Topic: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? (Read 42609 times)

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #180 on:** February 25, 2004, 08:45:07 PM »

Quote from: Panni on February 25, 2004, 06:18:06 PM

Oh yes, the DANGER of same sex marriages and what they do to our fair land must be stopped at all cost.

Does allowing gays to marry threaten the institution of marriage?

If you really think about it, the answer is an unequivocal yes.

If you’re straight and married, you’ve almost certainly got gay people to thank for it. Wedding planners, florists, clothiers, hairstylists, caterers, priests: it’s no mere stereotype that these professions abound in gay folk, and your wedding would have been drab if not impossible without them. Add to that the gay friends and officemates who make such a pleasant and positive fuss about your nuptials. And TV’s Queer Eye spiff-up squad is only a distillation of what gay people have been doing for ages: making straight men and women look desirable, or at least survivable, to each other so that they might hook up.

If gays were busy getting married themselves, do you think they’d have time to preen the rest of us? We’d all be back in the trailer park in our overalls, picking scabs off our unmoisturized faces and wondering why the phone doesn’t ring. It is only because gays can’t marry that they get caught up at all in the romance and filigree of heterosexual marriage, and they’d be off us like fleas off a wet dog if they could go to weddings that didn’t depend upon our breeder antics. It’s not just marriage, but the very survival of the species that depends upon gays being forcibly kept—by constitutional amendment, if need be—in their role as our eternal best men and bridesmaids.

der Brucer (no I didn't write it, it's just a teaser for a post and link I'll do tomorrow)

Matt H. · « **Reply #181 on:** February 25, 2004, 08:57:24 PM »

I just won't talk politics because I get too emotional and one is either preaching to the choir or shouting at a brick wall.

But our President has during the last year given me many, many reasons to be ashamed to be an American citizen.

I have had the laserdisc of THE DETECTIVE for quite a long time. As perverse as some of its ideas are, it was also almost LIBERAL in its politics compared to something like THE SERGEANT from the same era. It also showed men together more fully than we had seen in an American movie before and was absolutely spot-on in its picture of "the trucks" down on the Bowery at that time. Pretty bold images for 1968. To be fair, I thought it was more honest dealing with the times than the detestable FREEBIE AND THE BEAN or THE LAUGHING POLICEMAN of a few years later.

Charles Pogue · « **Reply #182 on:** February 25, 2004, 09:23:54 PM »

I actually posted a link by a fellow scribe of Panni's and mine last weekend on gay marriage, which I thought spoke quite eloquently to the matter. Here it is again: www.yankeefog.com/london/archives/000036html

Besides this issue, he now being advised to cut us baby boomers' social security. Between the boomers, the gays, the poor and down-trodden raped by his corporate cronies, there is no reason this guy should be president next time around. We have the votes. If he is relected, I fear for a further "nazification" of America and maybe a fascist far right Republican reign for the rest of my life. Why aren't people outraged that a judge of the highest court of the land arrogantly refuses to recuse himself in an obvious case of conflict of interest, when we have an attorney general who stomps on our civil liberties every day, when Kenneth Lay of Enron, the Prez's good buddy, is still not in jail, when Dick Cheney is so deep into the Haliburton handouts it just shows blatant contempt for America. They screamed rule of law when Clinton lied about a blow job. but they arrogantly lie about a war and oh, so many other things. WHERE IS THE RULE OF LAW NOW? WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #183 on:** February 25, 2004, 09:36:48 PM »

Quote from: elmore3003 on February 25, 2004, 07:41:00 PM

I wish I knew its authorship.

The Gator Gay-Straight Alliance claims credit for same:

12 Reasons Same-Sex Marriage will Ruin Society. (HTML)
Apparently our flyer (PDF) is also now an example of a "list gone wild:" it's turned up in people's blogs, AIM profiles, and email forwards.

der Brucer (still marveling at the internet's reach!)

Panni · « **Reply #184 on:** February 25, 2004, 09:38:47 PM »

Quote from: Charles Pogue on February 25, 2004, 09:23:54 PM

WHERE IS THE RULE OF LAW NOW? WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?

That's what I don't understand. Maybe things aren't bad enough yet? I saw people blown to bits when I was a kid because they stood up and said NO. They threw homemade bombs into tanks, marched against machine guns. The anger and outrage was palpable -- but it took decades for it to build, decades of outright dictatorship, of people disappearing in the middle of the night.
So, melodramatic as this may be, perhaps we need a bit more before the outrage actually makes itself felt.
Meanwhile, why the hell is Nader entering the race again? No Republican is going to vote for him. So all he's doing is taking away votes from Kerry or whoever the Democratic nominee is going to be.

Dan (the Man) · « **Reply #185 on:** February 25, 2004, 10:09:50 PM »

Wow! I just discovered the Quick-Reply form! How handy!

Seriously, though...while I don't want to seem to come off as a Pollyanna (not one of my better roles), there's really not that much of a threat of a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriages actually coming into being. Historically, amendments have only served to grant rights to individuals, not take them away (Prohibition being a possible exception, but then that was eventaully repealed.) Also, it takes a LOT of time and effort to get one of these babies passed--consider that in the two hundred year+ existance of our Constitution, there's only been twenty-seven changes. And while it sadly seems that that polls tell us that the majority of Americans are against gay marriages, there is likewise no polled majority in favor of a Constitutional ban.

Still, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't be outraged on this matter. Bush (or as I like to refer to him, Pubes) is using this heart-rendering issue strictly as an election tool, and that in itself is dispicable. It's time to tar and feather this fool and drive him and his ilk out of town.

JoseSPiano · « **Reply #186 on:** February 25, 2004, 10:23:43 PM »

Good evening!

DR SWW - Watching Alton Brown right now as I type.

As for the upcoming election and all the various issues... Let's get out there and vote! Let's get our there and get at least one friend to vote who hasn't voted before. Get your neighbors and co-workers to register to vote. That's the one truly depressing figure from the last election: the fact that Bush "won", and it was one of the lowest - if not the lowest - voter turn out in a "modern" election. *I'm sure DR DERBRUCER will have the exact figures.

Hmm... cashews... pistachios... macadamias....

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #187 on:** February 25, 2004, 10:25:00 PM »

Quote from: Matt H. on February 25, 2004, 08:57:24 PM

II have had the laserdisc of THE DETECTIVE for quite a long time. As perverse as some of its ideas are, it was also almost LIBERAL in its politics compared to something like THE SERGEANT from the same era.

Notes on The Detective from “The Celluloid Closet” by Vito Russo

In June 1968, Time announced that the “third sex” was making a determined bid for first place at the box office. “Unashamedly queer characters are everywhere!” Time screeched, pointing out that most of the homosexuals shown were “sadists, buffoons or psychopaths”. The power of the Code was at an end. In 1966, another drastic revision had divided films into those for mature and those for general audiences. Films such as The Sergeant, Reflections in a Golden Eye, The Fox, The Detective, and The killing of Sister George clearly contained adult material and it became apparent that the code had little or no control over them.
…
In 1967, screenwriter Abby Mann told the New York Times that “it’s easier to be accepted in our society as a murderer than as a homosexual,” and his next screen play, for Gordon Douglas’ The Detective (1968), had its roots in that observation. The film…starred Frank Sinatra as a tough but liberal (educated) detective who is faced with having to solve the brutal castration murder of a wealthy homosexual. Under pressure from his department to find the killer quickly and attain promotion, Sinatra…seduces a confession from an innocent gay beach bum. Later Sinatra discovers that he has sent an innocent man to the electric chair just because he was in a hurry and any homosexual would do. The real killer (William Windom), a closeted homosexual who murdered to keep his secret, commits suicide. His written confession says, “I was more ashamed of being a homosexual than a murderer.”…Thus the closet syndrome is held responsible for all three deaths of homosexual characters: an execution, a murder and a suicide.

der Brucer (who, having typing this extract once before for posting on "that other site", wishes he had a computerized version of the book - it has all sorts of great observations and well documented historical tid-bits)

Current observation: the courts have held that murderers on death row may marry - but not gay librarians.

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #188 on:** February 25, 2004, 10:47:04 PM »

Quote from: Panni on February 25, 2004, 09:38:47 PM

I saw people blown to bits when I was a kid because they stood up and said NO. They threw homemade bombs into tanks, marched against machine guns. The anger and outrage was palpable -- but it took decades for it to build, decades of outright dictatorship, of people disappearing in the middle of the night.

Yes, and the U.S. urged the Hungarians to rise up and implicitly promised support - until the Russian tanks came - then we hid our head in the sand and watched 20,000 Hungarians masacred and Hungary pulled back behind the Iron Curtain - not our finist hour!

der Brucer (who remembers it well because it was one of the catalysts that caused his Reserve Active Duty deferral to be rescinded - the others being the simulaneous Suez War and the mess in Guatamala)

JoseSPiano · « **Reply #189 on:** February 25, 2004, 10:49:37 PM »

Uh-oh - "Ice Castles" is on one of the HBO channels... get out the Kleenex!

Dan (the Man) · « **Reply #190 on:** February 25, 2004, 10:58:59 PM »

Quote from: DERBRUCER on February 25, 2004, 10:25:00 PM

The real killer (William Windom), a closeted homosexual who murdered to keep his secret, commits suicide.

I remember that movie now! There's a scene in which Windom is walking through some low-level warehouse district where gay men are shamefully cruising and making out. I was kind of skeezed out by the movie's depiction of this: a bunch of young, thin guys in woven turtlenecks tentively brushing their fingers over each other's arms and faces. It was really sleezy.

bk · « **Reply #191 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:04:07 PM »

The Detective is a totally strange film, but Sinatra is very good in it, as is Lee Remick (as always). The depiction of the gay people is so over-the-top you just can't take it seriously. But, if you remember that in 1968 this was still a fairly novel thing for a movie, it's amazing they went as far as they did.

bk · « **Reply #192 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:04:37 PM »

Oh, and another nice score by Jerry Goldsmith - sort of a precursor to Chinatown, theme-wise.

Panni · « **Reply #193 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:04:51 PM »

Quote from: DERBRUCER on February 25, 2004, 10:47:04 PM

Yes, and the U.S. urged the Hungarians to rise up and implicitly promised support - until the Russian tanks came - then we hid our head in the sand and watched 20,000 Hungarians masacred and Hungary pulled back behind the Iron Curtain

Yeah, I remember the radio on in the middle of the night in our apartment with the Prime Minister saying something like "We beg the free world to come and help us!" ...And suddenly the transmission ended as he was dragged off. Early that morning I heard the tanks rumbling in. My mother and stepfather packed us up to go down to the basement to take shelter. We were ldown there for days with rats running all over the place. And then all hell broke loose. Eventually our building was set on fire - no fire department. My stepfather and one of the janitors ran upstairs and broke into apartments, turning on taps. And so on... I don't know why I went into that before going to sleep 'cause I'll be up all night.

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #194 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:05:31 PM »

Quote from: JoseSPiano on February 25, 2004, 10:23:43 PM

Good evening!

it was one of the lowest - if not the lowest - voter turn out in a "modern" election. *I'm sure DR DERBRUCER will have the exact figures.

'Deed I do, but they don't support your position:

Year Voting Age Population Turnout % Turnout of VAP
2000 205,815,000 105,586,274 51.30%
1996 196,511,000 96,456,345 49.08%
1992 189,529,000 104,405,155 55.09%
1988 182,778,000 91,594,693 50.11%
1984 174,466,000 92,652,680 53.11%
1980 164,597,000 86,515,221 52.56%
1976 152,309,190 81,555,789 53.55%
1972 140,776,000 77,718,554 55.21%
1968 120,328,186 73,211,875 60.84%
1964 114,090,000 70,644,592 61.92%
1960 109,159,000 68,838,204 63.06%

So the 2000 turnout was higher than 2 of the last three elections.

der spoiler Brucer

Panni · « **Reply #195 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:06:16 PM »

Quote from: bk on February 25, 2004, 11:04:07 PM

The Detective is a totally strange film,

Abby Mann screenplay?

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #196 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:09:56 PM »

Quote from: Dan (the Man) on February 25, 2004, 10:58:59 PM

a bunch of young, thin guys in woven turtlenecks tentively brushing their fingers over each other's arms and faces. It was really sleezy.

Sleezy, but accurate (except there would have been lots of crotch grabbing too)

der Brucer (been there, seen it, done it)

Panni · « **Reply #197 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:10:24 PM »

It is very wet outside my little guest house - and everywhere else I assume. I still have to take the wonderdog out for his evening pee. Wish I had a little rowboat for him. If I suddenly stop posting, it's the power.

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #198 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:11:20 PM »

Quote from: Panni on February 25, 2004, 11:06:16 PM

Abby Mann screenplay?

Yes, see Post #187 above.

Panni · « **Reply #199 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:12:20 PM »

Quote from: DERBRUCER on February 25, 2004, 11:09:56 PM

der Brucer (been there, seen it, done it)

But surely not in a woven turtleneck?

JoseSPiano · « **Reply #200 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:18:45 PM »

Thanks DR DERBRUCER for the clarification and the figures... Maybe I was thinking of the recent state elections.. Which I know have been dismally attended.

Panni · « **Reply #201 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:20:20 PM »

Hard to imagine Abby Mann writing about this particular subject!
I was on a panel with him (a couple of years ago?) at the Museum of Television and Radio in LA. I posted about it last week I think - but gave the wrong title. It was "Television and the Holocaust." The same panel was held at the same time at the NY Museum of TV. But Arthur Miller was on that one. I tried to get them to put me on the NY panel, but no luck. Anyway, we were to give short opening remarks, then discussion with the moderator, then Q&A with the audience. Mann was the first to speak - and he had a prepared statement - many pages in length - which he just read. It was interesting, but it went on forever and he read it in a monotone.

Panni · « **Reply #202 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:25:46 PM »

I won't wuss out tonight. Will be a late night Denisthemenace. Not sleepy at all (Your fault, Der Brucer - don't get me talking about Hungary late at night!).

Panni · « **Reply #203 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:26:19 PM »

Only three of us left...

Panni · « **Reply #204 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:26:50 PM »

Only two. I scared der Brucer away.

Panni · « **Reply #205 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:27:30 PM »

Good. I see George (not dead people).

Panni · « **Reply #206 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:35:10 PM »

Just took wonderdog out for maybe 20 seconds. We got soaked.

Panni · « **Reply #207 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:35:49 PM »

Why is everyone so silent?

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #208 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:39:29 PM »

Quote from: Panni on February 25, 2004, 11:12:20 PM

But surely not in a woven turtleneck?

Generally not. The accepted attire for cruising the abandon warehouses on the East Side was jeans and T-Shirts in summer, Flannel shirts in winter. You wore no jewelry carried a billfold with only a dollar or two and no ID - you stuck your ID and the rest of your bills in your shoe. The wharfs were pretty risky, but there were plenty of private clubs and back-room bars that provided a similar ambiance without the attentent risks (see International Stud).

JoseSPiano · « **Reply #209 on:** February 25, 2004, 11:41:05 PM »

"Lex!... The flowers!"

"We forgot about the flowers."

"Stay with me..."

"You bet."

Goodnight.

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Author Topic: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? (Read 42609 times)