or, as Irving Berlin might have written:

Got my cashbox
Got my stuff
Books and photos
I'll sell enough
To have the cash in the morning
And the cash at night

DVDs and
Some CDs, too
Pay enough
I'll go home with you
I've got the cash in the morning
And the cash at night

I'll be
Sitting there all day long
Singing
This rather stupid song

Buy a photo
Buy a book
Or just come by
And take a look
And I'll have cash in the morning
And I'll have cash at night
And with some cash in the morning
And some cash in the evening
I'm all right.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2004, 07:56:56 AM by bk »
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Noel

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2004, 08:01:15 AM »

When I played a small role in the Ahmanson in 1980, I was making 750 dollars a week, had my own dressing-room, and had my health insurance covered for six months.  Pretty good I thought.

If you were playing a small role in the Ahmanson today you'd be earning $27 more a week, not have your own dressing room, and no health insurance unless you worked a certain number of weeks.  It's been 24 years.  Do you still think that's pretty good?
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bk

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2004, 08:12:14 AM »

Not sure about anything other than he'd have his own dressing room if it was a small enough cast to do so.  The Center Theater Group has always been great about that and it has nothing to do with the union at all.  I have had my own beef with Equity's inability to bend or be helpful, in terms of cast albums - in fact, until I (and a couple of others who joined in after) finally made a big enough stink, it was a prime reason why some Broadway shows went unrecorded.  I feel the same about the AFM - they do not do their members a service when their management behaves like some hit squad (I'm speaking of NY here - LA management has always been helpful).
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bk

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2004, 08:18:57 AM »

More on the AFM - although I receive no credit for this (nor was I alone in the fight, but I was REALLY vocal) - it is no secret that when I did the first two years' worth of CDs we did them non-union, and our union musicians did them because they loved doing the sessions, the work was steady and the pay was decent.  No prob in LA, but in NY they hounded us like mad.  But it was never "How can we get you to do these union - how can we work together".  It was always let's bust these guys and then brag about it in our newsletter.  It was disgusting.  They had a low budget album plan but the main part of that plan made no sense and that is all I was asking them to change - the number of CDs sold that constituted low budget.  The rates were okay - because when you added the pension and welfare and such, it basically came out to what we were paying anyway - but if you sold over a certain amount then you had to pony up the rest of the dough.  The certain amount was way too low and one couldn't recoup.  I finally had a conversation with the head of the union and said I would NEVER record in NY again if they didn't change the number of CDs.  My musicians also raised a big stink, and they finally changed the number of CDs you could sell to a much more reasonable number - and yes, it was all their idea to "help" their members.  It only took me two years to have "their" idea implemented.  And guess what?  People who were doing non-union sessions suddenly started taking advangtage of the low budget scale album rates.  Including me.  
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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2004, 08:19:50 AM »

BK - Hope you get loads of cash in the morning and cash at night. Looks like you'll be in good company - Betsy Palmer, Ann Jeffreys, Heidi Fleiss, Marilyn Chambers, Tommy Sands, and Lee Meriwether. Lee Meriwether was at the Stratford Festival recently for the opening of her husband Marshall Borden's play (Count of Monte Cristo). Her photo was in the paper, and she looks more beautiful than ever.

http://www.hollywoodcollectorshow.com/garlan.htm


« Last Edit: June 26, 2004, 08:28:42 AM by Dan-in-Toronto »
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Panni

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2004, 08:35:39 AM »

Good morning. Merde to bk at the Collectors Showcase. I could do that as a haiku, I guess. but I won't.
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Panni

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2004, 08:40:33 AM »

Must go and shower - but saw FAHRENHEIT 9/11 last night. Very powerful. More later. I've never seen an audience as electrified. The applause at the end of the film went on - strongly - for a good three minutes or more. And this was just a regular showing. Every showing at the multiplex I attended was sold out -- they added two more screenings - one around midnight - and there was a huge line-up for that one when we came out. I believe the film will be Number 1 at the box office for the weekend . Unprecedented for a documentary.
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S. Woody White

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2004, 08:53:16 AM »

For anyone out there who isn't sure who Cy Coleman is, I've found a link to his bio (and discography and on and on) at the Songwriter's Hall of Fame.

He's an interesting performer in his own right.  Or is that in his own wright?  He guests on An Evening with Dorothy Fields, and I'd tell you what songs he sings with his lyricist/friend but der Brucer has so bolluxed the filing for our CD collection that I can't find it, damn it.  
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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2004, 08:54:48 AM »

I have not yet heard from anyone who pledged $10 towards the $50 Pulitzer Prize submission fee for KRITZER TIME.  If I absolutely have to I'll pay it all myself, but the original idea was that other DRs would contribute.  Please e-mail me and I will let you know where to send it.

BK - Did they have the rain curtain at the end of 110?  I first saw this show with most of the originasl cast in Chicago.  The curtain looked awful from the 2nd balcony.  Unless the show plays in a one level theatre where it looks okay, this effect is almost laughable and ends an otherwise great show on a silly effect aimed strictly at the top-priced seats.
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S. Woody White

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Re:THE HOLLYWOOD COLLECTOR'S SHOW
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2004, 08:57:41 AM »

Over the years, I've heard dozens (at least) of complaints from actors that it's "impossible" to get into the union if you aren't in a show, and that it's "impossible" to get in a show if you aren't in the union.  

Just how true is that?
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There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do.
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