Topic: THE FLOOR MEN (Read 29321 times)

Charles Pogue · « **Reply #60 on:** March 14, 2005, 08:55:59 AM »

Der Brucer, the IMDB has nothing to do with WGA writing credits and, as far as I know, in film there is no such thing as an official WGA "writiing consultant" credit. I don't believe there is such a WGA designation in TV credits either. the IMDB often uses PR material that is inaccurate before a film's release.

I know that Josh wrote several drafts few years back under the heavy direction and input of Spielberg. When I spoke to him about a month ago, it was still undetermined whether he'd get credit or not. I don't know whether the WGA arbitration process has happened or not. But if it has, and Mr. Friedman has been denied credit, it wouldn't be the first time this where one writer works long and hard on a project and
brings it to fruition and then the producers bring in a big star writer whose name they want on the film.

This habit of cavalierly throwing writers off scripts has nothing to do with Mr. Koepp, who I've met and respect and who refused to re-write me once.

Shortly after DRAGONHEART, a much-loved script by everybody at Universal was greenlit, the head of the studio got the bright idea that the story needed about a dozen funny lines to punch it up (This was the same studio head who crashed the first studio meeting on the script and the first thing out of his mouth was "Who's Chuck Pogue?" whereupon he began to lavish praise on me and the script, saying it was the best script the studio had.) Anyway, the Studio Head sent the script to David Koepp to give him those dozen lines. Koepp sent it back, saying, "You already have them." And that was effectively the end of any other writer coming on to punch up my script. I later had a chance to thank Mr. Koepp for his kindness at a WGA function.

But the abuse of replacing writers in this industry is why I was on WGA board for four years. I ran on a purely "creative rights" manifesto and was elected by a hefty margin. I won't be happy till screenwriters have the same power that our brethren in the Dramatist Guild do...no one can change a word without our permission.

TACITURN. I always like the taciturn hero Randy Scott played in his westerns.

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #61 on:** March 14, 2005, 08:56:51 AM »

Quote

One day God was looking down at Earth and saw all of the rascally behavior that was going on. He decided to send an angel down to Earth to check it out. When the angel returned, he told God, "Yes, it is bad on Earth; 95% are misbehaving and only 5% are not."

God thought for a moment and said, "Maybe I had better send down a second angel to get another opinion."

When this second angel returned he went to God and said, "Yes, it's true!
The Earth is in decline; 95% are misbehaving, but... 5% are being good."

God was not pleased. So He decided to E-mail the 5% that were good, because He wanted to encourage them, you know... give them a little something to help them keep going.

Does anyone know what the EMail said?

der Brucer

PS Neither do I.

Charles Pogue · « **Reply #62 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:02:20 AM »

JRand54, I somewhat agree with you about Spielberg. He's real hit or miss for me. I think often certain ideas just become so bloated and overdone.

I do disagree about CLOSE ENCOUNTERS though. I think it may be Spielberg's best.

But I've never understood the craze over ET. It's perfectly okay, but I've seen it once...and once was enough.

I found AI to be perfectly wretched, likewise the bloated, overwrought, frenetic HOOK. I have a screener of MINORITY REPORT that I have never watched.

I suspect the last Spielberg I really enjoyed would be CATCH ME IF YOU CAN. I also thought it the best use of Leonardo De Caprio. One of the few adult roles I've bought him in.

vixmom · « **Reply #63 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:03:01 AM »

Now, if I was to make a grilled cheese sandwich I would probably just use white bread and american cheese slices or rye bread and cheddar slices..

but I bet Jose & DR SWW could come up with some nifty ways of turning a grilled cheese sandwich into a mouthwatering gourmet meal....

hmmm, three types of cheese, homemade whole wheat breads with herb butter, sliced portebello mushroom...

what do you say fellas.. I throw down a challenge (remembering I do not like tomato slices) create for me a wonderful grilled cheese sandwich recipe

JMK · « **Reply #64 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:04:25 AM »

TOD: Meadowlark, Spark of Creation, Magic to Do.

Magic Show DVD: it's hideous (IMHO). Not quite as bad as the William Katt Pippin, but close.

Watched the Harlow documentary on Dinner at Eight last night. Wow--that Carroll Baker movie was, how do you say, fictionalized!! Who knew?

JMK · « **Reply #65 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:05:54 AM »

G-d's email: You may have already won a BMW!!

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #66 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:06:35 AM »

Quote from: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 08:55:59 AM

I know that Josh wrote several drafts few years back under the heavy direction and input of Spielberg. When I spoke to him about a month ago, it was still undetermined whether he'd get credit or not. I don't know whether the WGA arbitration process has happened or not. But if it has, and Mr. Friedman has been denied credit, it wouldn't be the first time this where one writer works long and hard on a project and
brings it to fruition and then the producers bring in a big star writer whose name they want on the film.

Is there a way in the process to credit Mr. Friedman without reducing Mr. Koepp's promised rewards?

der Brucer (at least for original screenplays you have the "story by" out.)

? Could you get away with Screenplay by "A", Story by "B", based on the novel by "C".

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #67 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:12:39 AM »

Quote from: vixmom on March 14, 2005, 09:03:01 AM

but I bet Jose & DR SWW could come up with some nifty ways of turning a grilled cheese sandwich into a mouthwatering gourmet meal....

what do you say fellas.. I throw down a challenge (remembering I do not like tomato slices) create for me a wonderful grilled cheese sandwich recipe

Can I play?

1. Slice of Sour Dough bread spread with Mayo
2. Slice of American Cheese.
3. Slices of previously cooked crisp bacon
4. Slice of Swiss Cheese
5. Slice of Sour Dough bread spread with Dijon Mustard

Serve with tangy cole slaw and a nice crisp Kosher Dill.

der Brucer

PS You can substitute potato chips for the slaw.

Jrand74 · « **Reply #68 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:19:10 AM »

RE: CATCH ME IF YOU CAN - yes I enjoyed that movie (and the soundtrack) a lot. I thought Leo was well used by Mr Spielberg. As usual, anything I say about ANYTHING is just my opinion. I, too, am not known to be taciturn.

DR VIXMOM - one of the reasons I stopped teaching was because I loved the kids - but hated dealing with the parents....most of whom had the attitude displayed by the orchestra leader in your post!

Jrand74 · « **Reply #69 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:20:26 AM »

DR CP can correct me if I am wrong. I was under the opinion that there can only be three writer's names credited on any one script....and that different scriptwriters are seperated by "and" but two writers credited with an ampersand A & B - count as only one name.

Jrand74 · « **Reply #70 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:21:51 AM »

I - as a playwright - am constantly amazed at the number of actors and directors (and lighting technicians and stage managers) who all know exactly how to rewrite a script. This is particularly true with an original script being produced for the first or second time.

vixmom · « **Reply #71 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:25:59 AM »

Quote from: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 08:56:51 AM

Does anyone know what the EMail said?

der Brucer

PS Neither do I.

I think it got caught in my Spam filter!!

Charles Pogue · « **Reply #72 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:29:23 AM »

One might as well ask is there a way of rewarding Mr. Koepp without reducing Mr. Friedman's promised rewards?

But therein you have hit upon the whole problem of cavalier re-writing. Because in the guild process, credit is tied to back-end monies and residual/royalty dough, you often don't get real script doctoring and re-writing that is done purely to enhance and improve the script (and all of that is purely subjective anyway...it's usually some writer who manages to execute some dumb ass note of the producers or studio, not one who has improved the script in dramatic terms).

Mostly you get re-writers coming on, trying to re-write a large enough percentage of the script so that they can snare credit and get a cut of the back-end (at which point...the earlier writer's back-end gets cut...which is why I always angle for sole credit even if some re-writer has ruined my script...if I ain't getting artistic satisfaction, I'm damned well going to try and keep my financial satisfaction).

The best way to resolve this in my mind as always been first writer gets credit and everyone who comes after is anonymous script doctor there for the biggest fee he can negotiate, but he gets no back-end. At the very least, I think back-end monies should be untied to credit.

That way everyone knows what the score is going in, only necessary re-writes get done, and a guy can decide whether the fee is worth the work as an anonymous script doctor.

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #73 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:30:38 AM »

From the Most Irritating Headline Department:

Quote

Mario Drops Out of 'Idol'
Timberlake sing-alike and fan favorite cites personal reasons; castoff Nikko Smith gets second chance

Coming in 13 th in a nation-wide field of 1000s is hardly being "cast-off".

It's as bad as the "Jones Fails, has to settle for Olympic Silver" headlines.

der Brucer (off to fry a pound of bacon)

vixmom · « **Reply #74 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:34:43 AM »

Quote from: DERBRUCER on March 14, 2005, 09:12:39 AM

Can I play?

1. Slice of Sour Dough bread spread with Mayo
2. Slice of American Cheese.
3. Slices of previously cooked crisp bacon
4. Slice of Swiss Cheese
5. Slice of Sour Dough bread spread with Dijon Mustard

Serve with tangy cole slaw and a nice crisp Kosher Dill.

der Brucer

PS You can substitute potato chips for the slaw.

Um, sounds good, can I have BOTH chips and coleslaw

It's 12:30 I am going to lunch!!! Any one care to guess what I'm getting?

Charles Pogue · « **Reply #75 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:38:46 AM »

Jrand54, I think you're right about the number of credited writers. An ampersand denotes a "writing team" which counts as one writer, so technically, I guess you could have six credited writers.

I too am amazed at how everyone and his brother will tell the writer how to write. They wouldn't think of telling the electrician how to do his job...or the scenic designer...or the prop guy...or cameraman...but no one has a problem telling the writer how to do his.

George · « **Reply #76 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:40:31 AM »

Quote from: Matt H. on March 14, 2005, 08:08:10 AM

Speaking of "Lion Tamer," I've got sitting on my to-watch DVD shelf (more like a cabinet), the DVD of THE MAGIC SHOW that I've never watched. I need to put that in at some point this week.

Ummm....no you don't. Not really.

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #77 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:45:18 AM »

Our little discussion on screenwriting seems ti have prompted a large ad-by-google for the New York Film Academy's Screenwriting Courses - I surprised we didn't get one from the New York Association of Creative Artists Attorneys Inc.

der Brucer

bk · « **Reply #78 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:52:18 AM »

Whilst watching the various silly and badly done documentaries on The Terminal DVD, I was struck by one particular moment where Hanks and Spielberg are going on and on how one particular scene wasn't working and they stayed up quite late rewriting it and making it great. Now, my problem with this is - who do they think they are - and why, in all the months of script meetings and notes and preproduction and read-throughs did it not occur to these very same people that there was a problem with the scene in question. Why only the night before? This just smacks of why movies are so terrible today. Actors, of course, have run amok with power, and directors think they're better writers than the screenwriter. And yet, these same actors bow to certain writers - they worship at the altar of David Mamet and wouldn't think of changing a syllable of his (nor would he let them). When I watch classic films with classic scripts I wonder how many actors rewrote or improvised their dialog. Probably zero. And I think we'd have to agree that movies were, for the most part, better for it. Leave the writing to the writers.

George · « **Reply #79 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:53:42 AM »

These are just a few of the many Stephen Schwartz songs that I love (I think that most of these have already been mentioned):

Blame It On the Summer Night
Chanson
Crowded Island
Just Around the River Bend
In Whatever Time We Have
Life Goes On
Meadowlark
No Time At All
Out There
Spark of Creation
Stranger to the Rain
West End Avenue
What Is This Feeling
Where Is the Warmth?
I love "The Return of the Animals" instrumental in the second act!

bk · « **Reply #80 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:54:21 AM »

I've already been to Kinko's. Now I shall go buy a carry-on bag.

Charles Pogue · « **Reply #81 on:** March 14, 2005, 10:01:17 AM »

But you bring up another issue, BK. Which is simply the amount of bullshit, hype, and ego-driven lies that get told on these DVD extras. Usually the by the director, in attempt to promote and entrench the greatest French Farce since Feydeau...mainly, the auteur myth. They probably didn't stay up all night re-writing the scene at all. So many of the egos in Hollywood are like OJ Simpson...they've been telling the lies so long, they've actually started to believe them.

And,no, in the golden era of flm. There was no willy-nilly changing of script. They may have still used writers at times like tissue paper, but once that script was set, it was set. And directors were hred hands just like wrters. None of this auteur pretension.

Jrand74 · « **Reply #82 on:** March 14, 2005, 10:07:45 AM »

Quote from: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 09:38:46 AM

They wouldn't think of telling the electrician how to do his job...or the scenic designer...or the prop guy...or cameraman...but no one has a problem telling the writer how to do his.

DR CP finished my thought for me.

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #83 on:** March 14, 2005, 10:07:50 AM »

From the horses mouth: (From IMDB

Quote

The Writers Guild of America
The Writers Guild of America (WGA) has a well-defined process for determining credits on projects produced under its jurisdiction. These productions are generally USA-controlled live-action film and TV projects, produced either by studios or major independent producers. In 1999, the WGA began furnishing credits directly to IMDb. The absence of the WGA indicator on earlier credits should not be construed as a sign of unofficial status, merely a sign of age.

In general, the credits determination process works as follows:

When the film is finished shooting, the producer sends a notice to the guild and the writers proposing the writing credits. If any writer disagrees with those credits, or if the proposed credits require mandatory arbitration (e.g., a producer or director sharing a writing credit), a WGA arbitration committee reads all drafts of the script and various supporting materials and determines the actual/official credits.

If there is no source material (novel, play, article, etc.) and the same writers receive credit for both the story and screenplay, the credit is "written by".

The "story by" credit is used when the basic narrative structure was originally written with intent to be used for a movie (as opposed to a short story) and the actual screenplay had different authors. A shared "story by" credit is the minimum awarded to the author of an original screenplay.

If there was previously existing source material but the writer creates a substantially new and different story from the source, then the "screen story" (or "television story") credit is used.

Finally, the "screenplay by" (or "teleplay by") credit is used to denote the screenplay (teleplay) authorship if the story credit had to be separated as above.

In rare cases, "adaptation by" can be awarded to a writer who shapes the script without qualifying for one of the above credits.

There are other specialized credits used for television programs such as documentaries and audience participation shows.

Within each of these categories, members of a writing team are joined by "&"; teams or writers working on separate drafts are joined by "and".

The IMDb will not accept uncredited writers for titles with WGA-determined credits.

It seems one can get two bites at the apple:

The Terminal lists:

Quote

Writing credits (WGA)
Andrew Niccol (story) and
Sacha Gervasi (story)

Sacha Gervasi (screenplay) and
Jeff Nathanson (screenplay)

Which I suspect, gives Sacha double pay.

der Brucer

Jrand74 · « **Reply #84 on:** March 14, 2005, 10:08:42 AM »

Well I know that when Ginger Rogers arrived on the set and announced "There is something radically wrong with this scene..." it meant that she had been out dancing the night before and hadn't had a chance to learn her lines.

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #85 on:** March 14, 2005, 10:11:29 AM »

Quote from: Charles Pogue on March 14, 2005, 10:01:17 AM

And directors were hred hands just like wrters.

Would you say this to Hitchcock?

der Brucer

JoseSPiano · « **Reply #86 on:** March 14, 2005, 10:14:24 AM »

Good Afternoon!

I'm back... just for a sec.

My trip to the post office took a bit longer than expected. But since I ended up going at lunch time... Ah, well.. Not in a "rush" mood today, and the people watching was quite fun indeed! I especially adored the one man who kept asking to speak to the clerk's supervisor, and then went onto ask to see the clerk's mother! HA!

After I was done at the post office, I "realized" I had to take a bathroom break, and since the Marriott Marquis was about 120 blocks away, and the apartment only 5...

Plus, I had forgotten to put DR elmore's office number in my cell phone...

OK...

I'm off...

Laters...

JoseSPiano · « **Reply #87 on:** March 14, 2005, 10:15:17 AM »

OH!! After brunching with my friend, John, yesterday, I have to ask...

DR Rodzinksi - Do you like living in Canada?

JoseSPiano · « **Reply #88 on:** March 14, 2005, 10:15:42 AM »

Ciao for niao.

DERBRUCER · « **Reply #89 on:** March 14, 2005, 10:19:47 AM »

Tales from the You Can't Win department:

Quote

Furniture Flap
Norway's prime minister says Swedish furniture giant IKEA (search) is guilty of sex discrimination because its instruction manuals only depict men. IKEA never shows women assembling furniture and the prime minister says, "There's no justification for it." But an IKEA spokesman says that it has a strong presence in Muslim countries and that using women in instruction manuals could offend Islamic customers.

der Brucer

News:

Author Topic: THE FLOOR MEN (Read 29321 times)