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[Jrand73]

The Rhythm of Life actually put a tingle in your fingers AND a tingle in your feet!

[William E. Lurie]

Okay you "American Idol" fans---
I have never seen (or had any desire to see) this show, but I've seen so much hype recently for a new series starring "American Idol's Ryan Seacreast" I have a couple of questions.  I know that a woman named Kelly and a brillo pad named Justin won the first season; and a Teddybear named Rueben and a restyled nerd named Clay won the second... so which season was this Ryan in and was he third or further down the list.  What kind of music does he sing?  Is he any good and if he is why do you think he was not one of the winners?

[S. Woody White]

... Ah, "The stuff that dreams are made of", indeed.  And if you've not seen the classic MALTESE FALCON, you'll not get the reference.

Actually, having confessed to not having seen The Maltese Falcon (or, I think that's one of the films I've confessed to), I can say that the quote and the circumstances surrounding it are sufficiently known.  Good story, if sad.

[S. Woody White]

Pogue: I did a Randy Graff sings Cy Coleman album, some of which is terrific, some not so (Miss Graff, however, is always great)...It's still a good album, sometimes a great album, but it could have been a great album all the way.

BK, I've always been a little afraid of saying what you've just said, but I'm very much in agreement with you.  She was and is the perfect choice to sing his songs, however.  

One thing that has always puzzled me was the choice of "SeeSaw" as the final cut.  Not the song itself, but the version that opens the show of the same name as opposed to the closing (and more optimistic) version.

As it happens, it was one of the discs I almost brought with us when der Brucer and I drove east.  It just barely didn't make the final cut.

[Jrand73]

I think Ryan Seacrest was one of the hosts of AI rather than a contestant, DRWEL.  He is a close personal friend of Mr Merv Griffin.

WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING

Ethel Merman story coming up....younger and more sensitive HHW'ers beware!


Robert Alton was at 20 Century Fox working on the dances for "There's No Business Like Show Business."  It involved all kinds of Irving Berlin music - and steps.

During one duet, Alton decided that Merman and her partner Dan Dailey would do a bit of a minuet.  He knew Ethel could do it having worked with her on Broadway.

"And this will be like in 'DuBarry Was A Lady',"  Alton said.  "Ethel, do you remember the minuet?"

Ethel never missed a pop of her gum and replied, "Honey, I don't even remember the men I f*&ked!"

[Dan-in-Toronto]

Ethel Merman was invited to the Jule Stynes for the Passover seder. She didn't know anything about seders, except that Jewish food was not to her liking. So on the way she had the cabbie stop at a deli, where she picked up a ham and cheese sandwich to eat at dinner.

[bk]

Ah, a tingle in the fingers AND the feet.  Now we know.

[Jrand73]

AND a jingle in Coleman's pocket!

[TCB]

Charles, that was quite a story.  Thank you for sharing it with us.

Favorite Coleman:

Pass Me By
Hey, Look Me Over
Where Am I Going
Something Better Than This
and Almost the entire score of SEESAW (He’s Good for Me,  Poor Everybody Else, Welcome to Holiday Inn, I’m Way Ahead)

I always loved the play TWO FOR THE SEESAW and I thought the musical version, SEESAW, was almost as good.  I was disappointed that the show was not more successful.  I finally decided that by the 70s, the whole married man / single woman affair idea was a little dated.  To think that the lawyer would have to drop the girlfriend or sacrifice his career was not the hot subject matter in 1973 that it had once been.  It is a shame, since it is such a nice show, and seeing Tommy Tune dancing "on point" while wearing clogs, is still one of my favorite theater memories.  Perhaps, if the producers and the creative team had really wanted to be daring, they would have changed the role of Gittel to Gil and thus made the show not only topical again, but perhaps even more powerful.

[Panni]

I just read that Spalding Gray is missing and had been in a deep depression before he disappeared.

[Dan-in-Toronto]

Had Laine Kazan (fired by Michael Bennett for being too zaftig; replaced by Michele Lee) opened in Seesaw, I wonder if her career would have taken off in a different direction. Or would she have still found herself playing the full-figured mama of Greek Wedding, My Favorite Year, St. Elsewhere, Beaches, etc.?

[Jrand73]

Shocking, disturbing news DR Panni!

[Panni]

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I have to say something... Not a criticism, just an observation, but I don't believe in "sharing" stories like the one DR Pogue told about Mary Astor, a once beautiful and beloved star. I do think that people - even celebrities - are entitled to privacy and dignity toward the end of their lives. God only knows what wrecks WE'LL be by then. I would hate to think that someone who came uninvited into my home would years later tell hundreds (and the way the Internet works - thousands) what the encounter was like. Now it's probably true that Miss Astor wouldn't give a flying f-k, but still...

[Jrand73]

Thanks DRtd!  I am more convinced than ever now that you (and Lanford Wilson) summed it up best in one sentence!

[Panni]

I'm going out now to get a dog license. (Before you go there -- for Abie, the wonderdog.)

[bk]

Um, Mr. Pogue was ASKED to recount the story, so he did.  I see no problem with that whatsoever.  

[S. Woody White]

...I always loved the play TWO FOR THE SEESAW and I thought the musical version, SEESAW, was almost as good.  I was disappointed that the show was not more successful.  I finally decided that by the 70s, the whole married man / single woman affair idea was a little dated.  To think that the lawyer would have to drop the girlfriend or sacrifice his career was not the hot subject matter in 1973 that it had once been.  It is a shame, since it is such a nice show, and seeing Tommy Tune dancing "on point" while wearing clogs, is still one of my favorite theater memories.  Perhaps, if the producers and the creative team had really wanted to be daring, they would have changed the role of Gittel to Gil and thus made the show not only topical again, but perhaps even more powerful.

1973 would have been too early for Gittel to be Gil for most audiences.  Heck, for almost all audiences.  As for the single woman/married man plotline, let's not forget that he's a man from the midwest, where things change m-u-c-h  m-o-r-e  s-l-o-w-l-y.

I recall reading that Dorothy Fields spent a great deal of time working on the show, which was her last, both on the writing and on the promoting of SeeSaw.

[Jrand73]

Strong words from DRPanni.  I guess I thought it was just an observation of circumstances and a glance at a person I (still) admire.  It is easy to imagine our idols sipping tea on lawn chairs in the Rolling Hills of retirement - reality is sometimes different, and I suppose if the receptionist had not given the guests permission and directions to the room, and tacit permission to visit, the results would have been more troublesome to me.  Dignity and privacy are important for all, but I do not think DR CHARLESPOGUE'S story makes any of us think less of Miss Mary Astor.

[Panni]

Um, Mr. Pogue was ASKED to recount the story, so he did.  I see no problem with that whatsoever.  

As I said, I was not criticizing, but stating a point of view. Mr. Pogue can do whatever he likes and I can have an opinion about it. But to specifically address what you said, bk, Mr. Pogue was the one who initially said that he had a Mary Astor story that he would one day tell.
I have lots of stories, so do you, I'm sure, that we won't repeat because, while amusing, they might be embarrassing or hurtful to someone who is no longer here to defend himself or herself.

[S. Woody White]

I can't agree with DR Panni on the Astor story.  For one thing, we've been sharing all sorts of stories about Ethel all day (well, so far), stories that may or may not be true.  Aren't these stories robbing her of her dignity just as much?

For another, it could have been any aged star from yesteryear that DR Charles told about.  The story would still have been touching.  That it was Astor, with the connecting "things that dreams are made of" quotation, makes it all the more poignant.

If anything, the story would make the basis for a damn good film, with the corollary "be careful what you wish for" as a sub-theme.

[Panni]

Strong words from DRPanni.

Again let me say that I don't think DR Pogue was doing anything horrible in recounting the tale. And of course I don't believe that fans of Mary Astor will suddenly stop being fans of the lady or think less of her because of it. I just happen to have very strong feelings about privacy. Which is more about me than about Mr. Pogue. But as this is a forum in which we are urged to say what we feel - I'm saying what I feel.

[Jrand73]

 

[Panni]

I can't agree with DR Panni on the Astor story.  For one thing, we've been sharing all sorts of stories about Ethel all day (well, so far), stories that may or may not be true.  Aren't these stories robbing her of her dignity just as much?.

Not in my opinion. The stories about Ethel are funny tales about a balsy woman who didn't give a shit about what people thought of her. They took place in public situations, not in her home as she was in her final years, close to death.

[Jennifer]

Okay you "American Idol" fans---
I have never seen (or had any desire to see) this show, but I've seen so much hype recently for a new series starring "American Idol's Ryan Seacreast" I have a couple of questions.  I know that a woman named Kelly and a brillo pad named Justin won the first season; and a Teddybear named Rueben and a restyled nerd named Clay won the second... so which season was this Ryan in and was he third or further down the list.  What kind of music does he sing?  Is he any good and if he is why do you think he was not one of the winners?

Ryan Seacrest was one of the two co-hosts in season one. And he became the sole host for season two. And he will be the host again next week when season three starts.

[bk]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.  It IS more about you, I'm afraid.  Just as you can have an opinion on Mr. Pogue's story, so we can have an opinion on your opinion.   Perhaps later I will recount the story of The Randy Vicar and Dirty Spigot.  We'll see what you have to say about THAT one.

[td]

Well, I would like to say that ALL of my favorite Cy songs can be heard in the terrific score for ON THE 20TH CENTURY.  Where to begin with that stunning piece of work?  It is indeed the ONE SHOW ALBUM which new friends are garunteed to receive as a gift from me!  I must've bought at least thirty cds of it whenever a new friend came my way.  I've yet to hear any disparging remarks from them about THAT score.

Also related to the TOD, wouldn't Mary Astor have made a terrific Letticia Primrose?

[td]

I'd like to hear the story of THE RANDY VICAR AND THE SCULLERY CREW.

[Ben]

BK to further answer your question from the other page which I don't think I did fully, I have read the notes from the previous days as well as the posts. I think when I said I read the notes, it sounded like I had just read today's notes but I have indeed read the past notes for the weekend. Now, I must go back and read all the posts and all the notes for the time from November 27 (approixmately) through about January 2nd or 3rd. I read the notes (for the most part) and some of the posts when I was on vacation (both in NY and England) but especially in England when my Internet time was limited, I didn't read all the posts. I must be current and aware of all that is going on around me, even if it has passed so I will return to the past, once a day perhaps, and read what has gone by.

[S. Woody White]

Not in my opinion. The stories about Ethel are funny tales about a balsy woman who didn't give a shit about what people thought of her. They took place in public situations, not in her home as she was in her final years, close to death.

Then as what point do we draw the line, between what is acceptable and what counts as trespassing?

I'm quite serious about this being an interesting story for film.  It needn't have Miss Astor as a character, or even be set in Hollywood.  Every community has it's beauties from days past, who have faded and become reclusive.  And every community has it's youths, who pursue the legends ignorant of the present reality.  If I were to write it, I wouldn't use the Hollywood setting at all.  But I would want to use the Maltese Falcon connection, for both the central quotation and the parallel with the older story of pursuing a treasure that doesn't exist.  The question of "trespass" in this case deepens the story.  

(And I have a feeling that if DRs Charles and Panni were to sit down and outline their versions of this tale, as a treatment for a screenplay, we'd come up with two strikingly different films!)

[Panni]

It IS more about you, I'm afraid.  Just as you can have an opinion on Mr. Pogue's story, so we can have an opinion on your opinion.   Perhaps later I will recount the story of The Randy Vicar and Dirty Spigot.  We'll see what you have to say about THAT one.

You don't have to be afraid, bk, because I ALREADY said it was more about me, so I won't send people over to hurt you. As for the Randy Vicar and the Dirty Spigot, I bet you don't know he visited Budapest (where he was known as Vicar Randy) - and I have stories that would make your hair curl.