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Author Topic: THOUGHT PROVOKING  (Read 23558 times)

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Ben

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2004, 10:13:08 AM »

Besides Donald's excellent interview with Rebecca Spencer on our own Radio Show there is another good interview with Kander and Ebb on BBC Radio 3 Stage and Screen. It's up today through next Monday.

Here's the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/stagescreen.shtml?focuswin

Regarding the posting of notes. I certainly enjoy seeing them up early, but since I'm at work when I see them for the first time, I don't always have the opportunity to respond right away. If it's easier for you, BK, to post them the next morning at around 9am your time, that's fine with me. We East Coasters will just continue posting to the previous days/nights notes.
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Charles Pogue

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2004, 10:21:46 AM »

William F. Orr...I've always spoken about my dealings fairly frankly and have never worried about libel or slander, for one simple reason...I always tell the truth or state my opinion as my opinion (You may have noticed in last night's post all the IMHO's, "I found", "I felt", "I thought"...).  I'm always on safe ground because I always have the facts to back me up and they know it.  And I also realize that some may view certain things in a different light, so I make sure it is my opinion being expressed in qualitative areas where a definitive proof or truth can't be arrived at.  

Frankly, this whole dispute on DRAGONHEART, played out very big in the local LA Times and various genre film magazines at the time.  Neither the producer nor the director got in it too deep with me, because they knew that everything I was saying was true and they also knew that I could go much deeper, if I had too...I tried to keep everything about the work, but if they had wanted to play dirty, I knew where all the bodies were buried.  In fact, at one time a labour rep at Universal called the WGA with claims from the producer of something about me that just wasn't true at all...Fortunately, I had a huge paper trail of faxes that disputed her intention and gave them to the guild.  She was caught in her lie.  The labour rep came back and said I could say anything I wanted to about the film.  But I also know they were spreading some pretty vicious calumny in other quarters ( I got it from the exec on the film who told me outright and remains a friend and both I and my press agent were told outright by the Universal PR people: "Don't tell us anything you're doing, because we have orders to squash it.")  I had the foresight to hire my own PR people...which I recommend any writer do...from about two/three months in advance of the film's opening through to two/three months after its release.  I won the PR wars, which was a rather pyhrric victory...since the film was diminished.  My battle in the press was what got me elected to the Board as a champion of writer's rights.

But everybody I respect and want to work with in this town shares exactly the same opinion of the director that I do. I remember having lunch with a very prominent writer/director/novelist who told me "I hate Rob Cohen and love telling people I hate Rob Cohen."   If you watch the commentary that BK did you can see this man's overweening ego.  

Unfortunately, petulant, insecure loathsome and self-loathing people thrive in this business all the time and like all petualnt, insecure loathsome and self-loathing people their self-hatred and insecurity manifests itself as bullying.  They can only make their own light shine brighter by trying to dim the light of others.

Another of my favourite fantasy writers is Thomas Burnett Swan, writer of such books as THE DAY OF THE MINOTAUR, QUEENS WALK IN DUST, HOW THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN, WHERE IS THE BIRD OF FIRE, all very poetic, gentle mythological fantasy...usually centering around dying falls...Here's the opening to one of his books:

" 'And you will wed your uncle, the priest of Melkart, as befits a princess of Tyre.'

"The words of her brother the king, inscribed on papyrus-thin ivory, screeched in her ears like a cry of marauding Harpies.  She, fifteen-year old Dido, to marry a plump, middle-aged man with a shaved head who collected babies for the belly of Baal and reeked in his shapeless robes of smoke and blood!"

Great writer...
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DERBRUCER

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2004, 10:25:26 AM »

Hypocracy, anyone?

An AP story reports:
Monday, March 08, 2004
 
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court refused Monday to hear an appeal from the Boy Scouts over what the organization claims is discrimination because of its policy against hiring gays.

The Scouts asked the justices to hear a case from Connecticut, where officials dropped the group from a list of charities that receive donations through a state employee payroll deduction plan.

That's unconstitutional discrimination, the Boy Scouts argued.

"To exclude the Boy Scouts from a forum based on their values they hold and the conduct they require of their members is to exclude Boy Scouts based on viewpoint and identity," lawyers for the Scouts argued in their Supreme Court appeal.


Now let me get this straight (pun intended)!

The Boy Scouts can ban atheists because of their viewpoint, and homosexuals because of their identity and presumed conduct; but society can not apply the same criteria to the Scouting organization itself.

der Brucer (assured that the lawyers made this case with a straight face)
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bk

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2004, 10:32:34 AM »

I, like Pogue, spoke out when Paramount was purposely killing Nudie Musical.  I was right, they were wrong.  Unfortunately, with that case, no one really cared.  Paramount was Paramount and I was nobody.  Still, even though it got me blacklisted for two years at ABC (the Laverne and Shirley connection - a show co-produced by Paramount and ABC) I probably wouldn't do it differently, even though I've said I would.  These people don't have the right to get away with the crap they get away with.  It's why I started this site - to combat the bs and lies that were being spread by certain people and guess what?  It worked perfectly.  The major sites came here, contacted me, and the truth made its way around the Internet.
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Dan (the Man)

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2004, 10:44:12 AM »

I’d like to add “The Secret Garden” to my list of fantasy favorites, unfortunately my only exposure to same was the Broadway show.

While I wouldn't catagorize it as a fantasy film, I would recommend that you check out the MGM version of The Secret Garden starring Margaret O'Brien.  It's shown occaisionally on Turner Classic Movies.  

I've been having a couple of hectic and stressful days here.  Everytime I thought I had found some time to sit down and post, something came along to pull me away.  So here is a belated Happy Birthday to DR Panni, some
[move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%]~~~~ G**D L*CK V*B*S!!! ~~~~[/move]
for her daughter R*ch*l (buy the gal a vowel!), and some
[move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%]~~~~ GET-WELL, GABE ~~~~[/move]
vibes to JMK's son.  And if there's anyone I missed:
[move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%]~~~~ VIBES FOR THE HELL OF IT ~~~~[/move]

I'll have to give the favorite fantasy movie/book/etc some more thought.  I'll hopefully get back on here later to post about those.
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Charles Pogue

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2004, 10:47:56 AM »

The other reason I could speak out with such impunity was that everything I said about the film was being echoed by all the major critics.  Everything I had been predicting for six months was exactly what cropped up in the reviews.  In fact, about a month before the film premiered, just because I was hearing no buzz about it, I confronted the Executive about it, "this thing is not going to perform up to expectations, is it?"  He admitted that that was the truth.  He also admitted to me (and he considers DRAGONHEART is greatest failure) that even if the director had been reined in and shot the script  exactly as written, he doubted that he could have found all the nuance and poetry in it, which is probably true.
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bk

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2004, 10:55:33 AM »

It's quite clear from the documentary that what Mr. Director was really interested in was the musculuture of the dragon.  It's all he talks about.  We seem a tape he made for the fx people where he demonstrates the musculuture.  We see his endless daily phone hookup to Italy or somewhre, where he's "directing" the people at ILM.  It's never about the story or the performances, just the dragon.   The film he was directing while doing the phone hookup?  Daylight, which, according to him, was going to be huge.  Cohen and Stallone.  Oops.
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Panni

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2004, 11:05:25 AM »

...Just got a call from one of the producers. He's ready to send the draft to the network. Now it the other two agree...
But it won't be until tomorrow. The suspense! (And for those who don't know what thehell I'm talking about, read the earlier posts...)
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Panni

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2004, 11:08:24 AM »

My favorite fantasy book is "The Joy of Gay Sex".

 ;D ;D ;D
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Jrand73

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2004, 11:14:12 AM »

Rise above it, DRPanni....  Have a cookie!
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.....you're alone.....and the feeling of loneliness is overpowering.

Jenny

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2004, 11:36:24 AM »

I'm so upset!  I just read that "Assassins" is delaying previews til March 31, and I have tickets for March 26th!  It's no problem for me to see it on another date, but...still.  Actually, DRs DerBrucer, SWoodyWhite, and Maya also have tickets for that evening!  This is very upsetting.  :'(
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Jenny

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2004, 11:39:02 AM »

On the flip side, I am pleased because I can access HHW from school!  Sondheim.com has been blocked on the school computers ever since I was caught reading a thread entitled "Is Bobby gay?" during math class.  >:(  I'm happy to see that HHW can distract me not only from chemistry homework, but from chemistry class too!
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"I am always thinking of myself, and I expect everyone else to do the same.  That is what is called sympathy." -Oscar Wilde

bk

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2004, 11:40:56 AM »

haineshisway.com should be required reading in every high school.
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Jrand73

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2004, 11:43:24 AM »

It's Turkey Lurkey Time!

Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle bells!
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Charles Pogue

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2004, 11:46:02 AM »

Hell, I just realized I'm tottering on the brink of divinity.  This is post 500, kiddies!
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George

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2004, 11:46:15 AM »

My favorite fantasy book is "The Joy of Gay Sex".

Sadly, it's mine too. ::) (I know, I know...TMI!)

Actually, "The Sword of Shannara" was one of my favorite books when I was in high school.

As for movies:
"Harry Potter and the first two movies"
"The Lord of the Rings Trilogy"
"The Princess Bride'
"Something Wicked This Way Comes"
"Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory"
"The Wizard of Oz"
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George

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2004, 11:46:42 AM »

Only 1 more DR CP!!
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Voldemort is basically a middle school girl: he has a locket, a diary, a tiara, a ring, and is completely obsessed with a teenage boy.

Charles Pogue

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2004, 11:47:04 AM »

And this is post 501...Ahhh!  Ah, yess!  I am imbued with the light!
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bk

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2004, 11:48:38 AM »

EXQUISITE LIGHT!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2004, 11:49:00 AM by bk »
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Jrand73

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2004, 11:49:51 AM »

[font="courier new"]Welcome to[/font]
New HHW GOD
CHARLES POGUE!
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George

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2004, 11:50:38 AM »

[move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%]WELCOME TO THE HEAVENS[/move]

[move=right,scroll,6,transparent,100%]DEAR READER AND NEWEST HHW GOD[/move]

[move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%]CHARLES POGUE!!![/move]
« Last Edit: March 08, 2004, 11:52:05 AM by George »
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Voldemort is basically a middle school girl: he has a locket, a diary, a tiara, a ring, and is completely obsessed with a teenage boy.

Ben

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2004, 11:57:49 AM »

Welcome DR Charles Pogue to our Heavenly place.

I don't remember who mentioned it this morning on page 1 but if you haven't seen The Back Page of the current issue of the New Yorker magazine, try and find it.  Studio Script Notes on The Passion, written by Steve Martin is HYSTERICAL (IMHO). There is a drawing of Jesus on Hollywood Boulevard putting his hands into cement . There is a bit about superpowers that had me laughing out loud! I don't know if there is a link to it on-line (I doubt it) but try and find it. I think you'll laugh a lot.
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Jay

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2004, 11:59:07 AM »

Ain't polytheism swell?
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Jrand73

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2004, 12:01:03 PM »

Is that like melmac, DRJay?
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.....you're alone.....and the feeling of loneliness is overpowering.

Charles Pogue

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2004, 12:05:45 PM »

...EXQUISITE LIGHT...Well, Mr. BK, I got the reference!  I'm touched!  Touched!  I tell you!
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Charles Pogue

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2004, 12:11:46 PM »

Actually, BK, your "exquisite light" reference (which is  the same in novel and script) brings to mind another bit that Cohen screwed up.  That horrendous voice-over by Gilbert the Priest at the end of the movie was written and tacked on by Cohen.  

My script (as in the novel) was bookend by a voice-over (not a voice-over in novel, of course) of Gilbert saying:  "This is a tale of a knight who slew a dragon and vanquished evil."  This was repeated at the end of the movie during the "exquisite light" moment (I had envisioned the screen going to white) and you now understood exactly what the phrase meant.  Little touches.  Little subtle touches.  All lost.
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Jrand73

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2004, 12:14:21 PM »

Well...I am off to rehearsal...the Artistic Director/Light Designer is coming in to see Act One tonight.  I told him it ran 69 minutes and he thought that was a big long....but he is in for a BIG suprise because it has been running consistently at 72 minutes!

Pray for Rose Marie's baby.  A Dick Van Dyke reference!
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Jrand73

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2004, 12:16:04 PM »

I remembered your admonition in the second act, HHW GOD CHARLES POGUE....there is some sadness in the second act but NO SELF PITY!!!
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MBarnum

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2004, 12:19:05 PM »

Forgot a few fantasy films, you may add to my list the following:

MARCH OF THE WOODEN SOLDIERS
MIRACLE ON 34TH STREET
and any number of the Italian Hercules films of the 50s/60s...especially those with monsters and dragons!

Couldn't think of any fantasy books that are favorites. I have read some good sci-fi books, but the closest I could come to fantasy books would be some of the Raggedy Ann and Andy books.
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MBarnum

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Re:THOUGHT PROVOKING
« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2004, 12:19:32 PM »

...and welcome new God DR Charles Pogue!!!
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