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Author Topic: KNOCK ON WOOD  (Read 46406 times)

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Panni

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2004, 01:59:15 PM »

I'm saying hello so we can finally move on to page three...
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Panni

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2004, 02:01:31 PM »




                    .....And we did.


 [move=left,scroll,6,transparent,100%] 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) [/move]
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Charles Pogue

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2004, 02:13:58 PM »

Take two boxes of kleenex.  But what people don't understand is that...to critique a screenplay in detail, takes a lot of work.  To give you an example, last fall I got coerced into doing for an undergraduate at my alma mater in the theatre department.  I sat down and talked to the kid before I promised to read anything just to make sure he was serious and then pretty much gave him the speech/warning I posted above.  I spent probably a day and half on it.  That's a lot of valuable time for me.  His script was a sea of black with my marginal notes scrawled everywhere...not one page was unblemished, I believe.   But they were very specific notes...not only about what was wrong, why it was wrong, with possible suggestions on how to fix it.  I started with his cover letter.  It took up a fifth of a page.  My notes on just it took up the remaining four/fifths.
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elmore3003

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2004, 02:22:24 PM »

It depends on many things...
One would be what exactly is neant by "mentor in a small way."
Two would be if the person has any talent. I hate to sound so black and white about this, but quite a few times (before I said I won't do this ever again) I found myself in a situation where it was obvious that no matter what I imparted to the would-be-writer, it didn't matter because they were never ever going to write a decent screenplay.

DR Panni, I once taught orchestration to a "composer" who's constant response to my questions was "that's how I want it."  I still don't know why he wanted my advice or expertise because I could tell him why you'll never hear a solo flute over 3 trumpets, 4 horns, 3 trombnes and a tuba and he didn't seem to care.  Once I realized nothing I said mattered, I decided to take as much money as I could and prayed he'd get bored with my advice.  I did and he did.  Thank God!
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"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats" - Albert Schweitzer

MBarnum

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2004, 02:24:13 PM »

DRMBARNUM what movies did you watch last night - that you didn't get to pick?

LOL! Actually I did end up picking the movie. We watched THE TRIP (2003). Ron really liked it and I thought it was sort of OK. Jill St. John was great in it and so were some of the other actors.

Enjoy the show JRand53! And of course we will want a report on it tomorrow!
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Charles Pogue

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2004, 02:43:51 PM »

elmore, I find most people seeking advice, just want validation...not any useful suggestion that might help their work.  One of my comments to people who always are asking, "who should I get feed back from to find out if my script is ready to send out?"  is that if you don't know whether it's ready or not, chances are it isn't.

My watch-cry has always been: "A professional knows when he's done good work."  That doesn't mean it can't be improved or someone might not contribute an idea or thought that one might want to enfold into the work, but one should know when the work has reached a professional standard of quality.

Jane, Janet Greek on my first script was very helpful.  I knew I had a good script.  She made a couple of suggestions that I agreed with, I executed them in a couple of days and she took that script to my first agent (She's more generous in this respect than I am...or maybe I was that "one writer" for her that she knew couldn't damage her credibility by submitting him).  But SHE asked to read the script; I didn't ask her...which to me is the point.  Anyone who wants to read my scripts can, but I am not soliciting opinions.  I don't release a piece of work to be read by anyone unless I am confident in the work.


Pogue's Four Rules of Screenwriting:

The first two are my scatological rules:

1) Life is too short to write shit.

2) Life is too short to work with assholes (which is where most of the shit comes from)

Now the first one I can always do something about.  The second one, sometimes you're just in too deep before you realize someone's an asshole.

3) Never write down to where you think the audience is, always write up to where you aspire them (and you) to be.  (I always try to write to the "highest" common denominator, not the lowest).

4) When you write for the stupidiest person in the room, crawl in your coffin; you're dead already.

I believe in an audience of one.  I write to please myself first.  Because if I can't please myself, who the Hell else is going to care?  I also dont believe you can anticipate an audience.  You don't know who the audience is for something until you present it to them.  Those that respond are its audience.
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bk

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2004, 03:02:30 PM »

I agree with it all.  Unfortunately, we are not living in a world where screenwriters care about such things.  They care only for the easiest route to a green light.

That was the thing with the Kritzer books - I wrote what I wanted to write in the way I wanted to write it and I didn't care if anyone liked it or not (if they did, that was a bonus, a treat, a wonderful addition) - my muse on them, Margaret, was my right arm, book-wise.  She simply encouraged, had a few comments on very occasional occasions (they were always right and easy to address) and would not let me change anything that hurt the voice of the books (when the people who were helping me proof would have suggestions that I wasn't sure about).
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bk

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2004, 03:02:45 PM »

Now, where in tarnation IS everyone?
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Jane

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2004, 03:09:13 PM »

Charles Pogue, I guess the second box of kleenix would be for the cover letter. :D

The work and detail you put into the critiquing the student is admirable.  I do hope the student learned and appreciated what you did.  I have seen Keith spend hours doing research for people, never to be thanked for his efforts.

As for your Rules of Screenwriting-LOL.
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Jane

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2004, 03:17:31 PM »

Echo is pouting as I walked without her this morning.  I walked with, the first, Ashland MS walk.  It was fun too since I went with my Wednesday hiking group.  My hairdresser and her sister (both have MS) organized the event.

It has been threatening rain all day but since the sun is still shining I shall take her out for a short one.  
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Panni

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #70 on: April 17, 2004, 03:29:30 PM »

3) Never write down to where you think the audience is, always write up to where you aspire them (and you) to be.  (I always try to write to the "highest" common denominator, not the lowest). to them.  Those that respond are its audience.

Here's where we differ somewhat. I never think about writing to an audience - highest or lowest brow. Let me revise that -- I'm aware generally of the potential audience for a piece, but I still write - as you said earlier - to please myself. I try to honor the characters and give them the truest possible voices for who they are. I maintain that the audience will follow you anywhere if you're being honest (and interesting).
This has gotten me into trouble on occasion. Once (fairly recently) with a certain studio I shall not name (think rodents) where they called in a "tweener specialist" to revise my script so it would have more of a "tweener voice." The English translation of this is that the main character in my screenplay - who was described in every draft as a very mature kid - one whose "voice" was not that of the typical teen (think our Jenny, for example) sounded too intelligent. The fact that not every kid of a certain age sounds like every other kid of a certain age was pointed out - but this fell on deaf ears - pointy ones. So the script has been shot, tweened up (or down) and Life goes on.
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Panni

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #71 on: April 17, 2004, 03:41:29 PM »

I agree with it all.  Unfortunately, we are not living in a world where screenwriters care about such things.  They care only for the easiest route to a green light.

I don't think that's a totally fair statement, bk. FS Pogue has talked many times about movies he has written which had wonderful scripts and became less than stellar movies. And let me tell you, he's not alone in Hollywood with that story. (Read my previous post for example - which I wrote before seeing your statement.) I would say the majority of screenwriters care very much. It's the studio/network executives, however, the people with the ultimate power about what goes on screen, who care mainly about the easiest route to getting the most money from the public. So they make assumptions about the public's taste (sadly, they often can't sink low enough) and want movies to conform to that and that alone.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2004, 03:43:52 PM by Panni »
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bk

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2004, 04:06:04 PM »

I'm not talking about you and Pogue, Panni.  I think my statement is fairly obvious - general yes, but applicable to about ninety percent of the jokers writing scripts today.  I also disagree that if you're honest with your characters that an audience will follow you anywhere.  Audiences, by their nature, are fickle beasts - and something that they spurn today might be thought of (by those SAME people) as a classic ten years from now.  Conversely, something they thought was the ginchiest could be (to those SAME people) total crap ten years from now.
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Panni

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2004, 04:22:56 PM »

I'm not talking about you and Pogue, Panni.
I knew that and I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you were. Why in the world would I think that you'd say that about us? You know us - and our work - too well to say we don't care. I was  just using FS Pogue as an example, as we've all read what he's had to say about what happened to his work on several occasions. The point I was making is that he's not alone. I don't think that the majority of writers are just in it to make a buck. Very often the crap we see on the screen is not the writer's fault. That's not what s/he wrote!
As for the audience following you - if you write it well, they will come...  What you say is true - but I think that what I say is also true. Not in every case for either one. Yes, the audience is fickle and sometimes moronic. But you put something really truly good in front of them and - not always, but often - they will find it and appreciate it. ...At least I need to believe that or I'd become a plumber.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2004, 04:26:38 PM by Panni »
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Panni

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2004, 04:24:28 PM »

And may I ask... Where in TARNATION is everyone???
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Jane

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #75 on: April 17, 2004, 04:39:17 PM »

the main character in my screenplay - who was described in every draft as a very mature kid - one whose "voice" was not that of the typical teen (think our Jenny, for example) sounded too intelligent. The fact that not every kid of a certain age sounds like every other kid of a certain age was pointed out - but this fell on deaf ears - pointy ones. So the script has been shot, tweened up (or down) and Life goes on.

What a shame.  So often it's that  "voice" which makes the charactor special and the story better for it.  In spite of the change I hope you are pleased with the end result.
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Jennifer

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #76 on: April 17, 2004, 04:45:32 PM »

Good evening everyone!

Well I am here (I just wrote I was here).  Geez, well I was here briefly for a few minutes a couple of hours ago.  But my head was throbbing.  So I just caught up on the posts and went to lie down.

Luckily by the time I got to lying down, my head was much better.  It's amazing what two Motrin can do.
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Jane

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #77 on: April 17, 2004, 04:49:13 PM »

Jennifer, sure glad the Motrin worked. :D
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S. Woody White

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2004, 04:53:27 PM »

Der Brucer and I are back, fully noshed and resplendantly exhausted.

We started out fairly early, because der B. had read about a food tasting at a curio/gourmet shoppe called Indian Nickle.  The tasting was for a line of peanut butter products called Peanut Better, and for the most part they were exactly that.  Good peanut butter, not overly pasturized or processed, and loaded with other flavors.  We ended up purchasing three jars; Dark Chocolate (think Reese's with more savvy); Thai Ginger & Chilis; and Rosemary Garlic.

Yes, folks, this is peanut butter.

After, der Brucer wanted to head down to the Boardwalk, so I walked back to the car, deposited our purchases, and met him while he was perusing the menus of some of the eateries.  He was having to conceal his laughter over the menu at the Camel's Hump, a Middle-Eastern place that should have someone spell-checking their printed materials.  Along with the Baba Ganoush, Falafel, Shish Kebab, and the like was the following:

Homos: We are famous for this dip of hand-ground chick peas, tahina, fresh pounded garlic, roasted herbs and spices.

Further down on the Appetizer section was this:

Combination: A bed of homos with 4 falafel, artichoke heart, 2 dulma, feta cheese, and olives.

By this time we were both biting our tongues.  Onwards.
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There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do.

Jennifer

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #79 on: April 17, 2004, 05:02:11 PM »

Very busy day.  Went shopping at 9am.  Drove downtown and stood in line to get tix for the french mega musical Don Juan.  Went to another mall.  Ate.  Shopped.  Went to Club Price.  And came home exhausted at 5pm.

Interesting gathering for the Don Juan tix.  It's hard to predict how long the lines will be at the theatre when the tickets go on sale at noon.  This is only for the extension.  But I've been a couple of times for Notre Dame de Paris where the line-ups were around the block and hundreds long.

This time there were only 15 others there at 11:15am. By noon there were maybe 30 more.

It was actually very fun chatting with the other people in the line.  Reminds me a lot of waiting for rush tix in NYC.
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S. Woody White

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #80 on: April 17, 2004, 05:07:37 PM »

We went on down to the Boardwalk, which was almost crowded.  Why not, it's a lovely Spring day, nice and warm, and places are opening up for business.  We went beyond where the buildings are lined up, trying to figure out exactly where Poodle Beach (the gay stretch) is located, but everyone was blending in with everyone else, very Rehoboth.

There were lots of dogs with their owners, or are they called the owned?  Two lovely brindle Great Danes named Duchess and Lacy greeted us, as did a long-haired Collie named Baxter, with one of the waggingest tails I've ever seen.  Der Brucer's face was well washed today.

Most of the restaurants in town are open now, at least for part of the week.  We found a Japanese restaurant that der Brucer thought he might be willing to try called the Cultured Pearl, and a place called the Ram's Head Tavern that had a sign in the window specifying that they do not have a children's menu (so take a hint, folks).  Eventually, we made it back to the car, with der B. admitting that he was in the mood to try the Mexican restaurant over on Highway One.

And that's why we're stuffed and sated.  Los Tolteca has good, authentic Mexican food...well, really TexMex, but much better flavored than the other joint we've tried in town.  The margaritas tasted of fresh lime juice, not Rose's.  The spices in the meats had been allowed to simmer and blend, not dumped in and given a quick stir.  Tortillas tasted of corn, salsas tasted of tomatoes, chilis and cilantro.  The rice was right! (and that means something, because der Brucer is picky about rice).

I'm in the mood to just lie down and take a siesta, even if the sun has already gone down.  What the heck, a siesta it is!
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There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do.

Jennifer

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #81 on: April 17, 2004, 05:15:26 PM »

Jennifer, sure glad the Motrin worked. :D

Actually, you have no idea.  I probably should have taken something stronger.  But the Motrin usually works for me.

I get very scared whenever I have a severe headache, because a few years ago I had one that turned to a migraine. And when I went to the clinic they wouldn't give me anything.

They sent me to the hospital across the street, and they rushed me by ambulance to a downtown hospital.

I have no idea what kind of meds they gave me.  But it was really scary.  They kept me in the hospital for days.  And I actually had a lot of trouble reading and writing.  I could not even remember how to say the name of my University.

About two days after the night I was brought in, they had a student doctor trying to test me on my reading. And I knew I couldn't read some of the bigger words.  But I didn't think that she was paying that much attention.  So I outsmarted her by just skipping the words I could not say.  Probably not that smart, but I wanted out of there.

It is actually quite scary to think about it now. I know my sister was freaking out when I couldn't read.

The absolute worst part though was the morning after I arrived. I still didn't have a room (I was stationed in the hallway on meds).  The doctor came by to test me and he brought a whole crew of students.  He basically humiliated me.

He was testing me with math problems.  And it was so frustrating because I could almost figure them out. But not quite. And I felt so stupid that I couldn't.

Although the questions were actually a little difficult.  I remember he asked me something like 28X6 (with a few others steps). And I can remember wanting to do 30X6 (and then take away 2x6). But my mind couldn't quite do it.

All I remember him saying was that someone of my intelligence should be able to do the problems.  But he never made me feel better or encouraged me.  And he never said that it was okay or that I would get better.  He just made me feel stupid in front of all of his students.

Anyhow it was quite weird, and they never found out what had happened (even though they gave me MRIs and the like).  My doc just figured it was a really bad migraine.

Now go figure, that was what I told the doc at the original clinic I went to. If he had given me the migraine meds right away that I had requested, probably none of the rest would have happened.



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bk

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #82 on: April 17, 2004, 05:16:57 PM »

Watching Star.  A sharp but very brown transfer, very disappointing.  People don't seem to see these brown transfers but you must trust me - it's fading and all you need to do is look at the skin tones to know how off it is.  Easily fixable if anybody had a brain and/or cared.  Sound is good.  The movie, as always, is not very good but has some decent things in it.  It's a bargain-priced DVD but I'd rather it be ten bucks more and right, frankly.

Now, where in tarnation IS everyone.
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Jennifer

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #83 on: April 17, 2004, 05:18:28 PM »

Okay we need to get page four.
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DearReaderLaura

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #84 on: April 17, 2004, 05:22:39 PM »

Just got back from the tour of "Hairspray." Very fun.

Scary about the migraine, Jennifer. I couldn't do a math problem in my head even without a headache.
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Panni

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #85 on: April 17, 2004, 05:27:09 PM »

A scary story, Jennifer. The only good part is that exactly the same thing would have happened in the U.S. - except you would have had a bill for $5000. (probably more) on top of the useless and humiliating experience.
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Jennifer

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #86 on: April 17, 2004, 05:30:35 PM »

Just got back from the tour of "Hairspray." Very fun.

Scary about the migraine, Jennifer. I couldn't do a math problem in my head even without a headache.

And this doctor didn't even know me!  Why the heck was making the problem so hard?  There were like 3 parts to it!

He was almost taunting me.  That's what made me mad.

And he didn't even realize how close I was coming to solving it.  I mean I knew what I wanted to do.  But my mind couldn't do it.

It was much scarier though not being able to read or write.
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Panni

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #87 on: April 17, 2004, 05:31:42 PM »

Come to think of it - a lot more than $5000. An ambulance, tests, a couple of days in the hospital. Way over $5000!
Last year I fainted  (the first and only time in my life) - at the Humane Society of all places -  was taken by ambulance to the hospital, given a lot of tests and sent home within a few hours. I have insurance through the Writers Guild, luckily. But the bill came to over $2000. - so think of what your little experience would have cost.
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Jennifer

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #88 on: April 17, 2004, 05:32:42 PM »

A scary story, Jennifer. The only good part is that exactly the same thing would have happened in the U.S. - except you would have had a bill for $5000. (probably more) on top of the useless and humiliating experience.

Yeah tell me about it.

It cost me nothing.
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Panni

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Re:KNOCK ON WOOD
« Reply #89 on: April 17, 2004, 05:36:27 PM »

I think you had a sadistic doctor, Jennifer. Like the dentist in LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS. IMHO anyone who makes you do three-part math problems while you're lying in the hallway of a hospital is KRAZY.
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